Alittle confused? "Options" given at a hospital birth - Page 3

[Twinklefae]

Originally Posted by Annie37

This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!! :

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to say that you should talk to your doctor about this BEFORE you are in labour. I got official permission to eat and a "if they have a problem with that tell them to call me"

Granted, I didn't eat much, and didn't want to eat much, but I had permission! (I tend to be hypoglycemic, so this was an important issue for me!)

[herbsgirl]

Originally Posted by Quindin

I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly. The max. I was allowed to have was a bit of red juice for the sugar kick, but that was it! I really doubt any hospital in US allows food. My last labour was the only one I had after eating well (I ordered ribs and fries) and it was AMAZING how wonderfully I was able to cope! I highly recommend it to anyone! My midwife at the birth center just said: "you don't send a farmer to the fields after ice chips!

ETA - On my hospital birth in the US, they lied, threatened and scared me in order to get me to do everything they wanted. It was amazing at how low they would go to get me to comply. Just one of the reasons why I am praying I will never put my feet in a hospital to give birth again!

My hospital allows food!!!!! I live in WIsconsin, USA. I told my doctor how hungry I was, and she agreed to let me eat. I had GD, so letting my sugar get too low was not an option either. I ate a tuna/egg sandwhich. I felt better too!

My hospital is very small, with only two rooms in L&D and I have to sign a paper at the beginning of the pregnancy stating that I know it is more risk to deliver at this hospital because it takes the Surgeon 20 minutes to get there in case of an emergency C section. Both times I gave birth there, I had wonderful expereinces for the most part. I was not forced into anything. The only complaint I have mostly is that the nursing assistant took my son and washed him up in the nursery, and I wanted him with me. Next time I will DEMAND that he not be taken from the room unless I or my husband is with the baby unless there is major emergency or something. He was with me most of the time after that.

I wrote out a birth plan, and they really honered it for the most part. I was able to spend most of the time on the floor with the birth ball, walking or in the shower, and I was able to bond with my baby and breastfeed for a while, they delayed the newborn procedures. I am now thinking about delayed cord cutting is a good idea too!

[Romana]

eveblac. You might want to visit the Disappointing or Traumatic Birth Experiences tribe in FYT: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656215

Originally Posted by hubris

Another thing to consider: some women are really compliant during labor/birth. I'm one of those women. I really wanted to stand/squat to give birth to my second child. I was standing and laboring effectively (from my point of view) next to the bed and starting to push uncoached when my water broke. Suddenly everybody was breaking down the bed, trying to get me into the bed (in the lithotomy position), wanting a fetal monitor on me. None of it was what I really wanted, but I went along with it. Laborland is like that for me. Yeah, I could have said NO, but I didn't. My DH even tried to tell them I didn't want to do it that way, and I told him it was ok and shushed him! The staff wasn't forcing anything on me, they were just doing things they way they're used to doing them, and from their point of view, I willingly went along with it.

Labor makes me a less assertive person. Yeah, I had options, and could have fought for them, but I didn't because I wasn't capable of doing so in that moment.

Wow. I could have written that. Every word of it, even to the part of dh trying to get them to stop and me saying it was fine . . . and I don't even remember doing that. This is what scares me most about birthing attended again - losing my autonomy. Losing my ability to assert myself, even in small ways. <gulp>

[barefootpoetry]

*sigh* This thread dredged up so many rotten memories for me. Not once was I ever "asked" if such-and-such was okay, rather, they either ANNOUNCED it to me as it was being done, or used suggestible language to coerce me into doing it. "We're going to give you Pitocin to make your contractions more effecient." "We're breaking your water now." "Oh you've been in pain for soooo long, you should get an epidural to help you progress." When I did manage to assert myself, like suggesting that my bed be cranked up so I wouldn't be laying flat on my back, or asking for real water instead of stupid ice chips, they chided me as if I was being a naughty child. And then the grand finale when they decided my perfectly normal pelvis was "misshapen" and the word "C-section" was announced without a word to me about what I'd like to do. I just buried my face in my hands and cried while they scurried about prepping me. I wasn't even a person to them - I was just another womb on the assembly line in the baby factory.

And yes, I'd like to agree with all the women that as nice as it would be to stamp your foot and firmly state, "I DO NOT CONSENT!" every time a staff member comes toward you, it doesn't always work that way. I was ashamed of how vulnerable and suggestable I was during labor. I went in with plans for a natural birth, and wound up getting railroaded into every intervention in the book because I roll over like a meek puppy dog when I'm in labor. Hospital staffs KNOW this. They deliberately use language that takes advantage of your compromised state of being so you will comply with what THEY want. Just another one of thousands of reasons why this next one is being born at home!

No woman should have to fend off malicious people during her birth. That'd be like expecting to have intimate lovemaking with your husband while dozens of people barge into your house and knock on your bedroom door and walk in and out asking questions and pestering you the entire time.

[accountclosed3]

i don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but because the child is a citizen of the state, the hospital can become guardian ad litum, the parent determined to be incapacitated mentally (due to the fragile emotional/intellectual state of a birthing woman), and thereby the hospital administration can make the decisions.

a quick call to a judge makes this pretty easy. if a woman refuses too adamantly, if the "you'll kill/harm your baby" speech doesn't work, then the hospital admin can call the judge, and take over guardianship of the baby as a ward during the birth, call the shots, and then hand custody back over to the parents after the birth.

sometimes, i recommend taking a lawyer with you to the hospital, rather than a doula.

[Ironica]

Originally Posted by Annie37

I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor?

I don't know about "most hospitals." Obviously, from this thread, you can see that some still do, some don't, and some encourage and facilitate eating and drinking during labor.

The hospital where I had my son (where I'll have this baby, unless it turns out that they really will transfer my care for turning down the GTT... have to double-check on that when the office reopens next week), they don't provide any food to the laboring mom, but they have no rules against it, and have a mini-fridge in the LDR rooms. I was there for 48 hours when we had our son (BEFORE his birth... another 72 afterward), and once, when I was asking DH to get me something to eat, the nurse said something like, "It might not be a good idea to eat right now, because if we do blah soon, you'll be more likely to throw up." I think "blah" was "get an epidural," but I'm not positive. I just said, "Thanks, I'm willing to risk that," and that was the end of it.

But there's another hospital 20 minutes away from that one that STILL has a no food or drink policy... to the point that, even if the doctor disagrees, he has to tiptoe around it and do his best not to "know" about it if one of his patients breaks that rule (or he could lose privileges).

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by notjustmamie

Just some other scenarios to consider.

There's also the "you're in the middle of a contraction and can't talk, so even though you clearly stated that you don't want a c-section, we're just going to slip in an IV/put in your catheter, wheel you down the hallway while you can't talk" phenomenon...

[Fyrestorm]

You might be right, but your baby could still be in foster care wearing disposable diapers with a stomach full of formula. Sometimes you have to be canny and avoid people who will cause that kind of trouble for you.

Kiley

This was the case for me...I refused everything during my HB transfer. They got court orders for everything and had the judge inform me that if I didn't consent to a section (completely unnecessary) that CPS would take custody of my DD as soon as she was born.

I think they are all regretting their lies now!! (several lost their jobs and/or positions and others just lost a whole lot of $$$)

[Momma Aimee]

There's also the "you're in the middle of a contraction and can't talk, so even though you clearly stated that you don't want a c-section, we're just going to slip in an IV/put in your catheter, wheel you down the hallway while you can't talk" phenomenon...

?????

I could talk even in transition and even in pushing --

????

[mommyddeville]

When I had my daughter, the doctor entered the room right before DD was going to be born. He was the "on call" doctor, so I'd never met him. I told him that I wasn't ready to push, and that I didn't want an episiotomy. Well, all the nurses held my feet up and told me to push. I tried a few times, and nothing was happening. So the doctor was getting impatient, and got the scissors to do an episiotomy. I SCREAMED, "NO! I don't need an episiotomy." He did it anyway, and I could feel it. . . it was worse than delivering my daughter. Then, afterwards, he did stitches without any pain relief either.

After my daughter was born, a neonatologist came into the room and looked at my daughter and said, "She looks small. Let's take her upstairs (to the NICU) for monitoring. I again SCREAMED, "No. She's fine. You took my first baby up there and it took 5 days for you to let him out. Don't take her." I was hysterical. I'm crying even typing this 15 months later. They do NOT abide by your wishes at all. I'm pregnant again, and I'm not having another hospital birth. I've suffered from horrible PPD and physical difficulties both times, and I can't help but think they were caused by the stress and bad judgments of the hospital.

[Ironica]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

?????

I could talk even in transition and even in pushing --

????

So could my mom. But then, she had dysmenhorrea, and had had menstrual cramps worse than labor.

One of the usual criteria for determining how far along in labor a woman is is whether she can talk through a contraction. This test (like pretty much any test) is not valid for all women, but works for most women. IOW, most women who are well into active labor cannot talk during a contraction.

[Astoria]

I had my first at a teaching hospital. I had midwives and they had separate policies (patients of the midwives were allowed food, showers, only periodic monitoring -- all other patients were not), so I thought I'd be fine. I was educated. Committed to natural childbirth. Not the whole story but some of the bad things:

-- at least 6 different people did internal exams when they were making the c-section decision. a doctor was teaching his student's what poor positioning and arrested descent and another of other things "feels" like. I didn't know I could say no or tell them all to leave. I had a c-section with a baby that never entered the birth canal but the vaginal pain lasted for 6 months.

-- I was given a spinal for the section that numbed me from the waist up. I told them I couldn't breath and they said, sure you can. Then I took a final breath, mentally believed I was dying, and blacked out. They quickly put me under general and put me on a ventilator. Suffocation nightmares for years.

-- When trying to come out of the anesthesia with no idea what had happened to me or my baby, I begged the nurse I saw doing paperwork near the end of my bed to hold my hand. I thought if I could hold something I could will myself to wake up. She said, "oh you're fine" and literally sneered at me. I lost consciousness again for another 45 minutes or so.

-- I begged everyone I saw from the moment I woke to let me see my baby. I didn't see him for 6 hours after waking, 9 after his birth. I spent all these hours begging everyone. A pediatrican came to see me to report on him and I screamed "I haven't even seen his face yet." He said, "oh, you will, he's cute." Even when I got to the same floor, out of recovery, all the paperwork filled out, begging to see him, the nurse did all her rounds before bringing him to me -- bathed, bottle fed, swaddled, and sound asleep.

-- A nurse told me that I was too pale skinned to breast feed. When I had trouble she repeatedly told me it would always hurt like hell cause of my thin, white skin.

-- Another nurse tried repeatedly to put him on the circumcision line and yelled threats to me when I refused about how filthy and disgusting that is and how he'd always resent me.

-- No one let me eat or encouraged me to stand up for days. I didn't know I needed to. I got weaker and more bloated. It was painful and horrible. The breastfeeding was astoundingly painful, I was starving and on morphine, and I caved to all sorts of weird interventions.

I suffered depression and had difficulty bonding after his birth.

[Kitten]

Haven't had time to read the rest of this thread yet. We are having a homebirth but our transfer hospital has a waiver form that you sign on admission (and I don't think they typically send it to you ahead of time like the preadmission insurance forms). It says in the form that by signing this form you consent to any treatment the hospital staff/ doctors feel is necessary. Not many women in labor are going to carefully read this sort of thing or think about what it might mean.

http://www.stmarysmadison.com/intern...df?openelement


However, it is perfectly legal to alter this sort of document to say that you do NOT consent to whatever treatment medical staff feel is necessary, and then legally they are *supposed* to get your permission for everything.

[guest9921]

ot- You rock kitten!

Birthing in the next...Oh, few days - and st.marys is my backup.
I didn't even know you could find this form online.

[Kitten]

I love digging up all kinds of stuff. I should be working for an attorney or a P.I., LOL.

[wannabe]

Quindin, I've birthed at two US hospitals, neither of which had any issue with what I ate or drank provided I wasn't anaesthetised.

To the OP - blanket refusal is a risky approach. Interventions can save lives, so who knows if you're refusing something that's needed? Far better to have a good sensible care provider who won't suggest anything unless its needed.

Someone upthread said you should have an empowered birth where you make all the decisions, but I can't check my baby's heart tones during transition, I can't recognize distress due to a compressed cord, and I can't fix my own shoulder dystocia. That's why I have a midwife who knows this stuff, who knows when she has to step in and get me up off the floor so she can see to untangle the cord or get me to push much harder and faster than I would othewise have done. Or even to cut an episiotomy, which rarely can make the difference of a few seconds to a baby who NEEDS those few seconds.

[southernmommie]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Quindin, I've birthed at two US hospitals, neither of which had any issue with what I ate or drank provided I wasn't anaesthetised.

To the OP - blanket refusal is a risky approach. Interventions can save lives, so who knows if you're refusing something that's needed? Far better to have a good sensible care provider who won't suggest anything unless its needed.

Someone upthread said you should have an empowered birth where you make all the decisions, but I can't check my baby's heart tones during transition, I can't recognize distress due to a compressed cord, and I can't fix my own shoulder dystocia. That's why I have a midwife who knows this stuff, who knows when she has to step in and get me up off the floor so she can see to untangle the cord or get me to push much harder and faster than I would othewise have done. Or even to cut an episiotomy, which rarely can make the difference of a few seconds to a baby who NEEDS those few seconds.

This is why the majority of the people on this board, or at least on the UC board, do this research. They know what they need to do in cases of emergency. However, an episiotomy is not an emergency. You don't need to check heart tones during transistion. The cord can be untangled by someone not licensed by the medical establishment also. So this isn't an emergency either. I think a little bit of research would be appropriate before this kind of response. That was the whole point of the comment of the "empowered birth". Empowered does NOT mean uneducated. Quite the opposite actually.

[Seie]

Originally Posted by Quindin

I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly.

I have given birth in a Danish hospital twice. The first time I volunteered - the second time I transferred from a UC where my baby was malpositioned.

The first time we had brought tons of chocolate bisquits and coke and noone had any objections to that. The second time I asked for something to eat and my midwife suggested chocolate..

Unfortunately even in Denmark the hospitals are not nearly as babyfriendly as they used to be. We are low on staff - not enough midwifes- so everyone is working with too many women at the same time, resulting in us moving rapidly in the US-direction :cry C-sections are on the rise and so is the number of women who come through feeling traumatised. And as a result of that more women are requesting elective c-secs Talk about a bad spiral of events.

[Kitten]

Blanket anything is a risky approach, and that definitely includes blanket consent. Anything a care provider does is legally covered then, and they can then later say that you agreed to anything they wanted to do. Think about that, anything. That is scary.

It only takes a few seconds to get verbal consent and a good sensible care provider should not mind asking. If I am unable to give consent for whatever reason then my husband certainly can. I am not going to sign away my rights to make my own decisions.

And you don't know our backup hospital either. It isn't exactly progressive. So no, I'm not going to sign a piece of paper handing over my rights. I don't think that the OBs will be out to get me or that OBs are evil people. But their best interests and my best interests are not necessarily going to be one and the same.

[sweetsensation]

I couldn't read through all the posts before replying here so pardon me if I repeat anything that has already been said.........
My first two were born at home, exactly how I wanted. But my third was born in a birth care center affiliated with a hospital. I am a very strong and opinionated person and know exactly what I want. Even though we had an OB who was completely hands-off and on board with everything I wanted and didn't want, absolutely NO intervention whatsover and allowance to do whatever I wanted (ie: dim lights, walk around, eat and drink at my leisure, birth in whatever position I want) it did not happen that way at all. I didn't even have any internal exams at all and really didn't want any when I got to the BC, but I gave in to ONE. They have a way of making you feel incompetent and not know what your body is doing (and I am VERY in tune with my body). I had a doula and my mom and dh, but my doc didn't show up right away because the nurses did not believe that I was so far along (they go off of dilation apparently, and less than 20 minutes before I crowned I was at 5 cm). Then the nurses called some intern in from the hall to assist, although my birth plan specifically opposes this. She would not allow me to birth in the position I wanted and forced me into a one of those cheap recliners while the baby's head was crowning. I ended up flat on my back.

To make a long horrific story short, the birth was extremely traumatizing to me and my dd. the control was completly taken away from me after the baby was born too.
Afterward, I know I could have told the intern to get out, I could have been more forceful and aggressive. The thruth is, though, that most of us are just concentrating on birthing that baby and focused inward. We expect those around us to take care of us but instead they take advantage of our vulnerability. I had read and heard all about these things happening, but I really did not believe they would happen to me.
Just know that no matter how well you plan and no matter how you want to birth, things don't always work out that way. Complications may arise and those around you just might decide to do things [I]their[I] way. This may be okay for you, but it may not. My experience may not be as horrible as compared to so many that I have heard. However, it was very traumatic to me and I can totally tell a differnce in my dd compared to my other two.
This experience is definately the #1 reason I am having a UC this time around and will never, never willingly go back there or to a hospital to have a baby!