Please dont hate me!

[Manfa]

But why does everyone seem to hate supernanny on this board???? I know next to nothing about this woman except shes known for making the naughty spot famous!

Is there's a PM facility? If so I would appreciate being sent any responses privately because I get the impression this might be a HOT topic and I don't want to be thought to be stirring the pot. Thanks, and sorry if this is a forbidden topic!

[ThreeBeans]

I am actually not one who 'hates' "Supernanny". I disagree with many of her theories, to be sure. But I think that she often does a lot of good in extremely troubled families. She speaks strongly against hitting children, and she encourages parents to connect with and be close to their children, and speak TO them and not AT them.


She's not an AP proponent, I don't think, but she speaks against child hitting, and speaks FOR respect, and I appreciate that.

[alegna]

Ummm.... "naughty" spot?

A child does not need to be told they're naughty or bad.

-Angela

[thismama]

LOL at this post! Welcome to MDC.

I don't hate Supernanny, at least not most of her. I think she sets really good respectful boundaries with some seriously out of control children.

However, it pains me to see her eroding attachment relationships between parents and children. She makes children put themselves to bed, give up nursing, give up suckies and attachment rituals with parents. This IMO is horrible, and her downfall. Attachment relationships are the glue in families IMO, they provide a context for the boundary setting she does and help children feel loved, included, and part of a circle of people who love each other.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by alegna

Ummm.... "naughty" spot?

A child does not need to be told they're naughty or bad.

-Angela

That is British culture though. I know some Brits, my girlie's dad is British and so is my ex long term girlfriend. I don't think "Naughty Spot" in Britain is as hardcore as we would imagine, with children being shamed and berated. It's more their equivalent of a time out.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by thismama

That is British culture though. I know some Brits, my girlie's dad is British and so is my ex long term girlfriend. I don't think "Naughty Spot" in Britain is as hardcore as we would imagine, with children being shamed and berated. It's more their equivalent of a time out.

I agree that it is probably very common place. But further shaming or not aside, I still have a problem telling a child they're naughty. They tend to live up to expectations of that sort....

-Angela

[thismama]

Originally Posted by alegna

I agree that it is probably very common place. But further shaming or not aside, I still have a problem telling a child they're naughty. They tend to live up to expectations of that sort....

-Angela

Mebbe. I think a lot can be conveyed in tone though. I think there is a difference between telling a child they *are* naughty, vs. saying a behaviour is naughty, so when you do it you go to the naughty spot.

I wouldn't personally use it, but I don't find it so outrageously offensive as many American ppl on here seem to.

[Hazelnut]

I haven't seen it much, but she didn't really bother me. The kids were usually um, challenging, and so I don't think reward charts and time out stools are a bad thing when you are really in dire straits. I only dislike them when they are an immediate default for any disobedience. As far as I can see she never yells and is obviously against spanking.

The one thing I didn't like was how I thought she was on a couple occasions patronizing to the parents. Was it supernanny or nanny 911 where she put down the mom for nursing the toddler? I didn't actually see it though- just the promos which were edited to be way controversial.

[CaraNicole]

i love the show supernanny! i do not agree w/everything she does, but i doubt i *could* agree w/anyone on *every little thing* ykwim?

[GuildJenn]

I can tell you why I don't like these "reality" shows in general (includes home deco/reno).

Even though we all know they are fantasy, I think they still give the impression that problems can be solved in a weekend, or a week. Supernanny comes in and she changes three things and suddenly the family is blissfully happy! In 48 hours you can redo a kitchen!

The thing is that it really is fantasy. Real change, real parenting, real home ownership even, is more complicated than that - full of ups and downs and quite often without such clear cut solutions or easy fixes. I think when we fill our minds with these shows we often start to judge ourselves or others overly harshly. And then we feel out of control and we are not free to really apply our energy to - fully living, which is complex, full of starts and stops and steps forwards and backwards, and messy. MESSY I tell you!

That's my answer.

[Manfa]

Originally Posted by thismama

That is British culture though. I know some Brits, my girlie's dad is British and so is my ex long term girlfriend. I don't think "Naughty Spot" in Britain is as hardcore as we would imagine, with children being shamed and berated. It's more their equivalent of a time out.

Thats about right. And actually hardly ANY of the parents I know do Naughty Spot OR "time out". So its not THAT widespread. Also its not really about telling the child THEY are naughty.... its about telling them their ACTION was nuaghty, and that actions have a consequence. For instance; "You had to sit on the naughty step because you did X" not, you had to sit on the naughty step because YOU are naughty. There is emphasis on ezplaining WHAT they did and WHY they shouldnt have done it and they are encouraged to apologize for it.

[Manfa]

Originally Posted by thismama

However, it pains me to see her eroding attachment relationships between parents and children. She makes children put themselves to bed, give up nursing, give up suckies and attachment rituals with parents. This IMO is horrible, and her downfall. Attachment relationships are the glue in families IMO, they provide a context for the boundary setting she does and help children feel loved, included, and part of a circle of people who love each other.

I'm curious... in what ways does she do this specifically?

[Hazelnut]

Actually I'll take naughty over "bad" any day, which I here all the time here in the U.S. People say that young kids can't distinguish between "that action was bad" and "you are bad." Fair enough, but I think the tone used will also convey the former, and I think naughty is semantically more tied into behavior. Bad is just plain bad to the bone!

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Manfa

I'm curious... in what ways does she do this specifically?

Weaning a young toddler off a bottle. Halting co-sleeping. Having a mama wean a toddler from nursing. Stopping long bedtime rituals that involve the parents reading to the children, laying down with them, talking with them about their day.

In many shows, both the parents *and* children are upset by these things and actively protest them. But Supernanny holds firm and everyone gives in.

This is a theme with the Supernanny shows, not a one-off.

[Manfa]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I can tell you why I don't like these "reality" shows in general (includes home deco/reno).

Even though we all know they are fantasy, I think they still give the impression that problems can be solved in a weekend, or a week. Supernanny comes in and she changes three things and suddenly the family is blissfully happy! In 48 hours you can redo a kitchen!

I don't like reality tv shows either, partly for this reason. And that is precisely why I didn't really know much about S/nanny!!

What I did see when I saw a bit of her on tv was the way she put down the parents.... I don't like the format of shows lkike that. Desperate family/couple on the brink of despair, along comes the pro and tells them they are doing it all wrong on national TV, a little bot of common sense and one week later et voila!!!!! Erm, yeah ok. I kind of think its a bit sick that some people enjoy watching that kind of put down to be honest, it puts me right off, so I probably end up missing out on good info...

[Manfa]

Originally Posted by thismama

Weaning a young toddler off a bottle. Halting co-sleeping. Having a mama wean a toddler from nursing. Stopping long bedtime rituals that involve the parents reading to the children, laying down with them, talking with them about their day.

In many shows, both the parents *and* children are upset by these things and actively protest them. But Supernanny holds firm and everyone gives in.

This is a theme with the Supernanny shows, not a one-off.

Our parenting culture is sooooo different over here! 'i find none of those changes particularly shocking or disturbing. i suspect they were harder for the parents to implement than the kids tho.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Manfa

i suspect they were harder for the parents to implement than the kids tho.

I vehemently disagree. I think we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better. Watch the crying, protesting, confused children who don't understand why suddenly their attachment rituals are being denied, and tell me it is easy for them.

It's not. At least the adults have some philosophy to cling to. And they are controlling the changes. And they are... well, the adults. Not dependent children.

[Manfa]

Originally Posted by thismama

I vehemently disagree. I think we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better. Watch the crying, protesting, confused children who don't understand why suddenly their attachment rituals are being denied, and tell me it is easy for them.

It's not. At least the adults have some philosophy to cling to. And they are controlling the changes. And they are... well, the adults. Not dependent children.

You could be right.

I don't know though, I think if you are looking at the kids like miniature adults I believe this is a mistaken view. If an adult was doing those kinds of things you would imagine they were suffering terrible bereavement. However, I genuinely don't think children doing those things are suffering that level of distress. They simply don't HAVE the philosophy to cling to, the ability to rationalise or control or express their emotions as effectively as adults.

I distinctly remember the first time I was left at playgroup I thought I would NEVER see my mum again. I wailed and wailed and threw the biggest tantrum of my life. Do you know within 5 minutes I was making hand prints and painting with the rest of the children, all tears gone. No it WASN'T easy. No it wasn't nice. But life isn't! At what point do you learn that? IMO kids can be more reslilient and adaptable than many people give them credit for.

[Janelovesmax]

There was one episode that I hated. I think you all know which one I'm talking about, where she told a mother not to nurse her 14months old on demand especially when those two were not connected as is.
In general, there are some situations where Supernanny does good, but in general she is not pro AP.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Manfa

If an adult was doing those kinds of things you would imagine they were suffering terrible bereavement. However, I genuinely don't think children doing those things are suffering that level of distress. They simply don't HAVE the philosophy to cling to, the ability to rationalise or control or express their emotions as effectively as adults.

What does this mean? Children still have emotions. They still have feelings. Attachment relationships are essential to children's emotional growth and development. This is an attachment parenting site, that belief is kind of core to the ideology here.

No it WASN'T easy. No it wasn't nice. But life isn't! At what point do you learn that? IMO kids can be more reslilient and adaptable than many people give them credit for.

I don't believe that "Well life is not fair" is an appropriate rationalization for disrespectful parenting strategies that undermine attachment relationships.

I don't think "life isn't nice" is a factual statement. And I don't think it is parents' responsibility to teach that subjective lesson. In many ways, life is what you make it, kwim? And the things we cannot control are... well, things we cannot control.

I don't go banging my head into walls because life includes pain. And I do not harm my children in the name of "well life isn't nice anyway, children are resillient." There is enough for them to bounce back from that we cannot control. Let's not impose more trauma.