Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Nutrition and Good Eating › Traditional Foods › Botulism from fermented foods?
New Posts  All Forums:
 

Botulism from fermented foods?

post #1 of 40
6/25/07 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Has anyone ever had a problem with botulism from fermented foods? I have a friend who thinks she might have gotten botulism from her Kraut. I've been fermenting so much for a while and never had a problem. I'm thinking it's probably the government trying to cause paranoia, but I told her I'd post this. Any thoughts?

You may also like:

Sitting or Squatting: What's Really Best in the Bathroom?
There Is Not Always a "Fix" For the Difficult Child
10 Things You Don't Need For a New Baby
post #2 of 40
6/25/07 at 5:58pm
Err, isn't botulism usually fatal? If your friend is ok, it's probably not botulism.
post #3 of 40
6/25/07 at 10:24pm
absolutely no way its botulism! it's fatal in teeny tiny doses.
post #4 of 40
6/25/07 at 11:44pm
Quote:
The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that the current mortality rate is 5% (type B) to 10% (type A). Other sources report that, in the U.S., the overall mortality rate is about 7.5%, but the mortality rate among adults 60 years and older is 30%. The mortality rate for wound botulism is about 10%. The infant botulism mortality rate is about 1.3%.
nak - wiki
post #5 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:02am
The wiki also says the death rate is over 60% if left untreated, so it is still a pretty dangerous beastie.

I hope your friend doesn't have botulism.
post #6 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:04am
wow!

: thanks!
post #7 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:19am
how would you know if your ferments were infected with botulism though? but wouldn't it smell or look bad?
post #8 of 40
6/26/07 at 1:00am
I was looking it up, and apparently it is an anaerobic bacteria, so it grows better in sealed jars or cans where it is not exposed to oxygen. Its source is soil or water, and common places it is found: improperly processed low-acid canned foods, garlic-in-oil products, grilled onions, leftover stews, potatoes, and vaccum packaged foods. Death was not listed as a symptom, but I do know it can cause hospitalization. Respiratory paralysis, inability to swallow, vertigo, and visual disturbaces are the symptoms. It lasts about 12-36 hours- but could last several days to a year- ouch. Totally possible to get from home canned goods. My info came from a book by Joanne Stepniak and Vestano Melina.

When I was in college, I went to visit some friends at a different uni, and they worked at a pizza place. They gave me and dp free pizza. As we were finishing it, they informed us they had been cited by the health inspector for having veggies contaminated with botulism. Luckily, as far as I know, we were ok.
post #9 of 40
6/26/07 at 1:01am
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone. She had what she thought was a horrid detox from the kraut, but she hasn't talked to anyone else who had any kind of experience like hers. She read some things that warned about botulism with fermented foods and she began to wonder. Her doc told her she had a high bacteria count in a stool test although I can't remember the exact strain right now. She is trying to piece together what happened to her and find some answers.
post #10 of 40
6/26/07 at 1:15am
Wow. I hope your friend feels better. Now I'm afraid of eating anything :
post #11 of 40
6/26/07 at 1:18am
Please let us know what her conclusion is. This is fascinating and scary.
post #12 of 40
6/26/07 at 9:10am
No kidding. Honestly this thread has me Who knew? I thought botulism was always fatal. YIKES.

It's funny I remember my mother would never buy dented cans (of tomato sauce, fruits, veggies etc) at the grocery store because she said you could get botulism that way. She also said you could get typhus (or was it polio? lol) from letting your lips touch the metal on a drinking fountain. :
post #13 of 40
6/26/07 at 10:48am
In a novel I read once (can't remember which one) there was an old woman who died suddenly of botulism about an hour after consuming some home canned green beans.

Yeah I know, not really relevant, I just wanted to add that.
post #14 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:03pm
I've wondered the same thing -about possible botulism in fermented foods- but maybe the high acidity (due to the lactic acid) would inhibit boutulism from replicating in fermented foods- really this is total speculation-I don't know if this is true, but maybe something I should research more about. Glad your friend is doing better.
post #15 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:05pm
wow...so, that brings up a ton of questions...

can you tell if something has been contaminated or does it taste the same?
are certain types of ferments more suseptible?
what is the risk?
The WHO does recommend fermenting as a way to make water and food saver to eat ( esp in developing countries) so that makes me think the risks are minimal?

:

Should I stop giving my kids fermented drinks and veggies?

Tanya
post #16 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
I've wondered the same thing -about possible botulism in fermented foods- but maybe the high acidity (due to the lactic acid) would inhibit boutulism from replicating in fermented foods- really this is total speculation-I don't know if this is true, but maybe something I should research more about. Glad your friend is doing better.
Well, I guess I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time ) feremented foods can become contaminated with botulism-I just googled and found that out. There have been an increased number of cases of this happening in Alaska, because they ferment some foodstuffs. Now I'm intrigued about this.
post #17 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcarwyn View Post
wow...so, that brings up a ton of questions...

can you tell if something has been contaminated or does it taste the same?
are certain types of ferments more suseptible?
what is the risk?
The WHO does recommend fermenting as a way to make water and food saver to eat ( esp in developing countries) so that makes me think the risks are minimal?

:

Should I stop giving my kids fermented drinks and veggies?

Tanya
Good questions! One of the articles that I was reading stated that it isn't really a good idea to ferment things in plastic-for some reason it seems as if things feremented in plastic become contaminated more often.
post #18 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:24pm
so, uh, any answers?: Anyone?!! I am a little freaked right now.:
post #19 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:40pm
Well I found some interesting articles:

1) http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/fcs3/fcs3330/fcs3330.htm

2) http://www.answers.com/topic/fermentation-food

3) http://www2.cdc.gov/phtn/botulism/who/who.asp

what I thought was particularly interesting (from the last article) was that when the Alaskans feremented foods traditionally (in the ground-not using plastic containers) there was no botulism found in those particular feremented foods-amazing really.
post #20 of 40
6/26/07 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
Good questions! One of the articles that I was reading stated that it isn't really a good idea to ferment things in plastic-for some reason it seems as if things feremented in plastic become contaminated more often.
Here's a really interesting look at that (it's from the blog of a woman who works in a hospital in Alaska): http://tundramedicinedreams.blogspot...-botulism.html
New Posts  All Forums:
 
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Traditional Foods

You may also like:

Sitting or Squatting: What's Really Best in the Bathroom?
There Is Not Always a "Fix" For the Difficult Child
10 Things You Don't Need For a New Baby
Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Nutrition and Good Eating › Traditional Foods › Botulism from fermented foods?