Confusion on home schooling vs. testing out "school" - head is spinning!

[mamasaurus]

I have a 4yo DD who will be 5 in October.

DH and I have always, always talked about homeschooling. However, as we approached DD's being old enough to start school, we started thinking that perhaps we ought to try her in a 3/day week Waldorf preschool this fall and see how it goes. We just want to see if she really likes a "school" environment. We hate the idea of limiting *her* options by our choices, KWIM? She might really like preschool, I don't know.

And now, I'm worrying...

I'm thinking how much I will miss her during the day, and how much time she will be away from home in a new, strange environment, and if the kids will be nice to her, and if the teachers will be a good match for her or not, if the Waldorf-style of education will be good for her - all kinds of thoughts.

We have been to the school, met the teachers, sat in on a class, seen the whole enchilada. I liked the school, and DH was fine with us trying it. DD liked the school, too, enjoyed it very much.

And the part about missing her during the day - it's ironic, because I WAH and have a nanny - but nanny and I have always worked out the schedule so that I could see DD every 3-4 hours or so, have some re-connect/play time. This preschool is 6 hours long, from about 8:15am to 2:15pm. I would take her in the morning, and nanny would pick her up (we also have a 2yo DD that nanny would be caring for during the day, that is why she is working), which means that DD wouldn't get home until almost 3pm after leaving the house at 7:30am - a LONG time to be away from home and from Mom.

I'm just all confused! :

Anyone else go/going through this - wanting to homeschool, but also wanting to test the "school" waters, and all the accompanying doubts/questions that go along with it?

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

Anyone else go/going through this - wanting to homeschool, but also wanting to test the "school" waters, and all the accompanying doubts/questions that go along with it?

I have not, so I might not be the best person to answer your question, but I did want to address this:

We hate the idea of limiting *her* options by our choices, KWIM?

Honestly, I see this as a parent's job. We make choices that we think are appropriate for our children as they reflect our values and our ideas about safety and lifestyle.

I don't think that a four/five year old child is old enough to understand and thoughtfully reflect on the differences between school and homeschool and how that choice could have long-ranging effects on her life.

I think it's prefectly fine for you to make the decision that you think is best for not only your child but also your family.

dm

[UUMom]

I see preschool as something completely different from school-school. I know lots of hsers whose small children happily attended little play programs/preschool/Mother'sMorning Out programs etc.

[beanma]

that seems like a long preschool program to me. are there any half-day options that are workable? my dd1 went to preschool/playschool at 4 years old for 3 days a week from 9 to 1 and that was plenty long for the both of us. she's gone to private pre-k/K this year which is a full day and really had some adjustment issues i think would have been helped by a shorter day, but there weren't many options for that around here.

we're still evaluating for next year and may homeschool depending on how the summer goes, but the private school she goes to is pretty great as far as schools. it's kinda waldorf w/o the waldorf if that makes any sense.

[MyLittleWonders]

One of the reasons we are hs'ing our children is because we don't agree with the structure, philosophy, etc. of school, in any form. Therefore, we have never thought of testing the water, so to speak. Like dharmamama said, there are some choices we make for our children because they are not yet ready to make them. If you ask my oldest (almost 6), he will tell you that he would rather hs than go to school. But, even if he thought he'd want to go to school (and he went through a couple days of that at the beginning of last fall when dh went back to work - ironically dh teaches at a public high school), we still wouldn't allow him. He does not have the vantage point that we do. So, where he "schools" is not his decision to make. And honestly, he may not even get to make that decision when he hits junior high or high school. We hs because of the philosophical differences between us and schools.

I would suggest you decide why you want to homeschool ... and see if those wants can be accommodated with dd in school all day, three days a week. If your reasons to hs include not liking the way schools are ran or the underlying lessons learned in school (regardless the type), then testing it out would go against your personal beliefs/philosophies. If you are hs'ing because of time together, then maybe see if you can find an opportunity for your dd that isn't quite so much time away. (And what you posted sounds like an awfully long time to be gone 3x a week.) But I think to answer your questions, you really need to examine the WHY behind hs'ing and also sending her to school.

[Piglet68]

I know many homeschooling, even unschooling mamas whose kids attend(ed) preschool. We are fortunate here to have a lot of play-based, parent-participation friendly preschools. And most of them are just 2.5 - 3 hours per day, 3 or 4 days a week. A truly play-based environment is nothing like school, which is why you should not consider this a "test" at all.

Preschool and even kindergarten are really nothing like school. My own cynical opinion is that we suck kids into thinking "school is FUN!" and then they start grade school with its set curricula, time limits, and testing...Anyways, my point is that even if you do preschool, it isn't really a taste of schooling.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by UUMom

I see preschool as something completely different from school-school. I know lots of hsers whose small children happily attended little play programs/preschool/Mother'sMorning Out programs etc.

I agree with this.

But that does seem like a long day. Are there any half-day options? We had our kids in small, in-home, play-based preschools 2 or 3 mornings a week. It worked out really well for all of us.

[splotchy1]

My son is in a play-based preschool program 3 mornings a week for 2 1/2 hours. It is an early intervention inclusion program and there are 4 teachers for 14 kids. It's been so wonderful for him socially (he has Asperger's) and he really loves school. However, I am planning on HSing him because elementary school is so completely different than the situation he is in now. He won't have the support he has now, the love and kindness he feels by his teachers will be lost when there is a 1:25 ratio and the teachers don't even hug the kids for fear of lawsuits of sexual harrassment.
I really feel that the 2 things are completely unrelated decisions. It's easy to find myself feeling sad that he won't have the fun school experience he is having now, but in reality, he would be losing it whether he went to PS or is HSed. So, I am letting him go to the preschool for one more year and will also let my ddaughter go when she is old enough. But, grade school...home with me.

[tankgirl73]

Have you read "Hold Onto Your Kids"?

It's a pretty compelling argument for how letting your kids 'try out' school is a very slippery slope to the loss of attachment and the subsequent behaviour problems. It's not per se a pro-homeschooling book, but it does address the fact of how institutionalized centers for children -- even preschool -- create these problems.

Your LO might very well indeed like 'school' -- but for all the wrong reasons. And thus begins the replacement of parent-orientation with peer-orientation.

Besides which, IMO, the time frame where school can do the MOST damage is the earliest years. If it is going to damage a particular child, that's when it will happen. That's when they need the MOST freedom to develop at their own pace, to learn to be themselves, to be dependent on their parents, and to play play play.

Think of it the other way around from 'what if I'm depriving them'... Ask yourself what you will do if you 'try' school and it does NOT work? School at that age very often sucks the creative life right out of young children. Then once you realize what's happened to your children, you take them out, and then you have to go through a 'deschooling' phase where they have to basically re-discover themselves and their lives and their own thirst and drive and motivation for knowledge. You have to start all over again, undoing the damage that was done.

On the other hand, if you start at home, then when they are older, like 10 or more... IF at that time they decide they want to 'try school', then it's less likely to cause any real damage. They'll be mature enough and grounded enough in themselves and their families to be better able to 'resist' the problems schooling can cause. Most anecdotal stories I've heard of older kids 'trying school' resulted in the kid saying by the end of the year "okay, that was interesting, but can I come back home now?"

And if they do decide to stay in school, that it suits them better -- and that often happens too -- they are no worse off than if they hadn't been at home, and probably in fact better off.

In other words, by 'depriving' them of the school experience NOW, you are not necessarily going to be 'depriving' them of the experience FOREVER.

My son may or may not go to high school. We'll decide that when we get there. But for now, there is NO doubt in my mind that the early years are when it is MOST important to keep them out of institutionalized learning, when they are not yet mature enough to realize the long-term consequences, and when their psyches do not yet have the strength and defenses to withstand the attacks on attachment, self-perception, self-esteem, etc etc.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

We hate the idea of limiting *her* options by our choices, KWIM?

What do you think SHE would choose? Is she happy with her sibling and nanny, or is she asking for different arrangements? Has she ever been away from you/her nanny for this many hours? Was she happy about it, or did she just get through it? Does she want to go to school?

My feeling is that my kids' activities are THEIR choice but I don't offer school (or other things for that matter) simply because they exist. There would need to be a reason. If my child is bouncing off the couch, swinging from the rafters and learning cartwheels from the neighbor kids, then I'd offer gymnastics class...if they really seemed to love painting, I might offer art camp...if they needed to make more friends, I'd arrange playdates or trips to the park or other social activities, etc. etc. So, I offer things that I think they'd like, and I try to meet their requests, but I don't think they should try out every activity under the sun just because it's there.


So, I'd ask WHY you want to try out school? Is it just because it's there, or because that's the default? Or do you think it will meet some need that she has that isn't being met at home?

[Rivka5]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Have you read "Hold Onto Your Kids"?

It's a pretty compelling argument for how letting your kids 'try out' school is a very slippery slope to the loss of attachment and the subsequent behaviour problems. It's not per se a pro-homeschooling book, but it does address the fact of how institutionalized centers for children -- even preschool -- create these problems.

I think it's important to note that large, well-conducted research studies haven't found any link between preschool and "loss of attachment." The only evidence that childcare or school causes attachment problems was found in children who spend many hours a week in poor-quality daycare centers under the age of one.

[PancakeGoddess]

I think it's too difficult to pin down a solid definition of "attachment" to conclude much.

I concur with the long day comments, also the fact that play-school is different than school, and also that Hold On To Your Kids is a fabulous book.

One of my 4 kids went to kindergarten - it was all-play, and wonderful. He was sad to leave school when we took him out to homeschool for 1st grade, but it was quickly replaced by satisfaction with his new circle of homeschooled friends.

[mamasaurus]

Originally Posted by Joan

What do you think SHE would choose? Is she happy with her sibling and nanny, or is she asking for different arrangements? Has she ever been away from you/her nanny for this many hours? Was she happy about it, or did she just get through it? Does she want to go to school?

My feeling is that my kids' activities are THEIR choice but I don't offer school (or other things for that matter) simply because they exist. There would need to be a reason. If my child is bouncing off the couch, swinging from the rafters and learning cartwheels from the neighbor kids, then I'd offer gymnastics class...if they really seemed to love painting, I might offer art camp...if they needed to make more friends, I'd arrange playdates or trips to the park or other social activities, etc. etc. So, I offer things that I think they'd like, and I try to meet their requests, but I don't think they should try out every activity under the sun just because it's there.


So, I'd ask WHY you want to try out school? Is it just because it's there, or because that's the default? Or do you think it will meet some need that she has that isn't being met at home?

I have no idea what she would choose. I guess that is why I'd like to at least give her a chance to experience preschool to see if it works for her or not.

I did try her in a one-day-a-week "preschool" - it was a Waldorf-inspired in-home preschool/daycare situation. The woman who runs it also has a parent/child playgroup on Fridays, and I've been attending that with my girls for over a year. We have LOVED it. This woman runs her preschool on Mon-Thu. So I wanted to see how DD would do - she loved the playgroup and loved the teacher, and so we gave it a shot. The woman had one day a week open, and that was enough for DD, I thought. The preschool was from 8:30am to 12:30pm.

All went well for about a month, and then DD started acting up for the teacher. She wouldn't listen, had no respect for her, and started pushing and shoving other kids - granted, there was another little girl who was a bit feisty as well. And she and DD did not do well together. The teacher just couldn't get through to DD. Remember, the school was Waldorf-inspired, and I don't know if it was just the teacher or the Waldorf philosophy of discipline or what.

See, DD is a very strong-willed or spirited or whatever you want to call it child. She needs a firm caregiver, loving, of course, but firm and clear with boundaries and expectations. And this teacher was just, well, how can I put this nicely? Just plain *not* firm - very soft in her approach to discipline. After a week or two of DD acting out, teacher just seemed to give up. I called her and we talked, and it was clear that she just wanted me to pull DD out. And frankly, I wanted to pull DD out, too. I did NOT want to be asked to make her leave. I just wanted to get her out of there. We had friends whose children attended there, and on play dates they would be FINE together - but at that particular preschool - they would get into trouble with each other. And I didn't want that to happen with our friends.

Now, here's the thing - I don't know how much of that was Waldorf teaching or the teacher. I have to say, I like a lot of the Waldorf style of teaching and if we were to home school, I'd probably incorporated some of it into our studies.

But, anyway - back to this fall and the Waldorf preschool - not the home-based one she attended for two months, but the big regular Waldorf school - I really like a lot of how they do things at that school. It is very play-based, easy-going, etc. There isn't a single other school here that I would consider sending her to. It's either that Waldorf school or home schooling.

I have to say, I'm not a dogmatic person one way or another regarding home schooling. I refuse to say it's the only way. So to answer the question of why I would want to try this - and if it would meet a need she isn't getting at home - all I want to see by "testing" out this Waldorf school is to see if DD will thrive in that environment. If not, then home she goes.

But, I do agree with all of you that the day is LONG. They do have an early pick-up option at 12:30pm. So, I ought to check into that.

[lauracd]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

See, DD is a very strong-willed or spirited or whatever you want to call it child. She needs a firm caregiver, loving, of course, but firm and clear with boundaries and expectations. And this teacher was just, well, how can I put this nicely? Just plain *not* firm - very soft in her approach to discipline. After a week or two of DD acting out, teacher just seemed to give up. I called her and we talked, and it was clear that she just wanted me to pull DD out. And frankly, I wanted to pull DD out, too. I did NOT want to be asked to make her leave. I just wanted to get her out of there. We had friends whose children attended there, and on play dates they would be FINE together - but at that particular preschool - they would get into trouble with each other. And I didn't want that to happen with our friends.

I have to say, I'm not a dogmatic person one way or another regarding home schooling. I refuse to say it's the only way. So to answer the question of why I would want to try this - and if it would meet a need she isn't getting at home - all I want to see by "testing" out this Waldorf school is to see if DD will thrive in that environment. If not, then home she goes.

But, I do agree with all of you that the day is LONG. They do have an early pick-up option at 12:30pm. So, I ought to check into that.

Well being quite honest, from this it sounds like you've made up your mind about sending her but also have offered a really compelling reason not to send her. Having a strong-willed and spirited child myself (my second one) I worry and fear that trying to put him into structure and with a rigid, disciplined environment would produce much the same results as your child experienced. I am 1) afraid that it will give him ideas about labeling himself as a "bad" child or a "troublemaker" and that those labels could haunt him and hurt his self-esteem and 2) that it would break his spirit---I think the very stuff that makes me want to curl up and cry somedays (his will, his obstinancy, his relentlessness) are also the very things that I think can later become the drive behind his passions for life and learning. Anyway, if for some reason there were absolutely no way for us to continue homeschooling I would want to find some way to do Waldorf as well. Just as a side note, I doubt anyone on this board thinks homeschooling is the only way. It seems that mostly it is about making careful and selective choices for our children that truly benefit them and are best for them. A lot of times that does seem to be homeschooling but I doubt any of us would say "always."

I hope that you find what you are looking for and the answers you are looking for. No choice is easy!

[zeldamomma]

Hmmm... is your dd showing signs of needing a change? If not, I think I'd wait to test out school. The older she is, the fairer the test will be, particularly if the school environment is not markedly different.

If she's showing signs of needing something else in her life, and you think preschool will fill that gap, then that's a different decision.

ZM

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

And the part about missing her during the day - it's ironic, because I WAH and have a nanny - but nanny and I have always worked out the schedule so that I could see DD every 3-4 hours or so, have some re-connect/play time.

I'm not following. I mean no offense because I don't have an opinion on whether someone else should have a nanny or work, but I don't understand what you are considering for your DDs education. If you connect with her every 3-4 hours, then it seems that you are deciding between having a private tutor for her (the nanny) or putting her in private school.

I would consider what the nanny actually does with her during that time, and whether or not she might recieve more enrichment from attending a well run program.

[PancakeGoddess]

The nanny part is confusing to me, too.

Personally, I found the Waldorf environment to be deceptively controlling. That was just our local school, of course. I'm not sure the strong-willed kiddies do real well with a waldorf setup, ftmp, but only trying it out would tell you for sure.

In the younger years, waldorf methods are very simple and lovely to do at home, where there is more flexibility for temperament than she'd have in a larger group.