Yet another neighbor problem!! - Page 3

[boysrus]

that is what I meant

[charmander]

Well, okay then. Now we are on the same page.

(I even have a leash for my cats, although we've never used it because they really only want to hang out in the backyard.)

[nicole lisa]

Originally Posted by charmander

I don't think you could find a law in any state in the US banning cats from being outside. :

That smilie comes across as so insulting. It very rarely makes the person quoted feel good about further contributing to the dialogue.

First, not everyone posting here is in the US. Second, if you have a cat which never leaves your property while outside than the law doesn't apply to you. The law is about cats off their owners property and this thread is about cats off their owner's property.

[HarperRose]

I still think it's ridiculous to expect a cat to stay on it's owners property. No cat I've ever known has EVER been trainable the way a dog has.

[InfoisPower]

IMO that particular "right" is violating my right.... what is the point of owning property if every thing I do turns into a threat to have something taken away from me? My cats rarely leave the property...

If your cats leave your property and get trapped on your neighbour's property, they are most certainly within their rights and not treading on yours. They certainly didn't come into your yard and snatch the cats.
In many municipalities you are to be in control of your animals, period. If your cats rarely leave your property there is a very small chance of them being trapped and there no problem. The onus is on you to insure they're not a nuisance to others.

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl

I still think it's ridiculous to expect a cat to stay on it's owners property. No cat I've ever known has EVER been trainable the way a dog has.

Then you keep your cat indoors. Just because you think it's 'ridiculous' doesn't mean that other people need to tolerate your pet. Your pet, your responsibility

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

Then you keep your cat indoors. Just because you think it's 'ridiculous' doesn't mean that other people need to tolerate your pet. Your pet, your responsibility

Oh, no, I do keep them indoors. But when I was young my cats were always outside. (My mother has this issue w/ inside pets. ) Of course, we did live in the country, not in an apartment (like now) or close proximity to our neighbors.

[SevenVeils]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

Responsible pet owners do not allow their pets to enter other's property at will. A responsible pet owner has his pet in his control at all times, and if the pet gets out by accident, that pet is wearing a collar with marked tags.


If untagged animals are creating a nuisance on another person's property and the pet owner has not made them identifiable as pets, the person has a right to trap them.

FWIW, I'm an animal lover.

I agree with this 100%. I always have had a variety of animals, both livestock and pets. Other people's cats and dogs getting into my trash, chasing/killing my livestock, even wanting me to pet them... not my problem. The people who own these animals obviously do not care enough to keep them at home, and ironically I guarantee that they did not know that I even owned animals- I have had to repeatedly go talk to various neighbors and, when that inevitably failed, trap their 'beloved family members' (yup, I did it. When MY animals are being threatened or attacked, YOUR stray is out of here). I've heard all the reasons why the dog/cat does not want to be in the house or why the people can't keep their animal on their property (but somehow I manage to, and I was a single mother of multiple kids with a big house, garden etc to care for).

I love my animals, but it is not my responsibility to love yours.

It is MY discretion, not yours, whether YOUR animal is creating a nuisance to me.

Also, I'm sorry, but I always had animals when my kids were babies and toddlers, and there is no way any of my kids 'inflicted torture' upon any of my animals. Protesting isn't enough. Again, pet ownership comes with a lot of responsibility.

[jrayn]

So it seems some people think because a LAW is a LAW then that is good enough, that makes it okay, we MUST follow all the laws that are created, no matter what.... If tomorrow they make a LAW that says, "you can't have any of your trees' leaves falling in the neighbor's yard, you can't have any sound coming from your house, including children's voices - if the neighbor's hear these noises and are bothered by them they have a right to complain and you will be fined". Then what, will there be a way for you to twist that around to make it acceptable b/c after all it IS the law.

We have one now where if you own a boat or RV, it has to have an enclosure or something like that, it can't just be parked like you park your cars... on your own property...
Or another one that applies to me, you are supposed to keep all cars registered.. possibly insured too? Even when they are not being driven or dribable... I have a car that is not drivable, not even 4 functioning tires, I keep it in my car port, but if someone walked in to the car port and checked the tag and reported it, I could get in some kind of trouble...
I don't live in a housing development where you pay homeowners' fees and a commitee makes various rules to keep everything looking "nice", just a regular... actually probably this is considered lower middle class where I live....
I would understand if my cats WERE damaging their property, although I would still expect a warning and I would agree to pick up the poo or fix the damage, but they are not, I am outside much of the time, I can see all of their property, the only things outside their property are... a tree and an ugly old metal shed... THAT is it, no plants, no wooden structures... they don't even go outside when they are home..
If it is allergies that they have a problem with, then their problem, IF by some amazing fluke I am able to get a fence that keeps my cats in my yard, then they will still get breezes of cat hair/dander into their yard, that wouldn't solve anything.
Like I said before, my cats poop in their "litter pile" in my yard, I see them run from the other side of the property to go there.
They are old.
If the neighbors have BIG plans, my cats don't damage things or I would know I have all kinds of pots, flowers, and stuff for them to dig, poop, or scratch...
They usually are in my yard, I don't see how they wouldn't know they are my cats, they typically lay right outside in frount of the house, usually my daughter is next to one of them b/c he follows us constantly.
I realize that in some cases an animal SHOULD be contained, particularly potentially dangerous ones, but if these cats need to be contained we may as well start containing the squirrels or birds b/c they cause more damage then the cats - bird poop, squirrels eating fruiting grapes, Japanese plums, chew on certain outdoor furniture.... scare the begesus out of me when they hop from tree to my roof and back!!!
I can try and try to make this place "my home" but I really wish I could get out of the suburbs... makes me think of that "little boxes" song. BLECH

[SevenVeils]

I for one am not talking about laws at all. I am talking about responsiblilty. If I choose to keep pets, why should my neighbors have to deal with those pets?

Is it ok for me to let my goat wander on someone else's property? Should I have to put up with someone's cow in my yard? Yes, that has happened quite a few times. Fortunately the owner was always there within a couple of minutes to remove the cows, and was very nice about it. Had they had the expectation that their cows had some right to be in my yard, I would have had a problem with it.

Would you want someone's dog hanging around your porch?

Maybe they just don't like cats. They're allowed not to, it is their home and you do not have the right to have your animals there.

In my eyes, any animal that I do not own, which is on my property, is a stray. I may choose to be nice and talk to the owner if I know who that person is and if I feel they may be approachable, but when it comes down to it that is a favor on my part, not a responsibility.

I wouldn't appreciate strange children hanging out on my porch either. Obviously I do not mean children who I know and am friendly with. I mean some unknown kids just taking up residence on my porch, theoretically.

For the person who brought up tying dogs: I am also vehemently against that practice.

[boingo82]

Originally Posted by skyastara

I for one am not talking about laws at all. I am talking about responsiblilty. If I choose to keep pets, why should my neighbors have to deal with those pets?

Is it ok for me to let my goat wander on someone else's property? Should I have to put up with someone's cow in my yard? Yes, that has happened quite a few times. Fortunately the owner was always there within a couple of minutes to remove the cows, and was very nice about it. Had they had the expectation that their cows had some right to be in my yard, I would have had a problem with it.

Would you want someone's dog hanging around your porch?

Or in a really extreme example, (I saw this on DSC or NGC the other day), a toddler was playing in his yard, his grandfather heard a noise and looked up and the boy's head was in the jaws of a mountain lion. The grandpa threw the only thing he had, a toy ball, at the mountain lion, which dropped the boy and ran off. The boy had to have tons of plastic surgery and they did notice that all wounds were teeth wounds, no claw wounds at all.
Soon after, the sherrif's office shot a mountain lion with no claws. It was someone's pet. The boy's family received a letter from their neighbor apologizing for any damage their pet had done. When the boy's family tried to recover damages, the neighbors claimed they'd never had a pet mountain lion.

Anyway, granted your old cats are not going to be carrying a toddler off by the head, but cats can still cause injury, and it's not your neighbor's responsibility to figure out whose cats are trespassing on his property. He is well within his rights to trap them and turn them in to the Humane Society.

[jrayn]

Cows, goats, children are HUGE differences from cats. I wont go into details, most people know what these creatures can and do..
A cat is small, I know exactly what my one cat is doing in their yard... sleeping in some quiet shade- he isn't eating their plants, he isn't pooping, he isn't climbing their windows or digging in their garbage.
They are not "dealing" with my pets. If I see a wild animal in my yard that I don't want, I shoe the critter away, I don't cage it and send it off to be euthanized.
Luckily he didn't go there THAT often and it seems lately he hasn't at all, maybe he senses the bad vibes... hopefully. But it was not as though he was there for much more then a nap.
I guess it is all opinions though. I find it cruel to force an animal to be indoors when they clearly show signs of hating it.
I did look at the links of "cat fences", I noticed one had a price tag of something like $800 per 100 feet, not including assembly tools etc. Which means I would have to spend probably over $2000 on fence!!!!
We don't make that much in a month, there is no way we could ever buy that.
So should "responsible" cat owners only be those that can buy fences for $2000?
I now see what people mean by unfriendly, impersonal, detached people that they are so sick of.... that lack of a seance of "community".

[jrayn]

Originally Posted by skyastara

Also, I'm sorry, but I always had animals when my kids were babies and toddlers, and there is no way any of my kids 'inflicted torture' upon any of my animals. Protesting isn't enough. Again, pet ownership comes with a lot of responsibility.

When I said "torture" I didn't mean it literally Just typical toddler things such as trying to pick the cat up, when the cat doesn't want to be picked up, hugging the cat too hard, trying to forcefully give the cat flowers, feed the cat grass.

[SevenVeils]

My kids were very closely supervised with animals and I didn't let the animal be made uncomfortable. Just me, I guess.

My goats have no horns and are champion line dairy goats, therefore bottlefed by humans from birth, totally hand raised and are not capable of harming anyone (nor defending themselves unfortunately, good pens and good dogs protect them).

I'm sorry, I don't see a real difference. Again, I say that it is up to me to decide whether someone's animal is a problem to me or not. If they really need their animal to be able to roam freely on my land, I guess they'll have to offer to buy my property? That is theoretical, I rent.

I had a renter on my property (I rented from my father at that time) who had a fear of dogs. I could have labeled it as unreasonable and said it's my land and my dog can go where he wants to. I didn't. They were renting a portion of the property which I lived on, and I considered it my responsibility to keep my animals off of their portion.

It does work both ways to me, this is a very black and white issue as far as I am concerned. Obviously you feel differently, that is fine. Your cats aren't bugging me

I would also add, however, that it seems to me that you have more of an obligation to go speak to them, than they do to you. Maybe if you go to them it can be easily resolved, for instance maybe they thought your cats were homeless strays, or maybe they'll see that you don't really want to inconvenience them.

[charmander]

Originally Posted by nicole lisa

That smilie comes across as so insulting. It very rarely makes the person quoted feel good about further contributing to the dialogue.

Really? I love that smilie. I so rarely get to use it. I don't think it is insulting at all - it's kind of like '''''what???? - that doesn't make any sense to me""" I call it the "baffled and confused" smilie.

Here's the original quote. It doesn't say anything about cats on their owner's property - it just indicates that to follow the law you have to keep your pet cat indoors. That's why I was confused. And so were some other posters.

WHy is it her job to modify her lifestyle (with her motion detector lights), instead of her neighbors following the law (by keeping their cats indoors)?

[JustJamie]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

That's horrible, jrayn! My cat also insists on going out, and I would be horrified to find out that any of my neighbors meant her harm as she is a member of my family. If I were you, I would go have a long chat with your new dreadful neighbors, hopefully try to get them to understand your situation, and ask them to call you if your cats are ever bothering them. My cat always wears a collar outside with her name and phone number.



1) What is the big deal about a small animal crossing your yard? Do you also shoot at squirrels, bunnies, birds, and chipmunks?

2) Shooting at the cats is cruel. You say squirting them hasn't worked anyways, so I hope you'll discontinue the practice.

3) Take the motion detectors off your outdoor lights if you don't like that they go on like they're designed to. Many things can set off outdoor motion detector lights, and it's just part of having motion sensor lights that they often go on even when it's not a bad guy setting them off.



But they're not trapping stray cats! They're trapping jrayn's beloved pets. What gives anyone a right to steal someone else's pet?

1) They're not small, these cats easily weigh 20 pounds or more. Also, they're not "crossing" my yard, they dig in my flower beds, defecate in my bushes, etc. There are no squirrels, bunnies, or chipmunks in my neighborhood. Besides the 5 bunnies various neighbors keep CONTAINED as pets.

2) Sure, next time I'll put out a cat trap and take the animal to the shelter. Is that less cruel to your taste?

3) Like so many other posters here, I rent. The motion detectors are not mine, they are my landlord's. When I complained about the cats, the landlords looked at me like I had rocks in my head.

As far as your last question, what gives anyone's pet the right to steal my money? My right to the sanctity of my fenced-in yard? If I wanted a pet in my yard, I'd OWN ONE MYSELF.

Shall I buy a dog, and let it "cross through" your property, too?

[Emzachsmama]

Sorry...I think your neighbours are well within their rights here. Sure they could come and talk to you about it (IF they know the cats are yours) but they don't have to. I have 3 neighbourhood cats (don't know if they are strays or not) who love to wander all over my yard. They dig up and poop in my front garden bed so much that whenever the garden gets wet, it smells so bad...and it is right under my bedroom window. There is no reason we should have to put up with that.

My sister was attacked by a cat - horribly - she needed stitches and it was infected for a very long time. It took forever to heal. Cats can be dangerous. I'm not saying yours are but your neighbours don't know that. Maybe they have had a bad experience with a cat.

It's not your neighbours responsibility to 'deal' with the cats or keep the cats out of their own yard - regardless of how bare their yard is - it's YOUR responsibility.

[SquishyKitty]

Unless you can promise that your cats will be kept in your yard, I would be hesitant to say anything. Our neighborhood cats may be nice as pie, but they also poo in our flower beds, dig around in them, and leave little kitty pawprints all over my car (and scratchmarks on the hood when they slip around). It's not cute. It's not lovely. They are beloved family pets, but they are still somebody's pet that is running around unsupervised. Since I don't know which cat did it, I can't go to the owners about the damage to the hood of my car. We don't have garages in our neighborhood, so I have to either fork out my own money for a car cover or else deal with the scratches. We've buffed them out as best we can. I don't particularly care how superficial it is, it's my car that I am still paying for, and it hurts to see it damaged by somebody's unsupervised "beloved family pet".

Sorry to be the voice of dissent, but they are your animals and they are your responsibility, and maybe your neighbors should have said something, but they are within their rights to put up the traps in their yard.

[Yooper]

I love cats and have never had a problem with the many many free-wandering cats that come through my yard. BUT, the neighbors are within thier rights. They do not have to allow your cats in their yard. It is completely acceptable for them to call animal control to have them trapped and removed. They might not even know they are your cats or *anyone's* cats. They might think they are ownerless strays. Even if they know they are your cats, they can still have them removed. If you have cats and do not want to keep them indoors, do not have the money to build containment, or whatever reason you think they should be free-wandering, this is not your neighbor's problem. Because of the free-wandering cats in my yard, we cannot feed the birds or grow food. I am OK with that. But if I wasn't, it would be well within my rights to hand them over to animal control.

I am completely not getting the sentiment that cats should be allowed to go wherever they want. It does not matter why the neighbor does not want the cats there or how little "trouble" the cat owner might think thier cat is. It is the owner's responsibility to keep thier pet under thier control at all times. The easiest way to do this is to keep them indoors. If the owner does not want to do this, then they must invest the cash to have an adequate containment system.......unless all of thier neighbors are cool with the wandering animals.

[MamaWindmill]

I totally understand what you're saying and how you feel about this, but the neighbors don't have to have a good reason to not want your cats in their yard. They just don't want them there, period. My mother-in-law is terrified of cats; I would hate to think a neighbor of hers would act huffy about keeping their cats out of her yard simply because THEY couldn't see the problem. I know you love your cats, but it's their property, and unless you want your cats put in jeopardy, you'll have to come up with a solution - but, frankly, acting as though they have no right to expect your animals to stay off their property isn't it.

Originally Posted by jrayn

So it seems some people think because a LAW is a LAW then that is good enough, that makes it okay, we MUST follow all the laws that are created, no matter what....