Let him get burnt?!?

[lil_earthmomma]

My sister has a 2 1/2 yr old, and I thought I'd post this on her behalf. My ds is only 4 months old, but I've been lurking to prepare for the future!

My sisters ds has delayed speech but is bright and curious and normal in every other way. The problem she is having is with ds touching the stove, bbq, kettle etc. She is 9 months preg as well. She redirects, distracts and talks to him everytime but this morning while she was making breakfast (I have been going there everyday to help, and was carrying her laundry to her room) he ran up and put his hand on the warming burner! If he'd done that a minute later he would have been badly burnt! It was obviously warm enough to make him pull his hand away, but he didn't cry or scream and I touched it, it was only very warm. She grabbed the warm hand and hit it HARD 3 or 4 times until he cried. Then her husband said, "let him burn himself next time, he'll never do it again." :

Now I'm all for natural consequences, and if he does burn himself I'm sure he won't do it again, but that can't be the best way to deal with this can it?

[Benji'sMom]

I brought my DS outside to the dryer vent as the air was coming out (hot but not burning hot) and told him "ouch that's hot" and pulled my own hand away from it, then let him put his hand out and told him "see, that's hot, ouch!" So he could feel "hot" but not get actually burned. So now he understands if I tell him the stove is hot. Now, that doesn't keep him from touching the stove every time, he'll still try to reach for it or go near it every now and then. So I still have to be deligent in supervising and saying "no don't ever touch the stove, it's HOT!" But letting him feel something hot definitely helped him to at least understand what I'm saying to him. (Personally, no I would never just let my child burn his hand, I think that would be really cruel. I would expect someone who loves me to keep me from burning myself so I treat DS with the same respect. That's my opinion, anyway.)

[ktbug]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

Now I'm all for natural consequences, and if he does burn himself I'm sure he won't do it again, but that can't be the best way to deal with this can it?

imo Neither way was the best way to deal with it. :

WTF was wrong with picking him up, letting him play with something else, and telling him "NO! OUCH! HOT! Hurt Baby!" or something like that?

Geesh, I'm glad I didn't see that.

[ktbug]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

I brought my DS outside to the dryer vent as the air was coming out (hot but not burning hot) and told him "ouch that's hot" and pulled my own hand away from it, then let him put his hand out and told him "see, that's hot, ouch!" So he could feel "hot" but not get actually burned. So now he understands if I tell him the stove is hot. Now, that doesn't keep him from touching the stove every time, he'll still try to reach for it or go near it every now and then. So I still have to be deligent in supervising and saying "no don't ever touch the stove, it's HOT!" But letting him feel something hot definitely helped him to at least understand what I'm saying to him. (Personally, no I would never just let my child burn his hand, I think that would be really cruel. I would expect someone who loves me to keep me from burning myself so I treat DS with the same respect. That's my opinion, anyway.)

yes, that. i was trying to write that, because it's basically how we deal with it at my place, too, but i'm having word troubles today. demonstrate, don't shame and hit, and don't intentionally let the kid hurt themselves. jeeeez.

[Sheal]

let him burn? yeah right...

Two things wrong with this description...

Why would she turn away from AP and smack her child and let him burn???? : . Yes there is a time and place for natural consequences but not in this situation. The redirection\distraction methods were the proper way to deal with the situation.

This is a classic hit out of frustration situation...yes we've probably all done this at least once (I am not judging just wondering if she was frustrated, if I sound crass, I apologize now).

She was doing a great job with distraction, redirecting and maybe try talking on their level? Make eye contact when she talks to her child (eye contact gets their attention) and maybe even find a book at the child's level about fire and burns (ie: what fire does, why we use it, ect).

I would have been mortified to hear my DH say let our child burn themselves they'll never do it again...what about the emotional, physical and mental trauma of that burn? The doctor visit? It's unnecessary trauma and should be avoided and prevented at all costs.

Maybe she can cook up a piece of meat to show him what it does to that meat and talk to him about how it can hurt and do the same thing to us if we're not careful (if they are veggie that might not be the most palatable situation) and let him watch it cook and maybe get a dialog going and ask him what he thinks about it. Even at the age he is, he's much smarter than (any child is) than given credit. It'll also help with the speech delay by giving him a media in order to express himself on his own terms. Even ask him about his curiosity about it, what is he so curious about - it's natural for a child that age to explore by touching.

She can also set up an activity center of sorts with warm and cold water (not piping hot water but warm) and let him explore the different sensations of cold and warm...it might satisfy his curiosity about it...

[lil_earthmomma]

I had to leave the room when she was "spanking" his hand, because I felt like crying. Unfortunately my sister does resort to hitting if gentle methods don't have immediate payoffs, and because my father is very much a "spare the rod" religious fundamentalist and encourages spanking as the only correct way to do things. I have tried to talk to her about the futility IMO of hitting, but mostly get "wait till your ds is 2" type answers.

I'm definitely going to suggest the heat vent and cooking meat to show and feel hot as I think these are great ways to actually teach her ds something rather than just punish him!

I was very horrified about her husbands reply and told him that this was a ridiculous idea imo, but he proceeded to tell me that his father caught him playing with matches and BURNT HIS HAND WITH A MATCH ON PURPOSE!:

I'm at home now and just thinking about this morning makes me so sad for my nephew. Maybe I can give her some books to read. Any good book suggestions that have info about why spanking is bad/ineffective?

[nextcommercial]

I understand her frustration. I even understand why she smacked his hand. She's at the end of her pregnancy, and exhausted.

I tend to freak out when I have been scared too. I totally overreact.

But, Daddy wasn't actually thinking of the consequenses of his toddler touching a hot stove. It isn't just that it will hurt, it could (probably would) cause a burn serious enough to require immediate medical attention.

Reaching on the stove is a deal breaker. There is no room for learning when it comes to the stove or oven.

They make stove guards that fit most stoves, so he can't reach up there. Also, I would only cook on the back burner for a little while. I know that's hard when your belly sticks out two feet. But, it is not worth letting him be seriously hurt.

Just tell Daddy what the consequenses are to HIM. A trip to the E.R. Lots of explaining how their son happens to have a stove burn on his hand. Money that they didn't intend to spend. Medication, bandages. Daddy stays up all night with a little boy who's in too much pain to sleep. ETC.

I think Dad didn't really mean it, he just spoke before he thought.

[punchy]

Any chance he's got sensory issues? Does he FEEL that it's hot or doesn't it register. If he keeps going back it makes me wonder if there's not something more going on.

Some may disagree with this approach, but I often let my 2.5yo help me when I'm cooking. I think it allowes her to safely explore the kitchen. She can sit on my hip (while one of my arms holds her free arm away), and hold the long spoon with me while we stir. Or she can dump the spices in or just feel the steam coming up. She is very understanding that this is only to be done under my supervision and direct help, and she always complies with that rule. If I even reach for the oven mitts(she's never allowed near an open oven) she instinctively moves at least 5 feet away. However I do let her look into the oven and touch the sides (they don't get burning hot) when it's closed.


hth

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by punchy

Any chance he's got sensory issues? Does he FEEL that it's hot or doesn't it register. If he keeps going back it makes me wonder if there's not something more going on.

My thought exactly. Some kids are undersensitive and DON'T feel the burn until it does MAJOR damage to their skin. The language delay is another sign of sensory disorders sometimes. You might have her read "The Out of Sync Child".

Our children have helped us cook since they were 2-3, but only under supervision. But then, my kids have remarkably good impulse control for their ages. I wouldn't let a child with poor impuluse control or poor understanding do that - just like I wouldn't let a 1 year old.

Even so, ds was burned once - I was heating up a griddle for waffles and it was closed. I hadn't used it once and it was closed. Ds pointed to it to ask what it was, and touched it. The metal was HOT and he got a blister on his skin. Your BIL does NOT want that to happen.

If the ER sees a child come in with his hand burnt from a burner, they will call CPS. Tell your BIL that!

[Rivka5]

If you want to try a different tack, you might point out that it is simply not true that, once burned, he will never touch something hot again. If controlling behavior was so easy that once an action proved to have negative consequences, people would never do it again... we'd probably be living in a utopia.

Instead, I'm sure we all know people who make the same mistakes over and over, children who go right back to jumping on beds after their broken collarbones heal, nations which keep getting involved in misguided wars...

[moonbeem]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I was very horrified about her husbands reply and told him that this was a ridiculous idea imo, but he proceeded to tell me that his father caught him playing with matches and BURNT HIS HAND WITH A MATCH ON PURPOSE!:

When I was a child maybe 8-10 years old (that's been about 25 years ago) I was listening to talk radio with my dad and a fireman was being interviewed and discussing how he taught his own children about "fire safety"

I can rememeber it vividly because I was horrified at the thought of any parent doing that to a child.

He said when the kids were about 4 years old he lit a match and told them to touch it.
auuuuuuuggggghhhhhhh! Sounds like someone actually followed that advice:

[paquerette]

I was thinking sensory issues, too. Poor little guy.

I would probably be inclined to inform BIL in no uncertain terms that if he allows that sweet baby to get burned I would personally see him end up in jail. What a

[bdavis337]

My toddler is obssessed with the stove to the point where I just gate it off when I'm using it. Saves us all a lot of trouble. I've allowed him to touch the outside of my hot coffee cup to grasp what "hot" really means, and he will now say "hot coffee, no touch it!" when he sees anything come off or out of the stove.

He's also obssessed with the bifold closet doors in his room, and after months of preventing him from pinching his fingers, I finally just let it happen and he's not messed with them since. But that's a completely different animal than a hot stove.

[elizawill]

in your sister's defense, i am confident she was reacting that way not to hurt him, but probably give him a scary consequence to keep him safe in the future. i don't spank my kids, but it's not fair to judge your sister. you have a newborn and haven't had your baby run into a street with moving cars, stick something in an electric outlet, or touch a hot stove. in those moments, sometimes moms just react with screaming...or in your sister's case she smacked his hand. i'm sure she felt bad about it afterward, and i'm sure the father's comment was out of pure frustration too. is it right. no, absolutely not. but i don't think it's fair to post about it here. if you're concerned, you should talk to her.i know that sounds harsh, and i'm sorry. and i really don't even care if i get flamed by others. it's just i have 3 sisters and many friends that are amazing moms and would have probably reacted the same way in that moment. have some grace. we all make mistakes.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by punchy

Some may disagree with this approach, but I often let my 2.5yo help me when I'm cooking. I think it allowes her to safely explore the kitchen.

My kids helped in the kitchen from the time they were quite small, too. They both at different times recieved small burns -- one of them from steam and one from touching the side of pot on the stove. Both of these were very small burns that healed in less than 24 hours. They've both understood the meaning of *hot* since then.

I used as much caution as possible while allowing them to be as involved as they wanted. The line for me would have been allowing them to hurt themselves in a way that would have required medical care, but boos that the body can easily heal itself from with a little TLC are learning experiences.

Since this is an going issue with them that they are both escalating, her child is truly in danger because he keeps upping the ante. My advice would be to get something hot enough to hurt him (such as a cup of very hot water) and let him touch it, and explain that the stove/BBQ grill etc. are much, much hotter. This wouldn't be my first choice because I don't like the idea of intentionally hurting our children, but I think that her previous actions have made it impossible for him to learn in a small way on his own. Now it is just a power stuggle.

My other advice would be to have his hearing checked as hearing problems can manifest themselves in speach delays in kids this age.

[lil_earthmomma]

I love my sister very much, but she asked me to get more info on GD as she doesn't like that spanking is the only way her dh thinks they can discipline. I am not judging her, but sad for my nephew. Not because I think I am better, but because I feel that her dh pressures her to spank and punish forcefully. The other day she asked me to find some resources for her (she doesn't have internet. ) I posted on here not to say "look what a bad mother my sister is" but because I don't have experience and feel I needed some advice before I came back to her. Again, wasn't trying to judge or anything, just trying to seek out advice.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I love my sister very much, but she asked me to get more info on GD as she doesn't like that spanking is the only way her dh thinks they can discipline.

Have you checked out the stickies at the top of this forum? There are tons of web sites and books listed.

You can check and see if your local library has copies of some of the books. There are tons of resources.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by lil_earthmomma

I love my sister very much, but she asked me to get more info on GD as she doesn't like that spanking is the only way her dh thinks they can discipline. I am not judging her, but sad for my nephew. Not because I think I am better, but because I feel that her dh pressures her to spank and punish forcefully. The other day she asked me to find some resources for her (she doesn't have internet. ) I posted on here not to say "look what a bad mother my sister is" but because I don't have experience and feel I needed some advice before I came back to her. Again, wasn't trying to judge or anything, just trying to seek out advice.

than please accept my sincere apology. i didn't realize you were posting on behalf of your sister with her consent. i'm sure you will find great suggestions here from other moms, as well as book referrals. sometimes GD can be really hard to implement, especially with reoccuring issues like your sister is going through....and especially because it involves her child's safety. i think the suggestion about using back burners only for now is a great one, as well as a stove guard. of course, she cant use prevention only, as educatig our kids on what they should and should not touch and "why" is really important too. i think it is so awesome that she wants to find techniques that work. most of the moms on this board have done something at one time or another that we regret, and wish we could have a "do-over"....and sometimes we just know our current method isn't working, and we are trying to learn a better way, ykwim? good for you mama for helping your sister!

[lil_earthmomma]

Apology sincerely accepted! I know It's hard to read intent sometimes ykwim?

Thanks everyone for the compasionate and awesome advice. I threw my sister a blessing way ceremony/shower, and she loved it! We talked for a while and I showed her the thread, and she was so touched by everyone's candid and honest replies. She wants to learn more about GD and is going to look up some of the books at the library after her baby is born! Yay!

Her hubby thinks I'm a nut, but I'm hoping that she can talk to him lovingly and show him some different ways to dicipline!