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Please dont hate me! - Page 5

post #81 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperbee View Post
From what I've seen it's not the frantic screaming of a baby that doesn't know that it's mother exists when he cannot see her, it's the frustrated cries of an over tired child that doesn't want to go to bed and is dealing with a big change in what's expected from bedtime. I would agree that infants wouldn't benefit from CIO but I'm fine with the techniques I've seen for bedtime.
I'm not clear on how CIO for toddlers or older children meshes with attachment parenting.

Shutting down communication (verbally and physically--aside from hualing the child to bed) seems like the antithesis of meeting emotional needs. When a child is calling out, "Mamamamammamamamamma...." and sobbing and the mother won't look at the kid? How is that in line with AP?
post #82 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaomisMommy View Post
I personally do not have a problem with SN. A lot of what she does is common sense which several of the families on the show seem to be lacking. My thing is that you have to find what works for your FAMILY. If something is "working" for the kids but not the parents, then something ELSE needs to be found. It's a balance. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
:

BTW..great name

I also agree with BumperBee...The kids are usually overtired and stubborn with the change of rules. I don't see anything wrong with it either.
post #83 of 105
Everyone has a different parenting philosophy that works for their family and may not work for someone else, which is something everyone can agree on!

Anyway, I have seen the show and I acually like it. I did see the episode where she had the mother wean her daughter because it was "disrupting the normal functions of the home" or something like that. I didn't agree with that part, but I did agree with weaning the child from the bottle (my own reasons there that I'd be happy to share, but that's for a different thread!) She does good and bad, but I think most of what she does is very constructive. In homes as chaotic as the ones she visits some of the family members are bound to be upset. She is very big on explaining WHY some actions are inappopriate rather than taking the "because I said so" approach that too many parents take these days. And when she is able to give the parents tools for bonding with their children rather than arguing, I think everyone ends up being a little better off.
post #84 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Ummm.... "naughty" spot?

A child does not need to be told they're naughty or bad.

-Angela
I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that ITA about the naughty spot. Also, I think the naughty spot is a cop-out for times when you should be working things through with your child. JMHO. Ask me again when my challenging DD2 is older But in my experience, there's never been anything I couldn't work through WITH my girls.
post #85 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissel View Post
I haven't read all the responses, but wanted to say that ITA about the naughty spot. Also, I think the naughty spot is a cop-out for times when you should be working things through with your child. JMHO. Ask me again when my challenging DD2 is older But in my experience, there's never been anything I couldn't work through WITH my girls.
I think the "naughty spot" is one thing that she does that really bugs me. It's usually done in a very punitive way and seems to be a matter of breaking the child down until they realize it's totally futile to fight it and give in to sit for however long. Having said that, we have used time-outs on occassion for particularly troubling behavior (hitting) and it has worked in a short amount of time and it's over. Time out is not used as a threat and it's hardly even referred to or used in our home. It is reserved for a major offense where safety becomes an issue.

I watched a recent show and she really focused on bonding and connecting with the kids and I think that is great. I really think she probably does more to help than hurt these families. The one I saw last actually helped me with an idea...she had the mother put together a collage with a picture of her son and loving words all around it...she was to go there and look at that when she is so focused on the behavior and not the child...so that she can tap into the love for him and operate from that place. I loved that idea! I am going to put a collage together of pictures of my boy and have that to look at when his behavior is driving me nuts...I think just that reframe alone helps to view the situation from a more loving place.
post #86 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampangel View Post
I think the "naughty spot" is one thing that she does that really bugs me. It's usually done in a very punitive way and seems to be a matter of breaking the child down until they realize it's totally futile to fight it and give in to sit for however long.
Yeah, this is more what I mean. One of the few shows that I watched (probably the last one, I was so bothered by it) involved a 4-ish y.o. boy (other kids too, but he was the one who got the naughty spot) who would run wild to get his mom's attention while she was cooking dinner, and SN showed the mom how to repeatedly put him in the naughty spot until he cried hysterically and finally stayed there. Um, he was DESPERATE for his mother's attention! There are a MILLION ways to keep him with you and involve him in what you're doing while you cook dinner. Ugh. Someone posted about how SN's answer to almost everything seems to be detachment, and while it may not be true for every issue (I will admit she does help most of the families, because they ARE so far gone), it bothers me so much I can't really see past it!
post #87 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by TirzhaZ View Post
Everyone has a different parenting philosophy that works for their family and may not work for someone else, which is something everyone can agree on! ...
Pffft....not around here I find....:
post #88 of 105
While I enjoy watching SN, I tend to disagree with her methods, specifically time-outs and reward charts. I think there is definitely too much focus on behaviorism. It shouldn't be about making the child do what you want them to do, but about meeting their needs so they will want to behave in a socially appropriate manner. I think that often SN forgets about meeting the children's needs. Specifically there was this one episode where the family had four girls. The oldest was diabled and required a lot of attention, including mom doing therapy with her four times a day. During that time the youngest two (4yo and 6yo I think) were expected to play alone and not bother them at all. To me this was not a developmentally appropriate expectation and the children were clearly acting out as a means of getting attention. Even the second oldest daughter was exhibiting rebellious teenager behavior to get attention. Basically the house revolved around the daughter with the disabilty and never once was it suggested that the other children might need more time and attention. It really upset me. She actually did help the rebellious daughter form a closer relationship with her father, but the younger two were just given Time-out if they interuppted the mother during therapy sessions. SN never tried to find a way for the children to be involved or to get mom some extra help so that she wasn't always doing therapy and ignoring the other children.
post #89 of 105
I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.
post #90 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.

yes this was exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it much better.
post #91 of 105
Personally, I think SuperNanny and Nanny911 are great. Why? Because they may be the first steps MANY parents take toward a more gentle approach in parenting.

I know that's how I came about looking into gentle parenting. The Nannies comfirmed what I had felt from the beginning. Spanking is not necessary. I used some of their approaches, and when some of them didn't work, I looked for other approaches.. and found GP.
post #92 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMandy View Post
Personally, I think SuperNanny and Nanny911 are great. Why? Because they may be the first steps MANY parents take toward a more gentle approach in parenting.

I know that's how I came about looking into gentle parenting. The Nannies comfirmed what I had felt from the beginning. Spanking is not necessary. I used some of their approaches, and when some of them didn't work, I looked for other approaches.. and found GP.
Yes, I think it probably gets people thinking about their parenting, which is a good thing. Everyone is moving through this journey in varying ways and I'm sure these shows are very helpful to a lot of people. Obviously they are also designed for ratings and what not, but I think folks who spank and yell probably glean a lot of good information from it.
post #93 of 105
I think AislinCarys sums up the situations they show pretty well. The kids and families are mostly in too much disaray and they need to be calmed to the point where the idea of AP and gentle discpline can actually be "heard" by both the kids and the adults. Time-out doesn't need to be the end all be all solution but it is most likely needed as a starting point so that things can come under control.

Also, no one seems to remember that the families that are shown are never saying "oh we love the 3 hour bedtime drama rituals and the sleepless nights we have with the kids in our bed" The parents are asking for these things to stop. If the parents do not want to co-sleep anymore than really how much benefit is there?

Maggie
post #94 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by dianamerrell View Post

a Quote, that my mama brain will not let me remember:
Children act as they are treated.
I think you're thinking of "Children Learn What They Live," which is the title of a poem my Mom had on a poster hanging on the back of a door in my house growing up. Here's the full text - http://www.empowermentresources.com/...g_version.html
post #95 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9m9m9 View Post
Also, no one seems to remember that the families that are shown are never saying "oh we love the 3 hour bedtime drama rituals and the sleepless nights we have with the kids in our bed" The parents are asking for these things to stop. If the parents do not want to co-sleep anymore than really how much benefit is there?
No, on Nanny 911 and Supernanny there have been a number of mothers who were not interested in disolving the family bed. And they were shamed and threatened by the nannnies. :
post #96 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
LOL at this post! Welcome to MDC.

I don't hate Supernanny, at least not most of her. I think she sets really good respectful boundaries with some seriously out of control children.

However, it pains me to see her eroding attachment relationships between parents and children. She makes children put themselves to bed, give up nursing, give up suckies and attachment rituals with parents. This IMO is horrible, and her downfall. Attachment relationships are the glue in families IMO, they provide a context for the boundary setting she does and help children feel loved, included, and part of a circle of people who love each other.
I agree with this. I definitely respect her ability to teach parents to help guide their children in a loving way....but I also dislike her erosion of AP.

Is there a middle ground for this, though?
post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinkerbell View Post
I agree with this. I definitely respect her ability to teach parents to help guide their children in a loving way....but I also dislike her erosion of AP.

Is there a middle ground for this, though?
Well, I definitely think guiding children and setting boundaries is AP.

I think the problem arises for Supernanny, however, b/c she seems to have a basic "mistrust" of children's motives and behavior. She's not interested in discovering underlying needs by and large. So that ranges from the breastfeeding, co-sleeping infant to the lashing out 10 yr. old. Because she is focused on the behavior, that's the part she's setting out solutions for. It's almost always about curbing behavior, and rarely about finding out what is driving it or giving the child the benefit of the doubt. She doesn't trust that the child is doing the best they can or acting out some other issue.

So she might be "gentle" in that she promotes alternatives to hitting, the emotional responsiveness part of AP is hugely lacking. And honestly, given the choice betw. an unresponsive parent physically putting a child on a naughty spot over and over for hours on end, and a parent who spanks in a truly, "This is hurting me more than it hurts you," way.....I don't know....I think the former is actually worse. :
post #98 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
I've seen this show and every in episode I've personally seen, the problem is not the fault of the kids. The kids might be acting out, but the original problem is:

1. Kids very closely spaced together, and often multiples or a child with a disability, so kids are having trouble getting enough attention each
2. One of the parents isn't giving enough support
3. Both parents working without adequate thought as to how to make sure kids' needs are met
4. Parents having unrealistic expectations - such as that kids will go to bed and stay in bed at 7:30 or something

So, rather than taking care of the underlying problem (which seems to be often getting more support in - having a grandparent there every day for a few hours, hiring a mother's helper and/or housecleaner, etc.) they try to train the kids to tolerate a bad situation.
So true. And they even mention it at the beginning of the shows, like "Their dad died last month and mom is now a single mom of 5 kids." - I think something like that was on the last episode of SN - but instead of getting counseling for them or mother's helper, she sticks the kids in the naughty spot! It doesn't address the problem at all!
post #99 of 105
I dislike Suppernanny for all the reasons listed. But also because, before I had my son, I was a (live-out) nanny for about ten years for several different families. And let me tell you, I did a COMPLETE turnaround in my childrearing philosophy after I had my son.

As a nanny, I felt strongly that children should do as they were told just because they were told to. It's not that I wasn't loving/caring/silly with them; I just really felt that I was in charge and if I said go to sleep, they needed to go to sleep. I got this from my parents, sadly.

Now...I am so incredibly connected with my son that I try to see things from his point of view. I have more realistic expectations for him. I'm much better at finding ways for him to "help" me so I can get things done around the house but still have him feel included (I never really had this issue as a nanny). I'm just more patient and loving...even though I would have said I was patient and loving before.

You really can't understand what having a child is like until you have your own. So I bristle a bit at Supernanny acting as though she knows it all when she has no children of her own.
post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
No, on Nanny 911 and Supernanny there have been a number of mothers who were not interested in disolving the family bed. And they were shamed and threatened by the nannnies. :
Co-sleeping is a very nice arrangement if it benefits the parents and the child but that is not what the situation is on these shows.

I have watched many episodes where the mom is complaining about "co-sleeping." Also, many of the families are not really co-sleeping per se. The parents are just lying down with the kids in thier kid's beds and rooms(and are uncomfortable) bc they have to and have no other methods for getting them to sleep its not a case of the parents really wanting to co- sleep.

I have seen many express sadness that "co-sleeping" is ending but I think that is probably a natural reaction. Just becuase one is sad that a phase is ending does not mean they do not want it to end or need it to end.

The families never seem to be saying at the end of the show that they have terrible regrets over it and are unhappy with the established bedtime routines. And in fact, they can all go back to their previous arrangement at the end of the week if they want after the show has done filming. Why is it so hard to understand that the family bed may need to be disolved in some situations? It just doesn't work for everyone.


Maggie
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