What's reasonable to expect re: 3yo and cleaning up at preschool?

[soonerorlater]

My 3yo DS has been going to preschool for about a year. Last month, he moved up to a new classroom.

On Friday, when I picked up up, one of the teachers, "Teacher S" told me that they had been having a real problem getting my DS to clean up toys at clean-up time. She said that all of the boys have been resisting clean up lately, and that my DS will just keep playing with the toy in his hand (usually a car or train) and kind of giggle when they say it's time to clean up. I'm familiar with this tactic -- he sometimes does it at home and has been doing it more lately. I said we'd work on it. I also said that he usually helps clean up at home, but not always, and that DH and I help him clean up his toys at night, but do our best to get DS to do it too. Teacher S told me we should stop helping him. :

I don't agree with this -- we really try to focus on an "all in this together" thing at home. In my mind, it's not really nice to be standing there, making him clean up, and not participating. If DS is not being helpful, I'll keep verbally reinforcing the idea that he should help too, and I'll make a point to put away whatever he's still playing with to emphasize that play time is over, but I don't force it or get punitive about it.

Anyway, over the weekend I focused more on getting DS to clean up and pointed out that we were all doing our jobs, ie, "Daddy's washing dishes and I'm putting away your clothes and you need to put away your Leggos." Stuff like that. I also talked about the importance of cooperating at school and helping out the other kids and his teachers.

On another note, they've been focusing on potty training too. DS hasn't had much success in this department, at home or at school or anywhere. : I want it to happen, of course, but I don't think big pushes will help. And they tallk about it a lot at school, but I don't think they're being pushy. I mention this though, because a couple of times over the weekend, DS said he didn't want to go to school and/or wanted to go back to his old room. (A couple of times he also said he did want to go and liked his new room, so who knows.)

So this morning I get there, and right after she said "hi," another teacher, "Teacher K" came up to me and asked if he had done better with cleaning up over the weekend. : I felt like saying, "Back off." It's first thing Monday morning, forpetessake. : I said we'd worked on it and that DS seemed to like it when he had a more specific task, ie, "You do the Leggos." I think she got my "back off" vibe though, because she did. I also told her about DS saying he didn't want to go to school over the weekend. (He didn't protest this morning.)

OK, so this is a VERY long way of asking -- what's reasonable to expect at this age? Especially in a group setting and ... dare I say it ... especially for boys? : Before having DS, I never believed that there were any *real* boy / girl differences (other than anatomical), but DS has taught me differently. Teacher S made a point of telling me that this seemed to be a boy "problem" -- the resistance to cleaning up, I mean. I'm usually so laid back that I run the risk of slipping into a coma, so I'm inclined to just write it off as a developmental phase and not get too worked up about it. Should I be doing something else / more? And am I out of line thinking that the teachers could not start the day by asking me what I've done to make sure my kid cleans up? (I'm willing to admit that I might just be whiney on this one.) I also think that the potty training focus in the room is making the new room seem more task oriented than his old one, which may have something to do with his resistance to cleaning up, but who knows.

If you're still reading, I'd appreciate your thoughts and ideas.

[edamommy]

we have had a "if you want to play you have to want to pick up" rule at our house. Since ds was 2.5. He is very good at picking up on his own and he really enjoys being "helpful" and receiving praise for that at school. The school praise really motivates him... do htey just use the "constructive critisism" route there or are they also providing motivational praise?

Is it possible your child simply isn't ready to move up into this more mature class? would they consider lettinghim go back to the other class until he's more mature on his own?

[soonerorlater]

Thanks for your response! Actually, he was the youngest child in his previous class and now is one of the oldest child in his new class -- partially due to the school needing to re-arrange age ranges and partially due to him not being potty-trained. He couldn't move to the room (most of) his old class is going to b/c he's not potty trained. He was actually doing a better job cleaining up when he was with older kids. He likes being helpful, but he also seems to be reaching an age where he's trying to exert independence, and maybe a little rebellion. When he does this at home, my read on it is that he's just not done playing yet.

Also, if anyone has good suggestions of age-appropriate behavior development stuff, especially something online, I'd appreciate that too! :

[becoming]

Originally Posted by edamommy

Is it possible your child simply isn't ready to move up into this more mature class? would they consider lettinghim go back to the other class until he's more mature on his own?

I wondered the same thing.

OP, I think you maybe right about him feeling like this class is more "task-oriented" since they're talking more about potty-learning and cleaning up. Maybe he's just not ready for those kinds of things yet.

And yeah, the teacher asking you about cleaning up over the weekend was being a little pushy!

I don't think it's a boy thing to not want to clean up, though -- my DS has always been awesome about cleaning up after himself, and my DD goes right from one mess to another and expects me to clean up everything for her!

[LynnS6]

Well, it's a "boy" issue in their classroom, but I can tell you from experience in my ds' classes, it can be a boy or a girl problem.

The teachers in our son's classes ALWAYS give children specific things to do if it's clean up time and they aren't doing anything. At 3, they would go over and work with them, handing them blocks or whatever to put away. It's pretty hard to refuse to put something away when a teacher is standing there with a block held out toward you. (It can be done, I know, because dd does that at home. But at school, nope.)

I think their expectations are out of line with the children's development. 3 year olds should not be expected to do clean up without any help and a lot of encouragement.

The next time they mention it (if they do), I would ask:
1. What are YOU doing to foster cooperation in the classroom?
2. Are your expectations developmentally appropriate? and if they are, can you please tell me where you've gotten that information because it conflicts with what I know.

I think they are WAY out of line mentioning it the first thing. Personally, I think they are out of line expecting YOU to somehow do something at HOME to get him to pick up at PRESCHOOOL. His not picking up at preschool is THEIR problem and needs to be solved in their context.

[edamommy]

Originally Posted by soonerorlater

Thanks for your response! Actually, he was the youngest child in his previous class and now is one of the oldest child in his new class -- partially due to the school needing to re-arrange age ranges and partially due to him not being potty-trained. He couldn't move to the room (most of) his old class is going to b/c he's not potty trained. He was actually doing a better job cleaining up when he was with older kids. He likes being helpful, but he also seems to be reaching an age where he's trying to exert independence, and maybe a little rebellion. When he does this at home, my read on it is that he's just not done playing yet.

Also, if anyone has good suggestions of age-appropriate behavior development stuff, especially something online, I'd appreciate that too! :

maybe it's less "not being done playing yet" and more that he needs a more firm direction. I am sure he's exerting independence... it's totally the age... and a good time TO redirect that rebellion into confirming good habits (like potty-learning... drssing himself... brushing his own teeth, etc) and giving him more independant things like chores! :0

[soonerorlater]

Thanks for (both of) your thoughts. It helps to know that it's not necessarily a gender thing. I wouldn't have thought so, but for Teacher S pointing it out. I don't know if it's coincidence or some other reason that it's splitting along gender lines in the classroom.

I'm more perplexed about this becoming more of a "problem" now. His previous teachers never voiced concern about this, and he's pretty good about helping out at home probably 75% of the time. Maybe a little less lately. But from the description Teacher S gave me, I agree that it sounded more like some sort of group dynamic thing. Which was another reason for my "back off" sentiment.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[soonerorlater]

Edamommy, you snuck in there! . Thanks. I agree and I think it's a transitional age -- trying to find good ways to direct that independence.

[jillmamma]

I also wonder how are they asking him to do it? If I ask my DS (4.5) to just "clean up your toys" he looks at me like I am from Mars and is immediately overwhelmed and resistant. If I ask him to put away your cars that are out over there into this box and point him in the right direction, I get lots more response and he does well. It also helps if a more exciting activity is to follow cleaning up to motivate him more. As in, we need to put these toys away so we can go outside and play with your sandbox.

[soonerorlater]

Originally Posted by jillmamma

I also wonder how are they asking him to do it? If I ask my DS (4.5) to just "clean up your toys" he looks at me like I am from Mars and is immediately overwhelmed and resistant. If I ask him to put away your cars that are out over there into this box and point him in the right direction, I get lots more response and he does well. It also helps if a more exciting activity is to follow cleaning up to motivate him more. As in, we need to put these toys away so we can go outside and play with your sandbox.

I wonder that too, because it seemed to make a huge difference this weekend when I said "You put away your Leggos and I will put away your clothes" -- giving him something specific to do vs. a general "Time to clean up!" Thanks.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

To answer your question, most the kids in my kids' preschool classes could and did participate in cleaning up their rooms. I have also had all of our teachers at some point say that the class was having problems in this regard, so this seems perfectly normal.

So, these are new teachers for him right? And a new classroom environment? Sometimes it takes more time for some kids to adjust to the new room than others. It may also be that these teacher's styles are different than the last and he is confused or senses their lack of respect (just a guess/interpretation of your comments) or talking down to him (again, based on the fact that the teacher is talking down at you).

I think it is totally reasonable to say "back off", in a polite way, to teachers who are pushing you or him. I have literally said, "I'm sorry, its first thing Monday morning and this is more than I want to talk about just now" to teachers. It is also perfectly reasonable to suggest, again politely, that if the problem is with a large part of the class (e.g. all the boys) that they should consider changing their tactics rather than requesting that you change your values and parenting philosophy. Something like, "Hm.. I wonder if all the kids might be better able to comply if you said "Brian please pick up the legos and Ken please put the hats on their pegs." Or, "The kids are used to a five and two minute warning in their last classroom. Are you doing the same?"

And finally, it is OK for kids to have different requirements for home and school, and you can remind the teachers of this. And that how you handle cleanup at home is a family value and not their juristiction. I have been known to say, "I am very happy with the way we do X at home but I will stress to DD that she needs to follow the school rules while she's here."

[soonerorlater]

Thanks -- I really appreciate the ideas for responding to the teachers. This room definitely feels different than his old room -- in ways I like and it ways that take some getting used to. I think DS may be reacting to that too. It's just the kind of thing that's not a huge deal to me, so while I was willing to make more of a point of it over the weekend, I was not happy to have it in my face first thing monday.

They didn't mention it when I picked him up today. I'm assuming that means there was so'me improvement, or all the moms of boys gave their own version of "back off!