negative and hindering comments from a doula

[redhen]

I am UCing this time around, but the doula who attended my first birth is a good friend of mine (and I was her first birth- she's now only had two). I can't even count how many times she's brought up the fact that my first baby was small (5lbs 11oz) and she keeps making (what I feel) are really rude and negative comments about how it's going to be more difficult this time, that I only had such an easy, calm labor before because she was so small, that I only pushed for 20 minutes because she was so small, that I didn't have significant tearing because she was so small, that I didn't POOP during delivery because she was so small, etc etc etc! The last remark was actually brought up from her teasing me about having done an enema at home because I was nervous about pooping during delivery. I'm sorry, but isn't she supposed to be supportive in anything that *I* need to do to be more comfortable during my birth?!

I am just asking here because I'm really sick of hearing these comments. I feel like it's really unprofessional for her as a doula to be making them, and really insensative (and innacurate!) as a friend as well. How should I bring this up to her? Not only to protect her future clients from such negative thinking but without wounding our friendship?

[rmzbm]

I wouldn't tolerate that. I'd be upfront & tell her to stop, if she did NOT I'd drop her in a heartbeat.

[redhen]

Originally Posted by rmzbm

I wouldn't tolerate that. I'd be upfront & tell her to stop, if she did NOT I'd drop her in a heartbeat.

I'm not actually working with her this time around, she lives in WI and I live in CA. We talk on the phone about once a week though and after talking today I almost hung up after she brought it up again (re: the pooping and enema thing). I almost feel like NOT being confrontational now (but later) and not speaking to her until after the birth... I just feel like her attitude is really negative. Like *I* don't know what I'm in for, and she's never even given birth (and I am not saying here that a woman who hasn't birthed can't be a good doula- but I don't think that a woman who hasn't birthed should be telling a woman who HAS had a very calm, sucessful natural birth that she doesn't know what to expect).

[MidwifeErika]

Just know she is full of it.

My babies have been 5lb10oz, 6lb8oz, and 8lb8oz. The hardest one was the 5lb10oz, that was the only birth that I needed stitches after, the one that took the longest to push, my longest labor (by days), etc. The middle child was my easiest labor and my last one (who was 3pounds bigger than my first!) was my fastest labor and the easiest pushing stage. So, size of baby isn't everything. I mean a person can have a really rough labor even with a small baby. I don't know why people assume that small babies are just so easy.... it is still a full human coming out of your vagina! It is wonderful that you had a great first birth! And even if this next baby is bigger, it doesn't mean it will be harder.

I would say to not talk to her anymore. You don't need negativity surrounding you right now, you need to be putting your head in a wonderful space for your upcoming birth. Maybe you could drop her an email or a letter letting her know that her negative comments are hurting your feelings and really getting into your headspace and that isn't what you need. She might have no idea, so it would be good to bring her attention to it and let her know that what she is saying is inaccurate and that if she wants to work with birthing women than she is going to be more careful of the way she is wording things.

[alegna]

Not cool. I would put my foot down and say that it's not up for discussion. If she can't manage that then I wouldn't speak with her anymore.

-Angela

[courtenay_e]

Really, if this woman wants to be a successful doula, she's going to need SOMEBODY to remind her to have tact, if nothing else. Common sense can't really be taught, but geeze...does she think that you'd give her a reference if every time you talk to her she puts you and your birth experience down? She should really be just asking you how you feel about your birth and then reflecting what you think about your birth. *sigh* and really, you COULD bring up the point that, as you have given birth and she hasn't, you think that you've got one up on her as far as experience goes! And I agree w/pp. My just over six pounder was a much more difficult birth than my almost eight pounder. Tell her to go and do some leg work. Have her find you the medical evidence that shows everything she's saying to you, and tell her you don't really want to hear one more negative thing about birth, or you'd rather just not talk about it. Really, if she is trying to put you down this much, she's not being much of a friend.

[Juvysen]

I've actually been told by a midwife that bigger babies tend to give faster labors because there's more weight on the cervix. My first baby was 8lbs, 9 oz, and a fairly easy labor (although I did poop a little... but barely noticed).

[fourgrtkidos]

Originally Posted by redhen

I am just asking here because I'm really sick of hearing these comments. I feel like it's really unprofessional for her as a doula to be making them, and really insensative (and innacurate!) as a friend as well. How should I bring this up to her? Not only to protect her future clients from such negative thinking but without wounding our friendship?

I think her behavior is unprofessional. If I was a Midwife at a birth and a doula was saying things of this nature I would consider excusing her from the birth......... negative energy and all.

[onlyboys]

Totally not okay. As a friend, it would be rude, as a doula, undermining a mama's abilities to give birth is frankly unconscionable.

And, my easiest birth was my largest baby.

[redhen]

Thanks for all of the positive and reassuring comments so far! <3

I crossposted this to LJ and someone suggested it might be because she is not OK with UC, which I agree with.

( a comment from me there: )
she's pretty critical of unassisted birth, so I'm betting that is really the issue. (I am so not trying to be snarky, as she IS my friend, BUT) In her vast experience of two births- mine, which was a hospital non-medicated (other than abx) natural vaginal birth that was smooth and easy, I was quiet and calm and totally lost in labor land, didn't require any doula services other than that she stay in the room with me (she tried counter pressure on my back once and I HATED being touched), very consistant progress as far as dialation went, very short pushing phase, etc... Really, it was a pretty damn perfect birth for a hospital OB birth. I was also a single mom. I guess her belief is that it was only so easy because my baby was so small. Her second and only other birth was a midwife attended home birth with a partnered friend who had a very very long pushing stage and she has a very "midwife saved the day" attitude about it- because the midwife had suggestions for positions to try after she, the doula, was out of them. She doesn't really understand my point that maybe had she not had two birth professionals telling her what to do, she might've been able to listen to her body and figure it out herself.

Anyway, she's very pro-midwife and hasn't really even looked into UC, so that would probably be her problem.

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by redhen

I am UCing this time around, but the doula who attended my first birth is a good friend of mine (and I was her first birth- she's now only had two). I can't even count how many times she's brought up the fact that my first baby was small (5lbs 11oz) and she keeps making (what I feel) are really rude and negative comments about how it's going to be more difficult this time, that I only had such an easy, calm labor before because she was so small, that I only pushed for 20 minutes because she was so small, that I didn't have significant tearing because she was so small, that I didn't POOP during delivery because she was so small, etc etc etc! The last remark was actually brought up from her teasing me about having done an enema at home because I was nervous about pooping during delivery. I'm sorry, but isn't she supposed to be supportive in anything that *I* need to do to be more comfortable during my birth?!

I am just asking here because I'm really sick of hearing these comments. I feel like it's really unprofessional for her as a doula to be making them, and really insensative (and innacurate!) as a friend as well. How should I bring this up to her? Not only to protect her future clients from such negative thinking but without wounding our friendship?

She's only had experience with 2 births? What makes her the expert on everything all of a sudden? : Do you think she's just trying to 'kid around' with you and not realizing that her comments bother you? Some people don't realize how they come across to other people.

Maybe she's only had 2 births under her belt because no one else wants to hire her? Just a thought.

What makes her bring up the subject of your first birth? Does she do this around your friends/family or just as a matter of policy when you two hang out? If she's doing it when you are just 'hanging out', you could say, "well when you get more experience as a doula, maybe you won't think the first birth you attended was such a big deal". Or ask her why she thinks the way she does. Ask her, "Isn't there a lot of variation in babies weights?" Or say, "Well it's better than having an overweight baby, isn't it?" Try to put HER on the defensive, then maybe she'll stop yapping about the 'doom and gloom' of your upcoming birth.

I don't blame you for going UC! Do you think she is jealous that you have kids? Does she have any? Do you think that this may be the issue, and she's being passive agressive about it? Just a thought.

[momto l&a]

I know of people who have had tiny babies and had a terrible time giving birth.

But I dont know how you should go about talking to this doula, I agree she does need to be made aware of this fact. Does she work with a mw that wouldn't mind having a talk with her?

[Mary-Beth]

I would say what you said here to us! You worded it all quite well.

You know the intensity of labor. You will be fine.

I would absolutely let her know that her comments aren't helpful or supportive. It might be good for you to speak up for yourself. You don't have to be harsh, angry or mean...just be honest. If she doesn't listen and take the feedback then I would not take calls from her until after the birth so you aren't putting undesirable images in your mind.

[Stephanie L.]

Tell her that: "talking like this is giving a bad name to doulas. Doulas are supportive and nurturing, kind and educated. If she wants to call herself a doula, she needs to be those qualities."

(Might not be her calling.....)

[Midwife Kris]

Originally Posted by redhen

I am just asking here because I'm really sick of hearing these comments. I feel like it's really unprofessional for her as a doula to be making them, and really insensative (and innacurate!) as a friend as well. How should I bring this up to her? Not only to protect her future clients from such negative thinking but without wounding our friendship?

The impression I have after reading this is she is not having this conversation with you as "your doula" or even "a doula" at all, but just as a woman you know. Calling her on it as a doula might be easier than calling her on it as your friend. Either way there is going to be an uncomfortable conversation.

FWIW, it doesn't seem like she is being unprofessional to me just by stating her observations and opinions. She's very green and has formed her opinions based on two experiences-- she has no clue how much she doesn't know

[ldsapmom]

I think I would go from the friend stand-point. A funny thing is, when I had a whopping 2 births under my belt, I didn't call myself a "doula" yet, but to each her own.

Say she says, "You are going to have a harder birth this time because of x,y,z." I would just say, "When you said that, I got the feeling there was something else going on. Are you comfrotable with me having a UC? Is there anything you want me to know about this? I would appreciate your support as a friend here, and if you feel this is not a good decision for us, I would like to hear why."

She come back with a defenesive, "Oh, no, i am fine with it, it's your decision," because you pin-pointed something and she doesn't want to be called on it, or she may say, "I do feel this is an unsafe decision blah, blah, blah." Either way, you have given her the opportunity to speak her piece.

Even if she says, "No, I have no problem with your decisions," if you feel she is just shutting down as a defense, you could say, "I hear you say that to me, yet I feel something different, that maybe you are afraid or uncomfortable sharing?"

Another thing to think about, is some doulas feel EVERY woman NEEDS the suport of a woman during birth, and often doulas in the earlier stages of wanting to save the world feel like a UC is a door slammed in their face, kind of thing. Could this be the situation? You don't need her (or someone like her)?

[jennica]

Originally Posted by fourgrtkidos

I think her behavior is unprofessional. If I was a Midwife at a birth and a doula was saying things of this nature I would consider excusing her from the birth......... negative energy and all.

Can a midwife excuse a doula from a birth? The client hires the doula, not the midwife. It's the clients birth, not the midwifes. It's the clients home, not the midwifes. So where in there does the midwife have the power to excuse (fire) a doula? Would the midwife then be held responsible to pay for the doula, or would she leave her client to pay for services that her client didn't receive because of her? If the midwife can excuse a doula, can she also excuse a spouse, a partner, a mother, a child? Do all midwives feel that they have the power to excuse people from the birth that the client wanted there?

[Stephanie L.]

:

[MamaRabbit]

Is she saying these things to you as a friend or as a doula? I've only supported one friend and it was the most difficult thing to keep the "doula hat" separate from the "friend hat". I would actually ask her, do you want the doula answer or the friend answer.

That said, does she have any training? Any mentors? A program she's doing? Not that those things are necessary, but communication skills could use some improvement.

[SublimeBirthGirl]

I'd tell her if she is going to keep making those comments you're going to stop talking to her or reading her emails until after the birth. FWIW, my 2nd birth (UC) was faster and easier than my 1st birth, and my 2nd baby was 5 ounces bigger.