Birth of Olive Sigler

[SusanElizabeth]

A video is featured on this web site: The Birth of Olive Sigler.

The video is beautiful to watch.

[AuntG]

I think the fact you felt the need to point that out says more about your character than it does about hers ... or about the women who choose to reconstruct their breasts for reasons you could not possible propose to know.

[EarthMommy80]

Originally Posted by AuntG

I think the fact you felt the need to point that out says more about your character than it does about hers ... or about the women who choose to reconstruct their breasts for reasons you could not possible propose to know.

: I am VERY offended! As I am sure many women on this board would be if they saw this post! Try a little harder not to be so judgemental please. It is assumptions like that, that make being myself in a world that bases so many judgements on peoples looks so difficult!

[memz]

So her natural, peaceful and beautiful birth can't be ackowledged because she has tattoos...WTF:

I am very offended and I think like AuntG that your attitude says more about you then her tattoos could ever say about her.

[gcgirl]

I'm sure tribal cultures for whom tattooing is an ancient custom would take exception to your definition of "natural family living."

I'll bet the ancient Celts, Maori, or various African and Native American tribes lived (and some still live) more naturally than any of us, and many make cultural use of body modification.

Just a thought.

[Collinsky]

I do think that this question is badly phrased, and kind of guaranteed to offend anyone who happens to have chosen to get one or more tattoos. I think part of the problem is that its in the wrong forum. This isn't a question about birth. It's a question about how do tattoos or other body modifications fit into a natural lifestyle. Which honestly is a legitimate question. The OP obviously doesn't have any tattoos. It's obviously outside of her comfort zone, and her particular definition of a natural lifestyle. Her question reveals the boundaries of her experience so far... it doesn't necessarily reveal her ability to stretch those boundaries, or to say, "I hadn't thought of that aspect." Could be she actually is looking for a mama who embraces natural living, who chose to get tattooed, to explain how she came to that decision. Tattooing does involve inks being introduced into the skin; many women don't dye their hair or use conventional soaps because of chemicals. I think her underlying question is, how are the dyes used in a permanent tat safer than some of the chemicals used in personal care products. And if they are not, how do you weigh that in your choice?

Yes, her assumption does seem to be that any woman who got tattooed just didn't think about that at all... and that's rather judgemental. However, I'd rather assume actual curiosity and an opportunity to gain understanding than vitriol in this post.


Susan, am I understanding you?

[Pumpkin_Blythe]

I came here becuase I had issues breastfeeding my last baby and I want a head start on going more natural with this one. I dye my hair, I have a tattoo and no I do not always recycle. If that means I do not belong, just let me know before I start making friends. I didn't see the video, but any woman brave enough to post the birth for others to witness is amazing to me regardless of how she looks.

[Collinsky]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Blythe

I came here becuase I had issues breastfeeding my last baby and I want a head start on going more natural with this one. I dye my hair, I have a tattoo and no I do not always recycle. If that means I do not belong, just let me know before I start making friends. I didn't see the video, but any woman brave enough to post the birth for others to witness is amazing to me regardless of how she looks.

This is not my natural hair color. You fit in!

[AuntG]

Prejudice among women is a bitter disappointment

MDC forums are used by people with many different ideas of what's "natural" and usually they argue about what constitutes natural birth, or natural gardening, for example. And through that process learning takes place. But tattoos and fake boobs?

I was actually more offended by the statement about breasts. No one can get inside the head of every woman who makes the decision to get implants! Women who attack other women's decisions about how they choose to present, adorn, or treat their bodies is disheartening. And no, I don't have implants, but I will fight for another woman's right to get them.

I wondered at first whether "she has a pretty face" was an attempt to mitigate her statement. Who has never heard the preamble, "She'd could be so pretty if only she didn't <fill in the blank>..." --not usually heard outside of high school, mind you.
But now this woman's outward appearance has called into question whether she should even be allowed into our community -- whether we should validate her birth experience as fitting the "standard."

To invalidate a person's experience because of their appearance is, by definition, blatant bigotry. That does produce a vitreous reaction in me, I confess. I promise you all, I DID try to look deeper into the OP's post and to wonder from what angle she is coming. But still all I see is that she publicly denounced a fellow woman/mother based on appearance, and with an awfully broad brush, painted all women who modify their bodies (in either of two ways presented) as being unsuitable for this community. Hopefully she has learned to be more considerate and careful with her assumptions.


The video can be seen here: http://www.mothering.com/interactive...ing-media.html
It's beautifully and artfully done.

[SusanElizabeth]

I actually don't think I have anything against someone surgically changing their body if it makes them feel better about themself.

[SusanElizabeth]

I have modified my own body

[SusanElizabeth]

Originally Posted by AuntG

I wondered at first whether "she has a pretty face" was an attempt to mitigate her statement. Who has never heard the preamble, "She'd could be so pretty if only she didn't <fill in the blank>..." --not usually heard outside of high school, mind you.
But now this woman's outward appearance has called into question whether she should even be allowed into our community -- whether we should validate her birth experience as fitting the "standard."

OK - You're right to an extent, but I do think she has a very pretty face. That was not a fake statement.

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by AuntG

I think the fact you felt the need to point that out says more about your character than it does about hers ... or about the women who choose to reconstruct their breasts for reasons you could not possible propose to know.

:


I'm glad to know my home birth is not acceptable due to the rose tatoo on the small of my back though

[cheeseRjedi]

That was a beautiful video.

And I like her tattoos.

[memz]

To tell you the truth when I first saw the video I didn't even notice her tattoos. When I saw this thread, I had to go watch it again.

[gcgirl]

Originally Posted by SusannaG

I think what I'm not getting is the basic philosophy of the web site. I had been getting the impression that certain kinds of modifications were somehow, not ok.

There are all kinds of people here with various ideas about what constitutes "natural" living. There isn't one single "party line." Even if 80% think one thing, it's almost guaranteed 20% will think another, or at least some variation thereof. Personally, I come here for education, support, and discussion, but I make up my own mind about things.

[ani'smommy]

Thanks for linking the video, how beautiful and inspiring!

[Mrs.Bufford]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Blythe

I came here becuase I had issues breastfeeding my last baby and I want a head start on going more natural with this one. I dye my hair, I have a tattoo and no I do not always recycle. If that means I do not belong, just let me know before I start making friends. I didn't see the video, but any woman brave enough to post the birth for others to witness is amazing to me regardless of how she looks.

Don't go anywhere! I don't think that this one person's perspective on body modification has anything to do with the actual site. While that comment made me a little angry, I know that my NINE tattoos aren't on my body for other people, they are for me and if someone likes them then thats great, but if not its no skin off my nose. I will totally be your friend, and I'm sure a good percentage of people on this site wouldn't think anything about hair dyeing, tattooing, or recycling only some of the time.

EDIT: I just watched the video, and I thought it was wonderful! I loved seeing a couple with sweet tats having a home birth. It just goes to show you that all kinds of people go for all kinds of choices.

[channelofpeace]

What a beautiful slideshow!

The picture of her crying after her baby was born made me tear up.

[redhen]

Originally Posted by SusannaG

A video is featured on this web site: The Birth of Olive Sigler.

OK -- Here is my question about this. The video is beautiful to watch, and the mother of Olive is obviously a very lovely woman. She has a pretty face. But all I could think when watching this is, why would she cover her body with tattoos? I mean, how healthy can it be to inject your skin with all these dyes? This is supposed to be a website of "Natural Family Living" but how does doing that to your body fit in with that? Why is this any different from say, featuring a video with a woman who has obviously silicone-enhanced breasts?

It's not any different than a birth video of a woman who has "obviously silicone-enhanced breasts" - do you really think that a woman is less of a natural parent because she chooses to modify herself for whatever reason, be it spiritual, cosmetic, corrective, etc? :