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Choosing not to get a birth certificate at all... - Page 2

post #21 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajahkat View Post
http://studenttravel.about.com/od/pl...ertificate.htm

Nope, apparently you can get around it after all!

Kat
Wow! Thanks for the link, Kat.

I did my research on it 11 years ago when we started having children. The county, the state rep, state department, and all the b/c resistors I knew were emphatic there was no way to get a passport without one. I guess I should have waited until Ask.com before having kids.

~BV
post #22 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajahkat View Post
http://studenttravel.about.com/od/pl...ertificate.htm

Nope, apparently you can get around it after all!

Kat
d'oh!
post #23 of 218
I have flown at least 5 times with my son who was born in 2001 and he does not have a bc. I have never been asked for id for him. Though I do agree it would eventually become an issue.

You know, personally, I don't have any problem with having a bc. I'm not an anarchist or anything. Frankly, I'm not understanding what is so difficult to grasp about some people not wanting to be "on file" with their government. It makes perfect sense to me.

I'm not necessarily one of those people, but I don't think it's wierd that people deliberately, and thoughtfully choose to NOT file a bc. We are at a really wierd place in time right now.

That said, the reason my kids don't have them is because it was not easy for me to register my first sons birth. They insisted I must have a doctor or midwife "check out" my son. I refused. I don't allow anyone to handle my babies until 40 days after birth. And even then I'm not too keen on strangers, those with medical credentials or not. We were at a standstill. I let it slide (for quite a while, I admit!) Until just before his first birthday. When I went back, the ONE woman who could register the birth was "off" that day. So, I started the process of filing a delayed bc, when I ran into the info on getting a passport without one.

I dont' think it will be anymore difficult for my kids to file a delayed bc than it would be for me to do it now. So I prefer to leave it up to them and let them make the decision.

We DO plan to live in MT eventually

And having been "legally married" for 11 years, I think it's highly overrated, and intend on telling my children that. And no, I don't mean I don't like my husband. I mean our marriage certificate doesn't mean diddly when it comes to defining our relationship and whether we are happy/fulfilled/in love etc.

Kat
post #24 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajahkat View Post
You know, personally, I don't have any problem with having a bc. I'm not an anarchist or anything. Frankly, I'm not understanding what is so difficult to grasp about some people not wanting to be "on file" with their government. It makes perfect sense to me Kat
Humor me here then, if you don't mind, because I honestly don't grasp it. What specific repercussions of having a birth certificate do you fear? It seems as though you view having a bc as a first step toward something really terrible potentially happening - but what?

eta: re-read your post and saw that the reasons you don't have bc for your kids don't really have to do with being on file with the government. But I'm still curious about the reasons why the "some people" you mention would avoid having one.
post #25 of 218
What specific repercussions of having a birth certificate do you fear?

I don't. I thought I made that clear.~

You know, personally, I don't have any problem with having a bc.

It seems as though you view having a bc as a first step toward something really terrible potentially happening - but what?

No. I just don't view it as necessary to my or my children's life right now. If that drastically changes, I'll probably make more of an effort to get them a bc. If not, then THEY can get one when it becomes necessary.

Kat
post #26 of 218
But I'm still curious about the reasons why the "some people" you mention would avoid having one.

You'll have to ask somebody else then

Kat
post #27 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajahkat View Post
http://studenttravel.about.com/od/pl...ertificate.htm

Nope, apparently you can get around it after all!

Kat

Not really. They say you need as many as possible of:

* Baptismal certificate
* Hospital birth certificate
* Census record
* Early school record
* Family bible record
* Doctor's record of post-natal care

well... I homebirth so no hospital record. Homeschool- no school record. Don't belong to an orgainzed religion- there goes baptism...

ETA- now I see the other form... but kind of a pain...

-Angela
post #28 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntG View Post
And as others have said, passports ... and I would add drivers' licenses to that. Every passenger on an airliner now has to have a form of ID and that inludes birth certificates for children. Don't know waht the age limit is though. I know my son has needed one since 2001 though. Of course, if you never fly then that's not an issue, but your child may want to drive one day.
I fly with dd at least twice a year (so 4 airport encounters a year at least) never needed any ID on her. Never. I've always bought a seat for her- so didn't need to prove she was under 2.

I believe the current regs. require ID if over 14, 16 or 18, not sure which.

I wonder if it's possible to get state ID without a bc...

-Angela
post #29 of 218
:

Quote:
And having been "legally married" for 11 years, I think it's highly overrated, and intend on telling my children that. And no, I don't mean I don't like my husband. I mean our marriage certificate doesn't mean diddly when it comes to defining our relationship and whether we are happy/fulfilled/in love etc.
rajahkat ~ that's about right!

Quote:
Humor me here then, if you don't mind, because I honestly don't grasp it. What specific repercussions of having a birth certificate do you fear? It seems as though you view having a bc as a first step toward something really terrible potentially happening - but what?
zinemama ~ I think it has much to do with not wanting children tracked by the government. Perhaps also with privacy. My children have BC's, but sometimes I revisit it in my mind from time to time. This is just a very small example, but awhile back I received a call from the county nurse (sounds kind of scary - COUNTY NURSE ) wanting to know if a certain child of mine had completed their "immunizations". I don't vax, and my children are unschooled, so it was interesting to me that she not only had one of my child's birthdates, but also my phone number. Turns out they were making calls to everyone in the county with a certain aged child, to see if they were up to date on their vaccines. The child of mine in question, was born here in MI and was in their database. A little disconcerting to me, and somewhat an invasion of our privacy.

All in all, the benefits of a BC outweighed the disadvantages for us, so we do have them, but I completely understand why some families do not.
post #30 of 218
"* Baptismal certificate
* Hospital birth certificate
* Census record
* Early school record
* Family bible record
* Doctor's record of post-natal care"

I doubt the baptismal certificate or the family bible record are any good either. It's the same outdated stuff they say you can use to file a delayed bc. You CAN"T though. They are only examples anyway.

I wonder what they would say if you wrote directly to the passport office with this list and checked them off, one by one, I don't have this because....., I dont' have this because...., and asked them what they could accept instead.

I tried that with my state vs office when filing for a delayed bc. She basically said, okay, let me send you some information in the mail. And sent me THE SAME stuff. So basically she had no help for me.

I do have a letter of no record for my eldest.

If I ever get around to filing for a passport, I'll let you guys know how it goes!

Kat
post #31 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I fly with dd at least twice a year (so 4 airport encounters a year at least) never needed any ID on her. Never. I've always bought a seat for her- so didn't need to prove she was under 2.

I believe the current regs. require ID if over 14, 16 or 18, not sure which.

I wonder if it's possible to get state ID without a bc...

-Angela
I just wanted to chime in here and say I have never had to provide ID for Marah Jade and she has flown over a dozen times. We just flew on May 29th. I did ponder how everyone just assumed she was mine. I am paranoid though so I think of those things.
post #32 of 218
I'm sorry, I wasn't mindful when I wrote that about flying. Kids don't need ID when they fly with a parent who has one, but they do need it for flying alone. Sorry I didn't clarify. Like I said, probably not a big issue for all so it was probably not worth mentioning.
post #33 of 218
I totally don't to be register with the gov't at all. I think it is scary. Like how the Nazis had everyone register their weapons - next they came around and gathered them all up! (So I've heard.) I could be compelled not to get one, if it wouldn't be such a royal pitb not to have one.

I *have* been asked to show my kids' b/c's to fly and to travel out of the country into Mexico. I wanted to get dd a state id to fly with instead of having to take her b/c. But I couldn't get one - in Texas you need 3 sources of ID! B/C and SS card were not enough! I don't have vax records, I won't have school records,... Ack!

So... if you don't have a b/c, are you not required to register with selective services? You forgo all the rights and obligations of citizenship? What about voting?
post #34 of 218
So... if you don't have a b/c, are you not required to register with selective services? You forgo all the rights and obligations of citizenship? What about voting?

I'm going out on a limb here, but I would think that folks who are choosing to live without bc and ss# have a sufficient lack of faith in our government that they perceive voting to be a joke. And why oh why, if they don't "exist" would they register to be drafted into the military of that government?

Kat
post #35 of 218
I would think you could still vote.... if you registered

-Angela
post #36 of 218
So... *can* you get a driver's license without it? How do you vote without a driver's license?

*sigh* too bad ds got a b/c I could have kept him out of selective services - dh would say that is a horrible of me - but ugh, I'm so against the draft...
post #37 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
So... *can* you get a driver's license without it? How do you vote without a driver's license?

*sigh* too bad ds got a b/c I could have kept him out of selective services - dh would say that is a horrible of me - but ugh, I'm so against the draft...
In TX you don't need a driver's license to vote. Just a voter registration card.

-Angela
post #38 of 218
Ah, that's right - that is all they asked for - in WI they wanted ID (but I did register to vote at the DVM - DPS whatever it's called here - I guess there's other ways to register...)

But don't people who don't *exist* want to drive? Or can you get around that some way? Surely those who get int'l driver's licenses don't show b/cs...
post #39 of 218
I don't know. My kids are too young to drive, so it hasn't come up. You can always conscientiously object to fighting in the military. THere was an article about it in mothering awhile back and how she had to provide documentation that throughout her sons life he had been taught that fighting/violence was wrong and that it wasn't a last minute throw-together thing just to keep him from having to fight in the war.

In TX you don't need a driver's license to vote. Just a voter registration card.

Isn't that interesting! Here in FL, you can't use your voter registration card, you MUST use your drivers license. At least that's what it says on my voter registration card!

Kat
post #40 of 218
Thread Starter 
I don't have oodles of time to post right this moment, but I wanted to stop by and make it clear that there are MANY valid reasons to NOT have a BC for a child. BUT, it is a matter of personal belief and perception, and I can't expect everyone to believe them all let alone agree with them all. I'd be opening myself up to A LOT of persecution if I stated every reason I have for not wanting one. What matters most RIGHT NOW, is that my child doesn't need these things in the immediate future. He/She can have a fantastic childhood without one, and when they are adults and able to make the decision for themselves as to whether or not they want to be registered, then they will be able to make that choice. I look at it as something similar to circumcision... Why sign your child up for something they might not want to be involved in later in life, when they don't absolutely need it, and can always get it done later in life? Once your child is registered and numbered with the government, that information NEVER goes away, much like a foreskin can never grow back. More later though... I love hearing what everyone has to say on the subject.
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