Deliberate Destruction of "things"

[bdavis337]

So I'm going to do my best to keep this as short as possible.

Earlier this year, my 6 year old deliberately destroyed my neighbor's exercise ball. He stabbed it with scissors until it popped. The back story is long, but he did do it on purpose, apparently to see how many times he could "poke it" before it would pop. Consequently, he had to use his own money to replace it, and we emptied his piggy bank together, drove to the store and picked out a new one. He also brought it to her directly, and apologized. This made a huge impact on him. It depleted his piggy bank (I had to add a dollar or two to the total to pay for the replacement) and he's been fairly good about treating other people's stuff with respect since then.

Tonight, I discovered a hole in his bedsheets. Brand new, big enough to stick my thumb in. I had just washed these and put them on the bed 2 days ago, and that hole was not there. I asked him very directly, "which finger did you use to make this hole?" and he immediately said "my thumb and this pointer finger on this hand". Now this is trickier for me. I have 2 sets of bedding for his bed, so it's not as if he's without. I can and will sew the hole, and I won't need to buy a new sheet. He also has no money to replace the sheet, as he spent his money on that exercise ball mentioned above.

So, what to do? I really need an appropriate consequence for this action. He's a typical 6 year old, often careless with even his prized possessions, but this is different, in my opinion, than leaving his favorite remote control car outside overnight and having it ruined in a rainstorm. The consequences of that are obvious and personal - he loses a favored toy. This is less direct, and without money to replace the item he damaged, I'm not sure what direction to go with this.

My husband says he should have to weed a whole row in the garden. I'm not sure how I feel about that. It's not related to the action, and will only serve to help my husband weed the garden tomorrow night. It's obvious to me that without a clear, related consequence, he's going to think he got away with something. I told him I'd have to think about it tonight and let him know by tomorrow at bedtime what his consequence is, so I've given myself a full day.

[hubris]

I disagree that he will think he "got away with something," and I also disagree that he's even *trying* to get away with something. Granted, I don't know your son, and you do, but in my experience, kids are rarely trying to do something malicious like that. Usually they are simply following a curious impulse and just don't understand the permanence of what they're doing, like a hole in a blanket or a ruined ball.

he did do it on purpose, apparently to see how many times he could "poke it" before it would pop

Can you view that as being like a little scientist, testing a hypothesis?

I have a very clear memory of doing something similarly "destructive" when I was almost 5. (I previously posted this story and said I was 3, but I now believe I was older than that.) Here's the story quoted from a previous thread, along with my interpretation:

Little story from my childhood - I've been retelling this one to myself over and over lately to remind myself about what ds might really "know":

When I was 3 y/o [correction: closer to 5?], I sometimes napped in my parents' room. I'm assuming this was so that my younger brother could nap in our bedroom and we would sleep instead of playing with each other. Anyway, I have a memory of one particular naptime. I'm sitting on my parents' bed, on top of a fuzzy 70s' mustard yellow thermal blanket. I can see the top of my mother's dresser. There is a pair of tiny nail scissors sitting on top of it. I am vaguely aware that it's not something I'm supposed to touch, but they're so tiny, just the right size for my fingers, and the metal is slim and feels good in my hands, and it's just fascinating how I can hold the round parts and move them and snip snip go the blades. Oooh, look, if I point them down and push them on the blanket and snip snip, it makes neat little half-moon shaped slits. So amazing.

My mother did NOT share my sense of wonder at this discovery. She was very angry that I had cut holes in her blanket. I couldn't understand why she was so angry. I was vaguely aware that it was an undesirable thing to do, but why? The holes were so neat! The scissors were so tempting!

I had absolutely no concept of the reasons a person might not want holes in her blanket, or of the permanence of those holes. No concept.

So yeah, I "knew" that I wasn't supposed to do that, but had no idea why, and didn't have the impulse control to stop me from following the temptation of the scissors on the dresser or the amazing snipping sounds they made. And honestly, I think part of my mom's anger was because she knew *she* had left those scissors on the dresser. She could have prevented the whole thing but didn't, and she was frustrated with herself.

I tell myself this story over and over lately to remind myself that:
- ds doesn't have the same ideas of what is desirable or undesirable as I do
- he has no idea of the permanence of his actions
- he is seduced by the wonder of things - the colors different media make, the way they feel in his hand, the way something rips or cuts
- while he seems like he understands things, his impulse control is nowhere near an adult's abilities
- ultimately when he does something like this, my frustration has a lot to do with the fact that I didn't prevent it on time. That's my issue, not his.

Your son is older than mine, and older than I was when I cut that blanket, but he still has less impulse control and a less deveoped sense of permanence/consequences than an older child or adult does.

I wouldn't punish him, honestly. I'd talk very seriously about what happened, acknowledging both his curiosity (which is a good thing!) and how his actions affected the property and other people. I'm on the fence about his paying for replacements. That's a lot of money for a young kid to pay. Sure, it makes an impression, but possibly out of proportion to what happened (IMO). Maybe have him contribute a portion of the replacement cost? It's definitely important for him to learn how to make amends for things he destroys, whether he meant to do harm or not. I think the idea of reflecting on the situation and making amends is the best way to teach him in this situation, and discipline is about teaching, not punishing, after all.

In the case of the sheets, I'd try not to think of it as his purposefully destroying property. It is most likely that he meant nothing harmful and didn't truly understand that it is undesirable to have a hole in his sheets. I would not try to think up an arbitrary consequence here - certainly not hoeing the garden, what does that have to do with bedsheets? I think you're on the right track there - it's not an appropriate consequence - it's not natural or even logical. I would talk to him about what he did, try to figure out why, and explain why it's not a great thing to do. I would share how it makes me feel - frustrated, confused as to why he had ruined the sheets. I might have him help with the repairs, somewhat - at least have him present and talk about how to repair things so that he learns that when something gets broken, somebody has to fix it. I'd also try to get to the bottom of why he did it - was he not tired when he went to bed that night? Was there something worrying him and occupying his mind and making him fidgety? Does he need some other way to get his urge to explore out? Maybe a rag basket that he can cut and poke holes in to his heart's content? It's ok to have impulses like his, they just need to be redirected to a medium that doesn't result in destruction of things you had hoped to use again.

I've often found that when I feel like I *need* to assign a consequence to something, the real problem is how frustrated I feel, and that really the situation isn't as dire as I feel like it is. I've also found that because I was raised to believe that childish transgressions must be "nipped in the bud", I often feel like I must DO SOMETHING. That's my baggage, not his. I can't teach instant moral lessons by doling out a punishment. Learning how to be conscientious takes time, and in the meantime, we will occasionally have a ruined set of sheets or crayon on the wall.


Sorry this got so long. Mostly what I want to say is that I understand the way you feel, but that I think maybe it's not as important to find a big consequence as you feel it is right now, and that he really will grow out of these impulses or learn to redirect them. After all, I don't cut holes in naptime blankets any more.

[PancakeGoddess]

My son had very poor impulse control at that age. He ruined several nice things with scissors. He was just so driven to see what would happen. I'm not saying it's *okay* but I don't think, as the PP said, he was trying to get away with anything. I don't think a consequence/punishment would have prevented him from doing it again.

Having him sew the hole sounds like a really reasonable thing to ask, though. Weeding the garden seems pretty unrelated and useless, unless you just want him to feel punished.

[marybethorama]

I agree with what everyone said above.

My son cut holes in the knees of his brother's pants when he was young. I kept reminding him that I had tons of fabric for him to cut if he wanted to cut fabric.

I agree that replacing the exercise ball is a good idea since it doesn't belong to you. We had to replace our neighbor's window well covers-I just remembered that.

I think sewing the sheets with you would be a great idea.

[elizawill]

yea, my dd is almost 6 and she will do things like this too sometimes. she has cut her barbie's hair (which i did too as a child ) but it's still frustrating. i really don't think your son does these things to be mean, but it does sound like his actions are intentional, so i believe consequences are still appropriate at his age.

i think you handle the exercise ball perfectly. i'm sure others will disagree, but i absolutely would have responded the same way as you did in that instance. as for the bed sheets, i think consequences can and should be given with love (it probably doesn't make them anymore enjoyable for the recipient though). when i was younger, i broke a basement window pane to get inside my home ( i was locked out for some reason). my consequence was having to go to the store with my dad to buy the new glass. then i had to stand there and watch him break out the remaining glass and replace the new glass. it was super hot and boring for me, but my dad wanted me to experience the amount of time and money it would take out of his day to fix something i had broken purposefully. perhaps you can make your son walk through the steps it will take for you to sew his sheet, etc. i dunno...i hope someone has a great suggestion for you. hang in there mama!!

[myrmom]

i agree with the pp's I think that he is just learning and seeing what happens when.....it's not like he does this over and over again...i wouldn't say he is being deliberate....

I think sewing the hole is the best idea....it's not a punishment as he will probably enjoy the tast at that age...but he will see that he has done damage that needs to be fixed...and explain to him that it's not ok to do damage to things.

[angie3096]

I can so remember doing stuff like this as a kid, around age 5 or 6. I wasn't trying to get away with anything. It was blatant pure curiosity. Scissors were just so interesting, and I also had a compulsion to know how many times I could poke a ball before it would pop. I also wrecked several sets of bedsheets, among other things. I still have the set that I colored over with a permanent marker. My mother just let me sleep on stained, holey sheets. I survived. And I grew out of it, without any punishments that I can remember.

[bdavis337]

I think that's what I"m looking for - a way to help direct his misguided impulses!

With the exercise ball, he and his friend were UNSUPERVISED in their home (not worth going into detail here, but they weren't supposed to be in there) and they decided they needed open a package. They needed scissors, so his friend climbed on the counter to get them, they opened the package and then destroyed a few things with the scissors, the ball being just one of them. I know he was experimenting, but doing so with other people's things is just not acceptable.

Impulse control is important, and he has trouble with this overall. I want him to learn that inner dialogue that says "ummm, T, is that really such a good idea? I know it feels good, and I know it's fun, but is this something that you should be doing?"

I don't fault him for his actions, but I'm also not going to ignore them.

[mamaduck]

I would just say, "Please don't tear holes in your sheets. They are expensive, and they will be really uncomfortable for you to sleep on if they get holey."

Now -- if it happens again.... then its a different story. But the first time anyway, I would not assume that he knew any better.

[bdavis337]

Mamaduck, I disagree. He's destroyed other items in the past, and he's not a 3 or 4 year old who is just learning to respect his "things". He's 6 1/2, and he knows the basics of "respect your stuff, respect other people's stuff". If this was the very first time he'd EVER done something like this, I'd be willing to take a gentler approach. But this being the 4th or 5th item that has suffered at his hands recently, it's time for a more direct consequence.

[mamaduck]

Bethany, you certainly don't have to agree with me. I am just saying what I would do, that's all. Kids wreck stuff, its pretty much a part of life around here. When my oldest was 6, he chewed holes in the collars and sleeves of every shirt he owned. Things in my house are well worn, kicked around, etc. It bothers me, sure, but I don't think anyone is trying to get away with anything. I think they are just being kids. If I were to spend energy conuring consequences for this kind of thing, my kids would always be in trouble. So would my husband, actually.

I definately communicate that things like holes in sheets are frustrating and expensive -- and for a period of time, my younger son slept on sheets that had large tears in them because I wasn't ready to replace them until I found a good sale.

But people are a lot more important than things, and I certainly don't want my kids to feel afraid to tell me when things get damaged. If my 6 yo. admitted to intentionally ripping a hole in a sheet, I would be angry, and I would be baffled -- and I would talk to him about it. But thats about it.

[bl987ue]

My kid is the exact same age, and we have holes chewed in shirts too! :

OP, I think I would have handled the exercise ball thing the same way. I also like the idea of having him help sew the sheet. Now, anybody got a suggestion for how to keep their collars out of their mouths?

[blazer]

I also would not consider that deliberately destructive, deliberate yes but more for curiousity as others have said.

In case like this were I do not want to punish, I would have her "help" me fix the problem (ie sew the holes) and then I would have her "help" me with a chore of mine.

I phrase it to her as..." yes it was an accident/not something that is appropriate (whatever the best choice or verbiage), but since Mommy had to spend the extra time to help make it right then I need some help to catch up with my chores that I was planning to do" - fold towels, hang up shirts /weed the garden.

That way she gets that it is not punnishemnt but she gets that time is involved from both perspectives to fix problems/issues/mistakes etc. In other words to respect that everybody's time is valuable. It is never done in a dismissive manner, more as a teamwork situation.

[Changed]

My oldest is 7.5 and is still chewing holes in clothes, destroying my things and her brothers and basically anything she feels like destroying. I wish I knew what to do about it. It's obvious to me that she knew it was wrong and was just hoping I wouldn't notice. When asked, she says she doesn't know why she did it. It makes me NUTS.

On one hand I want to punish her for being destructive. On the other, i've yet to find anything from spanking to Unconditional parenting that makes any difference whatsoever. So for now, I just pray she'll grow out of it.

I do understand though, how frustrating it is to feel so powerless while someone continues to destroy your things.

[monkey's mom]

Originally Posted by bdavis337

I want him to learn that inner dialogue that says "ummm, T, is that really such a good idea? I know it feels good, and I know it's fun, but is this something that you should be doing?"

Yes, that's huge.

I think consequences and punishments will not help with this goal. I think they will change his inner dialogue to, "Will I get caught? How can I hide this?"

I'd just see if I could find out what it is that he's getting out of these actions and see if I could meet that need in other ways.

Sounds like cutting and tearing are intriguing/satisfying to him, so maybe start there. And see if a trip to the craft store for some scissors, cheap fabric, and a 99 cent pack of balloons is something that would pique his interest.

Good luck!

[MichaelsSahm]

I didn't read the whole story. So excuse me if I am way off, my 4 yr old son is walking around, so I didn't get a chance to read it all.

But did your son do this because he was angry, or just to see how the ball would pop?
I was 6 when I trew a leather jacket out of a moving boat, just to see how it would float. I am just saying, he might have been just curious to see what would happen. Not saying that he should go out and try everything, but it seemed innocent to me. I'd be more worried if he'd taken the siccor and used it on his friend to see how that would be.

Just my thoughts!

[GradysMom]

time to learn to sew... and sit with mommy till it is done because lost time sewing is valuable to everyone. teach him the stiches - even if he is only coordinated enough to watch

[PreggieUBA2C]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

I think consequences and punishments will not help with this goal. I think they will change his inner dialogue to, "Will I get caught? How can I hide this?"

I agree with this. An example is my brother when he was young. He was so afraid of the anger and punishments for his impulsive experiments that he always hid the evidence, only for it to be discovered a long while afterward and then he'd be punished anyway. We used to find broken things in closets, under rugs, behind shelves, in the backyard, wherever. He seemed incapable of stopping himself once he began an experiment, and then felt ashamed so he hid the evidence. That seemed to me then and still does seem like a terrible way to be a child. There was no openness to talking about mistakes in our home growing up and that caused a lot of anxiety in me especially. I also didn't have a chance to experiment with anything because my brother was enough evidence to me that it wasn't worthwhile. My parents also didn't provide opportunities for such things either.

I assume you are not unattentive and disconnected like my parents were, but heading down the road of punishment for even deliberate experimentation might end up causing a division between your son and you and your husband. Might. I personally wouldn't risk it, but rather I would and have done what Monkey's Mom wrote:

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

I'd just see if I could find out what it is that he's getting out of these actions and see if I could meet that need in other ways.

Sounds like cutting and tearing are intriguing/satisfying to him, so maybe start there. And see if a trip to the craft store for some scissors, cheap fabric, and a 99 cent pack of balloons is something that would pique his interest.

Our ds1 (almost three) also poked a hole in our exercise ball last week with scissors (he climbed up the table and grabbed them from a shelf and ran straight for the ball; obviously he was thinking about it beforehand Umm... and I was running toward him the whole time but he's fast and did this before i could reach him ). He doesn't have a piggy bank, so the only thing that happened was a discussion about how I understand that it is interesting to poke holes with the scissors but doing that to the ball means that we don't have one anymore and that it has to go into the garbage. Our sons break a lot of things and honestly, it's been helpful for decluttering . I have told them that if they break something, it goes into the garbage and we will not be replacing it anytime soon. We may replace a few things later on if we find the need to have them, but overall, I have found that once the object is gone, our need for it seems to be gone as well. I have also noticed that we have far fewer broken objects over the last while as the boys remind each other when they see the possibility occurring, so it's not just me reminding. They are developing that internal dialogue, and expressing it; it sounds like, "be careful; you might break that and then it will go into the garbage and we won't have one anymore (ds1 and ds2). Even ds3 is reminding by saying, "Don't bake it. Troe da garbage! It all gone."

With sheets, I would just leave them with holes or sew them if I had time with him present and helping me, and then I would probably need help with some other things that I wouldn't have time to do by myself because I had to spend time sewing.

None of what we do would be a punishment, but more like as a pp wrote, 'teamwork'- we have a problem, we can solve it together and lovingly; my affection and his security are not withdrawn or hindered at all, but instead, he learns that what he did was okay on it's own (through discussion), but not in this particular circumstance and that we can find a solution together. He's not alone and neither am I.

I do know how frustrating it is though, OP. We have three rambunctious boys and experimentation that incidentally results in destruction is their specialty I posted about this a while back and received a lot of responses about how I must be doing something wrong to not prevent it (which is impossible some of the time at least, so really, I just have to relax and learn to live with it to a certain extent) or from mamas who had never heard of such a thing and couldn't figure out how this is happening or why. Anyway, through relaxing and just observing without moral judgement what our boys do and trying to discern why, I have become much more peaceful about this and have been able to facilitate better ways for them to experiment that don't make me crazy.

I also saw that although their actions were deliberate in origin, and they even anticipated the results, that it would be upsetting or that it was permanent is completely outside the realm of their understanding at this point (except ds1 who now understands through a LOT of conversations about why I can't "just fix it" or "just go to the store and buy another one"). I am actually really surprised that ds1 has grasped this in so short a time. My brother was still destroying things until he was about 14 years old. My father did the same thing and he chose his father's tools (yikes) for experimentation, oh, and fire... My father hasn't outgrown his impulsiveness and experiment-based learning.

All this to say that I wouldn't punish, but work with ds, sharing the burden of the solution rather than 'you did it and now I'm going to do something to make you sorry' (not that that is your attitude, but punishment has to seem something like that from the dc's perspective). If a child is able, I would enjoy helping him learn to mend it himself.

Sorry about the long post; I'd edit it shorter but I have to go

[PreggieUBA2C]

I finished my post and discovered the reason ds2 was still in the bathroom... he had dunked a whole roll of toilet paper into the toilet bowl and was squeezing the pee water out with his hands with glee. He was pretty happy with the whole experiment, it seems. Yuck. Thankfully, he is not resistant to hand-washing like his older brother...

[bdavis337]

Everyone here has excellent ideas and insight, thanks to all of you!

For my son, I have no intention of punishing him, but rather of helping him become aware of the results of his actions. If he experiments with something of his own, those results are his alone. If he experiments and destroys something that does not belong to him, ESPECIALLY something outside our home, like the exercise ball, that cannot be brushed aside. To the poster who asked if he destroyed the ball out of anger - no. He wanted to see how many times he could poke it before it would pop.

I have no problem with experimentation and learning experiences. It's time now for him to learn the difference between HIS things and OTHER PEOPLE'S THINGS when it comes to "hey, I wonder what will happen if......". Those sorts of experiments are not appropriate with things that do not belong to him. I need direct consequences that relate to the action. If he destroys his own toys, books and craft supplies, fine. If he destroys clothing, bedsheets, kitchenware, carpeting, bedroom doors, exercise balls......not fine.

We operate on the premise that no matter what has happened, taking ownership of the action is far more appropriate, and appreciated, than hiding the evidence or stashing things away. He doesn't try to hide what has happened, and I think that's because so far, he's not been spanked or inappropriately disciplined for those things.

At any rate, he'll be sewing that hole tonight or tomorrow, and he's already said "but....I don't know how to do that. *sigh* Will it take long?"