HAPPY update to "Would you let her keep the child" - Page 5

[Roar]

Originally Posted by thismama

Well, biologically they are capable, no? If a young woman births a child, she is a parent. The difference is whether she is a parent of a baby with her, or a parent of a baby removed.

No the difference is are they going to be a competent parent who will be able to nurture and care for the health and development of their baby OR are they going to sneak out in the middle of the night, leave the baby unsupervised and risk the basic health and survival of the baby.

I'm waiting to hear from the other posters - nine year olds are capable of giving birth? Should they be have custody of their children to raise them? Are they capable of doing so?

[Roar]

Originally Posted by thismama

Talk to some birthmamas about "adoption today." Or some adult adoptees about adoption in recent generations.

Yes, I have. There are folks who are very pleased with the way adoption has worked out for them and for the children involved. I wonder why it is important to some folks to ignore that? And, in the process to heap a load of crap and shame on people who recognize that giving birth doesn't mean they have the desire or capability to do a good job raising a child.

[kwren23]

thismama you may very well be right about this girls situation. this whole topic hits a little too close to home for me to be objective about it... not only am i an adoptee and a teen mom but i am also the mother of an almost 13 year old! i realize that there are plenty of 13 year olds that have forced to grow up far too fast, but i look at my son and think NO WAY! there is no way my kid could be an adequate parent at this point, no way. he is still too much of a child.

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by thismama

Very true. And it is clear that was not happening in this situation. However, it also sounds like it may have been a set up from the very beginning, and that energy was focused on controlling what this girl chose re: adoption, where it could have been directed toward support and encouragement.

Remember, she lived with a Foster family. She was pregnant when she moved in there. They gave her support and tried to teach her basic childcare. She had the baby, they brought them both back home and took care of both of them. They were helping her and mentoring her. But, in the six months after the baby was born she did nothing to show that she wanted to take care of this child. She was angry and resentful of their rules, and she broke them constantly. Leaving her sleeping infant in his bed while she left the house to go party.

SO, the foster parents decided that it was not in the best interest of her other children to allow her to stay in the house.

I THINK (but, I don't know) that they had one more foster home before she stole the car. But, it could have all been at the same foster home. That was just the impression I got.

She has a long record of theft, and other offenses. So, she HAS had many chances.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Roar

Yes, I have. There are folks who are very pleased with the way adoption has worked out for them and for the children involved. I wonder why it is important to some folks to ignore that?

Nobody is ignoring that. Nobody here is saying that adoption is e-val and should never occur.

What is being said is that the climate of non-support, coercion, and desperation is not okay, and that the adoption industry as it now stands is ethically corrupt.

Mamas should get to make a real CHOICE about adoption. Babies should get to be with their mamas if it is feasible. Young mamas should get the support that we all need!!! to mother well and raise their children well.

I don't see what is so controversial about that.

[MillingNome]

There are a number of threads of thought going on here- one looking specifically at the individual case of the 13 year old as described by the op and one looking at adoption in a larger context...


This whole thread seems to be a lost cause on so many levels.

Unsubbing.

[mama2toomany]

There are plenty of mother's out there that break the law... they are still good mothers... actually there are mother's out there getting to keep there children with them most of the time they are in jail....


So if she would have been allowed to have her child with her through this mess she is into who's to say it wouldn't have changed her? Or given her the chance to learn how to be a better women?

[nextcommercial]

Just another story supporting adoption...

My best friend's daughter got pregnant at 19. Not really young, I know, but she was not a responsible person. She was what she called a "Screw up". She wasn't all that bad, she just didn't make good decisions.

She had Alex (name was changed). Not long after Alex was born, he started to show signs of a flat head. It kept getting flatter and flatter. The Doctor had her take him in for a helmet. She was too busy to keep her apppointment. Turned out, she never took him out of his car seat, so his head just molded to the car seat. She even propped his bottles in his mouth while he was in the car seat.

Eventually he learned to walk and crawl. She called him "A bad baby"

One night, a neighbor complained that he was crying hysterically and seemed to sound exhausted. So, the police were called. SHe had left him alone for over 24 hours with only a sippy cup of spoiled milk and a few bowls of cheerios that she had scattered throughout the apartment. The reason they knew it had been over 24 hours was because she had been arrested the night before, and was still in jail, because she never called anyone to bail her out, or go get Alex.

Alex was taken away, and given to the Grandma for six months til Mom took parenting classes.

WHen he was two, she was caught giving him Pot, so he would sleep, so they could party. She was arrested, he was taken away and sent to live with Grandma for six months while Mom went to rehab and took parenting classes.

When he was five, he went outside the apartment and didn't come back when she called him. Mom got mad. She told him she hated him and he ruined her life. Then she took a gun and shot herself in the head in front of him. But, not before she told him it was his fault.

He is six now and lives with his Grandma.

Nobody could have known this would happen. But, she was talked INTO keeping him. She wanted to give him up for adoption, but everybody she knew said, "No, keep the baby, I will help you raise him." None of those people were there five years later.

[thismama]

So that is a story of an abusive mother. Proves what, exactly? I could come back with a story of an abusive adoptive mother. Abuse sucks, is the meaning of that anecdote.

[mama2toomany]

sad story... but this is opposite situation.. this girl wanted her baby.

[mama2toomany]

Originally Posted by thismama

So that is a story of an abusive mother. Proves what, exactly? I could come back with a story of an abusive adoptive mother. Abuse sucks, is the meaning of that anecdote.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

You guys don't get it. SHE IS RUNNING AWAY AT NIGHT AND STEALING CARS! These homes where they train young mothers to take care of their babies, and teach them how to feed, bathe, financially support their babies is for women who WANT to do these things.

This actually sounds strikingly similar to the young mother in the story just given.

Those of you who think that there should be more done should DO it. I'm not being sarcastic. You could take in one or two young pregnant girls and teach them how to parent. There are organizations who help Moms by giving them a place to live while they are pregnant, then help them get on their feet.

OR you could be a foster parent, and specifically only foster young pregnant women who can't decide what they want.

There is a Christian organization called CRISIS PREGNANCY. They buy homes and several young Mothers live there together with their babies. They have supervision, and support.

You could offer free childcare to young mothers so they can finish school. By doing that, you could also mentor them, and be there for the late night ear aches when the Mom isn't sure why the baby is crying.

There are a lot of things you can do to help out.

Enough said.

[runnerbrit]

Wow. I don't even know where to begin so I apologize for rambling right up front. I have been following this post since it began and have been very shaken by the whole thing. I come from a family where I am the only biological child and have 11 adopted brothers and sisters. My parents have been foster parents for 27 years. That being said....

This girl does deserve more support; but have you ever had a child in your home that was so destructive that it put the rest of the famly in jeapordy (not neccesarily physical but emotional)? I have. It is horrible. It is very easy to act as a Monday morning quarterback in this situation, and share all the if onlys. But, in the real world many times we just all do the best we can. That includes the family that adopted the baby, the bio mom and yes, even CPS. CPS by the way is largely made up of people who became social workers to make a difference in their commuinty and in the lives of children, who are often over-worked and under paid. Who have seen horrible situations that children are in and know that their decisions will radically alter the life of a child and family. If you think those decisions are made lightly you are wrong there is a reason the burn out rate is high in the profession. If you knew some of the horrible things that a person who gives birth to a child is capable of you would not make the blanket statement that giving birth makes a mother or parent. (Getting off the soapbox)

From what has been described by the OP this child was placed in a home while pregnant she was given support by the foster family and chose not to take it. After giving birth to her child the behaviour continued and escalated to the stealing of the families car. Why should that foster family have kept her and her baby in that home when what she brought with her was hurting everyone else in the home? Some people may not feel that this thread was named appropriatly but for the baby it sounds as if it is a happy ending. This baby now has the opportunity to break out of the vicous cycle that the family has been in (from the description given by OP) for several generations.

Just for the record: An adopted child can be loved just as much by the adopting family as a bio child who was born to that family is.

[sugarmoon]

Originally Posted by A&A

How wonderful it would have been if the "concerned teacher" could be more concerned about the 13 yo. than her own desires to "rescue and raise" someone else's child. The teacher could have been a mother figure to them BOTH, and then the young mother could have moved out on her own with the child when she had her full act together (and graduated from school, etc.)

Would-be adoptive parents have no more obligation than the rest of us to take in teen parents. I see this sentiment expressed frequently by the not so pro adoption folks and it makes me crazy. I am *all* for reform of the adoption industry, starting with taking the industry out of it, but providing support to teen moms and other struggling moms who WANT to keep their kids is something we *all* need to take responsibility for. I am a foster parent, and just this week, I returned my precious 3 month old foster son back to his mother, now that she is living in a residential program for teen moms. Do you have any idea how hard it was to love and care for a newborn for 2 months, then hand him back to someone who, at *best* will be a mediocre mother to him? I doubt it. What are *you* doing to support teen moms in your community?

Also, I sincerely doubt that the adoptive mother in this situation had a desire to "rescue and raise" someone else's child. I imagine that she, like all of us, wanted to be a mother.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by gus'smama

Do you have any idea how hard it was to love and care for a newborn for 2 months, then hand him back to someone who, at *best* will be a mediocre mother to him?

um. wow. I get that it would be hard to care for a baby for 2 months and then return him. But to decide out of hand that his mother will be "at *best* mediocre" ?!? wow.

[miche28]

I read this thread a few days ago and it's stayed with me - I feel compelled to post. I think there's a clear bias in the tone here that suggests that adoption is never really the best solution - but given the facts in this case, I don't get it.

This is a 13-year old child who has significant issues and no family support. By putting her rights first, you're condemning this baby to years of institutionalized care, interventions by CPS and stealing his chance to form an early and secure attachment to a competent and loving mother. How can people who believe so strongly in the power mother-child bond suggest that it can be deferred until a mother has gotten her act together?

I am an adoptee and I have children of my own now - I can tell you that the genetic bond I have with my children is not a iota stronger than the one I have with my own mother. What's more, I have no question that I am better off for having had the family I do - perhaps my birth mother isn't, but that's not the point of the child protection system.

[pearlgirl]

Originally Posted by thismama

Talk to some birthmamas about "adoption today." Or some adult adoptees about adoption in recent generations.

To the PP who asked, no I am not an adoptee. However I see this issue as a feminist and children's rights issue, and one that we need to examine much more critically than we currently do. Many of us seem to have swallowed whole the adoption industry propaganda.

There are children adopted that were not wanted by their birthmother or birthfamily. Not at all. It was no one's choice but the mother's and she didn't want them. Sadly there are children that are not adopted and will remain unwanted their whole lives. People who fight the "adoption industry" are fighting homes for these children with their generalizations. I understand where you are coming from, but it is incorrect to generalize all of adoption as many people seem to do. There are some cases, many, many cases where adoption is the best for EVERYONE involved when left to pick up the pieces and it is hurtful and damaging when that is not recognized.

Sarah

[thismama]

Originally Posted by pearlgirl

There are children adopted that were not wanted by their birthmother or birthfamily. Not at all. It was no one's choice but the mother's and she didn't want them. Sadly there are children that are not adopted and will remain unwanted their whole lives. People who fight the "adoption industry" are fighting homes for these children with their generalizations. I understand where you are coming from, but it is incorrect to generalize all of adoption as many people seem to do. There are some cases, many, many cases where adoption is the best for EVERYONE involved when left to pick up the pieces and it is hurtful and damaging when that is not recognized.

Sarah

Nobody is generalizing adoption as all bad, or saying mothers should keep their children against their will. People are critiquing the adoption industry's corruption, and the coercion and lack of support birthmothers experience which may force them to give up children they very much want to keep.

[moonbeem]

Originally Posted by gus'smama

Also, I sincerely doubt that the adoptive mother in this situation had a desire to "rescue and raise" someone else's child. I imagine that she, like all of us, wanted to be a mother.

Confusing sentiment...an adoptive mother IS raising someone else's child, (and lots of adoptors feel they were the rescuers.) There are other ways to express nurturing, loving, mothering behaviors than gaining someone else's baby

As for the adoptees that say they don't miss their mothers life is grand blah blah blah...it reminds me of all the men circumcised in infancy who don't miss their foreskins.

[choli]

Originally Posted by gus'smama

I am a foster parent, and just this week, I returned my precious 3 month old foster son back to his mother, now that she is living in a residential program for teen moms. Do you have any idea how hard it was to love and care for a newborn for 2 months, then hand him back to someone who, at *best* will be a mediocre mother to him?

I'm sure that was painful - almost as painful as it was for the baby's Mom to hand it to you in the first place. But, why do you say that she will be at best a mediocre mother to him? You have no way of knowing that - isn't that why she is in a residential program for teen moms, to learn how to be a good parent? On what are you basing the idea that she will be mediocre?

I don't think there are any perfect solutions in these cases, and there is no sure fire predictor of who will be a good parent, and who won't. There are many mediocre parents out there, should the children be removed from all of them and reallocated to "approved" parents?