Have you tried ignoring whining/fits?

[DevaMajka]

How do you feel about doing it?
What did you do? How did it work? Results? How do you think your dc felt about it? (that's not snarky at all- it's a totally honest question)

I'm not so much asking for advice on how to deal with whining, meaning, I don't really need to hear the scripts that other people use. I've read many a whining thread, and got some great ideas.

I'm curious about this particular approach to whining and fits to get their way. Criticism of it is definitely welcome!

Sigh. I just had a rough day today. There was a LOT of whining and (what seemed like) intentional fits. It was really hard to deal with, because most of it, if ds had just TALKED to me in a regular tone, I would have been happy to reconsider. I think I might win a sucky mom of the day award. So far I've yelled, threatened, punished (I told ds he couldn't watch anymore tv. He didn't even notice- he was happy playing), shamed, um, what else... Well, that's enough to share.

[elizawill]

from looking at your siggy...your son will be 3 in july, is this right? if so, i think his behavior is completely normal....whining...tantrums...the whole 9 yards i don't think you should adhere to his requests always or accept his behavior.....but on the other hand, i think ignoring him completely when he whines may only escalate the situation and it kind of gives off the vibe (only in my opinion - this isn't from a book - just my 2 cents) that your love is conditional. does that make sense? both of my children have gone through phases on and off with MAJOR whining (still occurring btw)....it's like, "caaan iiiiii haaaave a driiiiink. iiiii'mmm thiiiiiiirsty". it's really annoying, believe me i know. with my kids, i just say, "sure you can. please ask me next time without whining though. it makes it much easier to understand you". then next time, just remind him when he whines, "please don't whine when you ask for things, it makes it hard to understand what you are saying". i found that getting worked up at all over the whining or especially if i stooped to major immaturity and whined back my answer (but don't quote me here and comment back - i know it was wrong ) it just makes this stage last longer. it was more of a power struggle thing at that point, yk?

when he whines because he simply isn't getting his way and it's something that your answer is firm, then i would try to talk to him and redirect...but if that doesn't work and he begins to have a fit....just let him have a fit. you can sit there with him if you want too, but when my kids have tantrums, i get to their level and say, i know that you are upset. i am going in the other room. when you are done here, please come to me and i will hold you. you can go back every few minutes if you wan too and say, are you ready for me to hold you? if he flails around like a fish on the floor and yells at you...uh, the answer is no

hope this helps you mama

[mommy2abigail]

Someone here, sorry I can't remember who, told her kids who were whining all the time:
Do you trust that mommy will help you? Get you what you need? Ect.
They said yes.
Then ask for what you want in a confident voice. (she modeled it for them)
They repeated their request in a more confident tone.

I dont know if it will work for everyone, but I thought that was a really wonderful way to address the problem. It nipped it in the bud, but at the same time, reassured them that she was on their side, and that even if she was busy with something, she heard them and wanted to help them.

[Paigerina]

Ignoring a child who is obviously upset sends the message that you don't care about his/her feelings, which is hurtful, infuriating and confusing to the child. It's not compassionate to ignore a child who's upset, just as it's not compassionate to ignore an adult who's upset. Compassion is something people want to cultivate. Ignoring people who are upset/distressed doesn't cultivate compassion. Compassion cultivates compassion.

It's very hard, if not impossible, to always remain compassionate with someone who can't express their needs without resorting to physical or verbal violence. But my instinct would be to do the opposite of ignore my child by trying to show him/her extra compassion.

He/she is obviously going through a hard time for some reason. This doesn't mean you should tolerate violence. If your child hits or insults someone, it's right to prevent him/her from doing so by temporarily removing him/her from the situation. Since punishment isn't your aim, it makes sense to tell your child this.

I find words like "fit" and "tantrum" (not that you used the latter) offensive because they imply a child's emotional distress is less valid than an adult's emotional distress.

It speaks highly of you that you're looking for a better way of dealing with your child's behavior than yelling (back), threatening or punishing.

[Paigerina]

Originally Posted by mommy2abigail

Someone here, sorry I can't remember who, told her kids who were whining all the time:
Do you trust that mommy will help you? Get you what you need? Ect.
They said yes.
Then ask for what you want in a confident voice. (she modeled it for them)
They repeated their request in a more confident tone.

I dont know if it will work for everyone, but I thought that was a really wonderful way to address the problem. It nipped it in the bud, but at the same time, reassured them that she was on their side, and that even if she was busy with something, she heard them and wanted to help them.

That sounds like a really good approach. It's so important to reassure people you're on their side. Sometimes that's all one needs.

[elizawill]

ha ha, sorry if the words tantrum and fit seem offensive but i didn't use them incorrectly. it doesn't belittle the child's feelings, just expresses the nature of their behavior at that time:

tan·trum /ˈtæntrəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tan-truhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a violent demonstration of rage or frustration; a sudden burst of ill temper.


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tan·trum (tān'trəm) Pronunciation Key
noun. A fit of bad temper. Also called regionally hissy2, hissy fit.

[Paigerina]

Originally Posted by elizawill

ha ha, sorry if the words tantrum and fit seem offensive but i didn't use them incorrectly. it doesn't belittle the child's feelings, just expresses the nature of their behavior at that time:

tan·trum /?tæntr?m/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tan-truhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a violent demonstration of rage or frustration; a sudden burst of ill temper.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

tan·trum (t?n'tr?m) Pronunciation Key
noun. A fit of bad temper. Also called regionally hissy2, hissy fit.

Hey,

I wasn't specifically referring to your use of the word "tantrum." I didn't mean to target you. I don't dispute the meaning of the words "tantrum" or "fit." What I meant is when a child gets upset and starts to cry, people sometimes say something along the lines of "he's throwing a tantrum." I find this offensive because when an adult starts to cry people don't often say dismissively "he's throwing a tantrum." When they do, it's usually meant to be insulting/supposed to convey the person crying is being "childish."

I remember when I was a child, I got upset and started to cry because my parents told me we were moving. My dad responded by saying snidely to my mom that he knew I would "throw a tantrum." He would never have responded to my mom this way had she become upset. Because of experiences like these, I avoid using the word "tantrum."

Paige

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by Paigerina

Hey,

I wasn't specifically referring to your use of the word tantrum. I didn't mean to target you or anything. I don't dispute the meaning of the words "tantrum" or "fit." What I meant is when a child gets very upset and starts to cry, people sometimes say something along the lines of "he's throwing a tantrum." I find this offensive because it doesn't happen often that an adult becomes starts to cry and people say dismissively "he's throwing a tantrum." If they do, it's usually meant to be insulting/supposed to convey that the person crying is being "childish."

Paige

yes, i totally agree with you

[mcng]

When my DD is whinning i tell her i dont understnd you when you use this voice (modeling whining) please use a normal tone and i can help you with whatever you need, even tho is not true i cannot understad her my DD doesnt think Im lying to her is just a gentle reminder to please not use that annoying voice, and I dont use the word tantrum for hwne shes crying or something is upsetting her but when she trhorws herself in the floor and kicks and scream, then usually the best thing for me to do it is let her be "ignoring her" even look away other wise I usally make it worst she just screams louder and I get a kick somewhere.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by elizawill

with my kids, i just say, "sure you can. please ask me next time without whining though. it makes it much easier to understand you". then next time, just remind him when he whines, "please don't whine when you ask for things, it makes it hard to understand what you are saying". i found that getting worked up at all over the whining or especially if i stooped to major immaturity and whined back my answer (but don't quote me here and comment back - i know it was wrong ) it just makes this stage last longer. it was more of a power struggle thing at that point, yk?

I definitely agree with what you're saying. The only problem is that if I COULD respond calmly with words, I would. I have a great script, that helps when I can chill out enough to say it ("I hear that you want x. It's hard for me to listen to whining. Can you think of a different way to ask me?" then give examples of more acceptable ways to ask). sigh.
Well, at least it's getting easier heading toward 3, and not harder. 2.5 was rough. Up until 2.5, I said that every age was my favorite. For a few months they weren't my favorite!!! But we're getting back to where the good things far outweigh the tough things.

Originally Posted by Paigerina

He/she is obviously going through a hard time for some reason. This doesn't mean I think you should tolerate violence. If your DC hits or insults someone, I think it makes sense to prevent him/her from doing so by temporarily removing him/her from the situation. Since punishment isn't your aim, I would make this clear to your DC in words.

I don't necessarily think he's going through a hard time. For months and months, most of his requests are whining. Even if I haven't said no, and I'm not going to! I honestly think it's because he has learned that it's a valid way of communicating. I definitely don't think he's doing it to manipulate or anything like that. Just that, when he whines and gets what he wants, that it reinforces that its a good way to express himself. kwim?
And, I guess I'm lucky in that he doesn't hit (can't say never never, but very rarely).

To me, even words like "fit" and "tantrum" (not that you used the latter) can be offensive because they imply children's emotional distress is less valid than adult emotional distress.

I see what you're saying here. I did use the term fit in that sense, sort of. Not that his feelings are less valid, just that it definitely seems like he has fits sometimes JUST to try to get his way. I swear he does. Like, fake crying "wahh hah hah" with no emotion at all. And again, I'm not seeing that as being manipulative defiant behavior. I don't feel that way at all. It's just that he's experimenting with what works, and if it works then, why not keep doing it, right?

[DevaMajka]

I must say I agree that totally ignoring whining/fits doesn't feel right.

But how about if I ignore the request, and ONLY attend to the feelings behind it? So, even if I would give him ice cream if he asked for it in a regular voice, I don't because he's whining. But I might say something about it being hard for me to listen to whining? And that I need to be asked in a regular voice. Then disengage.
It still feels a little, um, not genuine (because I'm changing my action due to his tone of voice). sigh. But better than yelling "STOP WHINING!!!" which tends to come out of my mouth, and I hate it.

Where I'm coming from, is Secret of Parenting type thinking. So, he says to show that you will accept whining, and you won't try to make it stop, and you love dc however they express themselves. But that it won't change your mind, and it won't get them their way.

[Paigerina]

I feel like even when a child is screaming and shouting as well as or instead of crying, they're in real distress, and distress doesn't go away because it's ignored. Maybe (though it hasn't been my experience personally) behavior will change if it's ignored, but the underlying distress won't go away.

Ignoring implies you don't care or it doesn't matter. I think screaming and crying can be a tactic for getting attention or sympathy, BUT the need for attention or sympathy is a valid need based on genuine distress. I think of ignoring as a tactic too. When I was a kid, I snapped out of screaming-shouting mode more quickly when my needs were recognized, whereas I became resentful, either outwardly or inwardly, when I was ignored.

I think when someone whines or screams and someone else ignores them or whines back, it can send a subtle message of retaliation, almost like it's a mean-spirited game of "I can't understand/hear you." I personally don't think this can help the dynamic between two people, but it can hurt it.

I think just like it's important to respond to the needs of a baby, though it's trying, even when his/her need is just for comfort or attention, it's important to respond to children with the same mindset.

[Paigerina]

Just an FYI - my last post isn't meant to be a response to your last posts because, as you may have noticed, you were writing your last posts at the same time I was writing mine. I was just sharing more of my related thoughts.

[DevaMajka]

lol. How come there's no quick fixes for my issues? lol

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I must say I agree that totally ignoring whining/fits doesn't feel right.

But how about if I ignore the request, and ONLY attend to the feelings behind it? So, even if I would give him ice cream if he asked for it in a regular voice, I don't because he's whining. But I might say something about it being hard for me to listen to whining? And that I need to be asked in a regular voice. Then disengage.
It still feels a little, um, not genuine (because I'm changing my action due to his tone of voice). sigh. But better than yelling "STOP WHINING!!!" which tends to come out of my mouth, and I hate it.

Where I'm coming from, is Secret of Parenting type thinking. So, he says to show that you will accept whining, and you won't try to make it stop, and you love dc however they express themselves. But that it won't change your mind, and it won't get them their way.

believe me i know how tempting it can be to yell!! at some point (i think it was a gift from god or something!!) i have just learned to be detached from the moment of my kid freaking out or whining. i just kind of take it for what it is and realize it's not worth my day being ruined because of it....and the truth is ...no one benefits from a good yell (not even the yeller ). your son is expressing whatever he's feeling. it doesn't make it acceptable, but just love him through the storm. your ds is at the age of discovering more independence...and that means testing you a lot, yk? when you can tell your about to lose it and yell, take a time-out if you can. go and regroup for a minute. every time he doesn't whine and ask for something kindly....praise him perhaps?? every child is different so you can experiment what will work with him. the bottom line, keep your cool as much as possible. think to yourself, "how do i want to be remembered by my son when he's an adult?". ha ha, i do this sometimes to help keep me from acting like a crazy woman. lastly....get out with friends and take a break!! a good latte at barnes and noble can cure loads!!!!

[Magella]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

The only problem is that if I COULD respond calmly with words, I would. I have a great script, that helps when I can chill out enough to say it ("I hear that you want x. It's hard for me to listen to whining. Can you think of a different way to ask me?" then give examples of more acceptable ways to ask).

I have two thoughts about this statement. One is that it might help you stay calm to, if you haven't already, both take a look at why the whining/tantrums pushes your buttons so and to sort of try to understand the whining a little differently. The other thought, and this is related b/c it's how I came to be more calm about whining through understanding differently, is to point out that if you could respond calmly you would-there's a reason you don't-and this is much the same as a child's whining. In that moment, for whatever reason, they just can't quite access those wonderful words and ways of communicating that they know are better. Just like we parents sometimes, for various reasons, can't quite do what we know is better in the heat of certain moments-this doesn't make us less responsible for our actions/words, just points to what we need in order to do better next time. I've found that looking at it this way both helps me stay calm, and helps me help my child stay/get calm enough to ask a different way. (eta that I like your script. Also, have you tried (at a calm, non-whining moment) role-play? Trying on different voices and asking him which he prefers to hear? Talking about how people feel when they hear a whiny voice?)

Also, I think that sometimes it is just hard to be little. There doesn't have to be some significant stressor, just the "growing pains" of being little and starting to realize how little and relatively powerless one is. The stress of daily life, and wanting more autonomy and choice and whatever than one gets when little. That's totally normal, but tough. My 3 year old is going through just this type of tough time right now. It can help to talk a little bit about how it's hard to be little, and to find ways of letting her have the choice and autonomy she wants, and to empathize when she can't have that to the degree she'd like. There will still be whining though, at times. Seems to come in phases here. I hear that it will for some time to come, but that it won't last forever.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

How do you feel about doing it?
What did you do? How did it work? Results? How do you think your dc felt about it? (that's not snarky at all- it's a totally honest question)

honestly, when i get to this point i say and sometimes YELL, "I need to hear a big boy voice!!!" or "I can't help you until I hear a big boy voice"

then ds usually says things in a lower calmer voice which is so cute it melts my heart.

i know you didn't want to hear scripts but i'm amazed at how well it works.

[bdavis337]

I don't ignore my 2 yo's whining, b/c it usually means he really does need something, whether it's what he's actually whining for or not. Ignoring the toddler only escalates, b/c I'm not meeting his needs. Not fair.

I DO sometimes ignore my 6 yo. He whines when he's bored, if he's angry at a decision I've made, etc. My "ignoring" is only effective if I leave the area or have him leave. So really, I'm not ignoring so much as refusing to participate. But, he's older and can better grasp that what he's doing is totally ineffective and inappopriate.

[transylvania_mom]

Yup, I tried. I found it way more time-consuming and nerve-wracking than giving him 5 minutes of undivided attention. My ds would whine and whine until I stopped what I was doing or I yelled at him, he really wanted me to react.
If he starts whining and I'm in the middle of something important like cooking or a phone call, I do my best to finish as soon as I can and give him the attention he needs. It usually takes a hug, a couple of minutes of nursing and he is back to what he was doing and I can continue my work.
HTH

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

honestly, when i get to this point i say and sometimes YELL, "I need to hear a big boy voice!!!" or "I can't help you until I hear a big boy voice"

then ds usually says things in a lower calmer voice which is so cute it melts my heart.

i know you didn't want to hear scripts but i'm amazed at how well it works.

Actually, that is pretty helpful. That's something that I could see myself saying when I'm feeling less than calm and compassionate. Something like "I need you to ask in a regular voice."
I guess my reason for saying that I didn't want to hear scripts was just that generally, they require calmness in the first place!