MMR and Varivax Help!

[ErinsJuneBug]

I needs some help from some organized people finding links about these vaccines/info on the diseases.

DD's 2 year check is coming up and i have put off these vaccines for a while. I am SURE that i dont want her getting either, and i really would like to go to the appointment with literature in hand.

I am in nursing school and work for DD's pediatrician (who also happened to have been mine) and he is VERY pro-vax. Every time i have a well baby check it seemes like i argue with him for 5 of the 10 minutes about vax's. Yes, i know i need to get a new pedi i think i need to give him another shot at this visit before i cut ties.

Sometimes i get so overwhelmed looking for info against MMR/Varivax i just dont know where to start. For varivax he has mentioned china several times and how they have been using the vaccine for over 10 years with no problems. And for MMR i would really LIKE her to get these diseases - all the girls i work with think i hate my child and want her to die : . Yeah, its great being anti vax in a pediatrics office!

So ladies, give me the goods!

-Erin

[alegna]

There is absolutely no point in taking information or discussing it. Simply say no.

-Angela

[giggleball]

It IS overwhelming -- I agree! I feel your frustration about "giving your ped another shot" (pun intended? ) I felt the same way. What pushed me out of her office for good was when I realized she had NO idea what ingredients were in vaccinations. How could she not know (I thought)???? She had NO answers for my questions that made sense. She told me that the MORE shots an infant receives the BETTER it will make his/her immune system. : Why not vaccinate them everyday then???? Anyway, I have magic potion for you, there is a ton of info on here, the package inserts that include ingredients list can be found at: http://z7.invisionfree.com/studioP/i...showtopic=1186. You can click on the specific vax for more info. Btw, I did not try to argue with her, I just smiled and thanked her for her theories, then I never returned. I am sure that might be a bit complicated for you if you work with him.

For me, it was more a big picture collective eval of ALL vaccinations and the thought processes/lack of testing/general lack of knowledge of immunity and how it works. I hope you find what you seek!

[ErinsJuneBug]

i know what is in the vaccines, i have all the incerts available to me every day. When i have brough it up i get "it is such a small small amount that it doesnt matter." I got really upset a few months ago when i heard one of the peds telling a pt. that none of the vaccines had thermerisol in them anymore. I got her out the insert of Dtap (which said preservative free on the box) and showed her that it STILL had thermerisol. The doctor had no idea. And sadly i assume that she will still tell pts. that there is none.

I know that it shouldnt be a discussion with him if i say no....its just that this man has been in my life all of me life. When i had DD he said he felt like a grandfather, and i have always trusted and admired him. I want to be able to go in and SHOW him the reasons why i am refusing to let him do this to my child. I get very emotional and studdery when i talk to people about things like this that upset me, and i think it would help to have facts. KWIM?

Thank you giggleball for the link, i will still check it out to see if theres anything i've missed!

[mamakay]

First of all, don't try to argue with a ped. There's no point.

For varivax he has mentioned china several times and how they have been using the vaccine for over 10 years with no problems.

Did he really say China???

It was Japan, and the reason they didn't have a problem was because they never implemented it universally. Here it's epidemiologically shifting chickenpox into an older age group where it's more dangerous. It's also causing an increase in shingles. If the vax were only being used sparingly here, like they did in Japan, then we wouldn't be having these problems either.

[ErinsJuneBug]

Originally Posted by mamakay

First of all, don't try to argue with a ped. There's no point.

It's also causing an increase in shingles. If the vax were only being used sparingly here, like they did in Japan, then we wouldn't be having these problems either.

Ok, so thats another question i had too. I thought that a person could only get shingles if they has already been exposed to chickenpox (one way or another through the disease or vax). I belive i had heard that the virus lays dormant in the basal route ganglia of the nervous system and when your immune system is compromised it can come out again as shingles. So, therodically you can get shingles from having chickenpox, or from getting the vaccine. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. So how would varivax increase shingles?? If anything i'm sure this generation getting vaccinated against CP would just need to get boosters every 4years .... for...the ...rest ...of ...their ...life.

[IfMamaAintHappy]

varivax is incrasing shingles by virtue of the fact that before the vax, chicken pox went around every year/couple of years and was always in circulation. Older people were exposed to it often, and it kept up their tolerance, if you will.

Now, CP does NOT go around every year or couple of years. It is hard to just come across. So people are being exposed to the virus less and less often, so their immune systems do not get that tolerance built up.

So. More shingles cases, because of fewer chicken pox cases.

That's my understanding.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by IfMamaAintHappy

varivax is incrasing shingles by virtue of the fact that before the vax, chicken pox went around every year/couple of years and was always in circulation. Older people were exposed to it often, and it kept up their tolerance, if you will.

Now, CP does NOT go around every year or couple of years. It is hard to just come across. So people are being exposed to the virus less and less often, so their immune systems do not get that tolerance built up.

So. More shingles cases, because of fewer chicken pox cases.

That's my understanding.

Right. And the "why" behind that is kind of interesting, too.
Chickenpox has been with humans since before we were human. "Lucy" had chickenpox. And chickenpox is found in even the smallest, most remote villages and tribes on earth. Visuses like measles and mumps will "burn out" when the population gets small and there aren't new children to infect. But not varicella. The way varicella has survived for millions of years is by reactivating as shingles when viral circulation decreases in children (usually because the population is small, all the kids are immune, and there aren't any "fresh" hosts left to infect.) So the virus just startes re-emerging as shingles and that way any new kids that have been born will be infected, and the cycle can continue.
But as long as chickenpox is "going around", it doesn't need to "come back" as shingles. As long as people are periodically exposed to chickenpox, their immunity is boosted, and they can fight shingles off when the virus attempts to re-emerge.

[ErinsJuneBug]

ahhhh i gotcha - that totally makes sense. Maybe DD wont vax her kids either and being exposed to CP will help her AND i! lol.

Does anyone have links for MMR?

[giggleball]

Doh! I meant to say I DO NOT have a magic potion for you (to make him understand).