tantrums: should I post this on "special needs" forum

[leurMaman]

This is hard for me to write. I am very emotional about this and part of me is afraid that what I am dealing with is not "normal". My son is going to be 3 in August. Like any 2 yo, he has tantrums on a regular basis. However, in the last year he has had a handful of scary animal-like tantrums (screaming, stripping his clothes off, hitting me, throwing toys, raging, etc.) Sometimes he gets so wound up that he wets his pants.

The first one that I remember was a month after his little sister was born. My parents came to visit and I woke him up to get him dressed in something nice. He protested about putting on anything - even after I gave him choices. When I forced the issue and put a shirt over his head he turned into a little tasmanian devil. The fit lasted about 10 - 20 minutes. The next time was on vacation in Hawaii over leaving a park. The third time was 2 weeks ago - over getting out of the car. Since then, he has six of these episodes - one in front of a visitor.

Usually they have to do with a change to his schedule and occur before or after nap-time. They frighten me because they remind me of an autistic child I once knew. When he has them there is no reaching him. I've tried putting him in a bath with warm water and aromatherapy. I've tried holding him while he's writhing. I've tried putting him in the carseat so he doesn't harm himself or us (he threw a wooden guitar down the stairs at me and then nearly fell off of them himself two days ago in a rage). I've tried holding, kissing, tickling, authoritarian demands ("calm down"), introducing 'yoga' breath and deep breathing ('breathe like the big bad wolf and huff and puff!) But there is no rationalizing with him in that state - only after.

The fits crescendo and then he will switch to a whiney crying. That is my cue to hold him. He is usually shaking by then. He apologizes and talks about feeling angry. My son has been sensitive from day one. He stutters - and the stuttering worsens after an emotional episode (we are seeing a speech therapist). He wears glasses for a rare type of strabismus, so getting him to wear them has been a chore of late. Aside from this, he is highly intelligent (IMO) - bilingual, ahead of schedule for cognitive skills (according to speech therapist), physically active and healthy.

I am wondering if he has a mild ear infection. This last bout of fits started right before he got a bad cold and he still seems to be holding his ear and suffering from that. I will call his doctor and see about this. I'm hoping that they have to do with the cold, but they sure do resemble some form of animal-like behavior or problem. As I said - what scares me is how any straying from routine sets him off.

Today he fell asleep in the car while I was rushing home to get to his nap on time and read the nap-time books. All I did was remove his shoes to carry him to bed and he woke up with that crazy look in his eye. This fit lasted a full 15 mintues. They feel like an eternity to me. It is starting to effect his little sister - she wails and trembles when she sees him like that. I'm at the point of crying today too. I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. I can handle this two or three times a year, but I feel like it is getting more frequent all of a sudden. Is this "normal"? Can anyone relate? What do I do with him to keep him from hurting himself or us? Thank you for any words of wisdom or encouragement you might have.

[Magella]

One of my kids has a history of tantrums just like this. She's not autistic.

A few things to consider are how much sleep he gets and is it enough? Is he sensitive to any foods? I imagine that difficulty communicating through speech might be a contributing factor, what do you think? Also, he's very sensitive so that's probably a biggie, my child is very sensitive-to sounds, to crowds, to emotions. She feels things just so intensely, and that happens so quickly-this makes it hard for her to stay calm, her emotions can just overwhelm her.

So he's been sick? And there's a new baby? Those are also, IME, big contibuting factors. You might focus on getting his ears checked, on talking about his less-pleasant feelings about having a sibling.

Also, my dd when she was 1 and newly 2 had what looked like tantrums upon waking from nap-but she wasn't quite "there" and I think she wasn't fully awake. This could last up to 45 minutes. She outgrew that, but still wakes very grouchy.

Tantrums don't have to be stopped, it's okay to let him have them, but it is important to keep everyone safe. I have had luck with just taking my dd to a room, just the two of us, and just listening (while staying out of arms reach if she's hitting, or blocking) until she's calm enough to take a hug and to talk. I understand that would be harder with an infant. This article might be helpful: http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../tantrums.html

Also, since you know many of his triggers it may be possible for you to prevent tantrums by planning well. To avoid trips when he's tired, warn him of changes in routine, make as few changes as possible, etc. I find that prevention is absolutely the key, and that prevention takes many creative forms.

My dd will get upset at changes in routine or the environment, but that comes more from anxiety and her sensitivity to it all-she likes the security of predictability and familiarity.

Books that might be helpful could include Your Two Year Old and Your Three Year Old by Ames and Ilg, The Explosive Child, Raising Your Spirited Child, The Highly Sensitive Child. If I could pick just one, it'd be The Explosive Child.

You know, if you're really that frightened, your fear will affect both your behavior and perceptions and his (I know this b/c I've btdt, been just filled with fear, that's not a criticism). Maybe it would be reassuring or helpful to talk to your son's physician or seek some other professional assessment/opinion. I know that's a difficult decision to make.

I can tell you that you will get through this, and more than likely it will get better with the right (for your child) approach and with time/maturity.

[lerlerler]

Obviously, I have not seen your child. However, I know it seems like he's so different, but from your description... it's something that happens here and practically at every household of toddlers (people rarely admit it though) no advice though.. cause i need to get off the computer

[melanie83103]

I feel for you, mama. My son sounds a LOT like yours. He used to absolutly spectacular tantrums - thankfully, he doesnt do it so much any more, but he's a year older than your son.

Have you read the book, "raising your spirited child"? It REALLY helped me understand my son, and made me feel so much better too. Your son sounds like he may meet the description of "spirited" given in the book. They are often very, very smart, and also quite sensitive.

Hugs. I totally know what you mean with the tantrums. It's really something to behold.....

Melanie

[mamazee]

My daughter had some really nasty tantrums - so bad that a friend of mine who is a nurse said I should have her tested to see if she was epileptic because it looked like some kind of seizure. But she would try to gouge my eyes out and stuff like that. She was still in diapers so I don't know about the peeing pants thing. But she was 2 till 3-1/2 maybe when she had them. They did go away and there weren't any problems. She just seemed to outgrow them.

Good luck and *hugs*

[elizawill]

can't type long cuz my hubby is wanting to watch a movie together....i just wanted to say you aren't alone. my son at age 2ish had such God awful tantrums that i remember searching the internet to see what was wrong with him. he would bang his head when he was upset too. his tantrums were long and completely inconsolible. i would try to sit with him, but he would kick me and yell at me. finally, the only thing that worked was to tell him i was going in the other room, and that he could come to me when he was calmer and i would hold him. his tantrums grew shorter and shorter and finally went away. he's almost 3 1/2 now and the sweetest laid back sweetie a mama could ever ask for!! hang in there mama....if it's not age related.....time will tell. and if it is age related....time will make it go way

[leurMaman]

Thank you so much for the advice. Sledg, I read the article you linked. I have read that before (when DS was like 1.5 or just turned 2). I guess I needed to re-read it. They early tantrums were just crying and bashing around. These tantrums (now that he's on the verge of 3) are more like mamazee mentions (he would gladly gouge my eyes out during one). I have tried elzawill's approach of going into the other room with his sister and telling him to join us when he's calm, but I fear for what he could do to himself. He nearly fell off the stairs today.

I appreciate the reassurance that he is normal, though. Boy - these are something to behold. They are like powerful and frightening storms. I still need to figure out how to be close during one without getting myself or DD hurt. He could kill DD during one of them easily.

[usandthegirls]

Without havng read other replies

I will say that it could most certainly be a food intolerance. My DD (2.5) does a very similar thing when she eats artificial food coloring of any sort (annatto included). It took me awhile to figure it out and I too was very scared. I thought something was very wrong with her. Her whole body got stiff, she would wail this deep wail and she was beyond the point of hysterical. She would somehow manage to scream at me "I WANT MY MIMI" (blankey) so I hand her the blanket and she thrashes around, yelling how she doesn't want her MIMI. then as soon as she threw it, she would scream that she wanted it again. And so it would continue until some magic switch was flipped and she was fine and she'd come and hug me. Absolutely nuts and no way normal 2 yo behavior. For awhile I thought she was having some sort of seizure.

We have cut out all artificial colors and HFCS and she still has tantrums, but they are normal 2.5 year old tantrums. Not the crazed, animal like episodes she had. There was no stopping her and I could tell that while she was having the episode, she did not want to be doing it. She had a few for a good 30-40 minutes one day.

Good luck.

[4Marmalade]

My ds is 4-1/2 years old and has a history of similar tantrums. They are intense, long-lasting and sometimes physical. During a tantrum there is no chance of talking or reasoning. Now that he is a bit older it's a bit better. The tantrums aren't as frequent (1-2/month) but when they do happen they are even more intense. I think as he gets older he is able to keep himself "contained" for longer periods so by the end of the day or after too many upsetting things he loses control. We haven't had much luck in working through the tantrum together. We're all over the place trying to find out what works. If we're in the room with him, he gets physical with us. If he's alone he will throw/destory things. We usually wait it out trying to protect ourselves and belongings until he is calm enough to be held. We're hoping that he outgrowns the tantrums and gets a better handle on his emotions. We spend time talking about better ways to handle his emotions but it's never during or right after a tantrum. We sit down at a quiet moment later in the day to do that.

My ds is also very routine-oriented. He gets very anxious when there is a new schedule or something different happening. We try to keep things pretty routine and have a balance between giving ds notice of new things to come but not too much notice as he'll spent too much time getting worked up.

The Explosive Child, The Highly Sensitive Child and Raising Your Spirited Child are all books that I've read 2-3 times and found them helpful. If nothing else they really help you feel not so alone especially if you spend time surrounded by "normal" children and their parents

[elizawill]

i think watching his diet and sleep are super important too!!! i never thought to mention food allergies, but it certainly is worth looking into, yk? i think the book recommendations are great as well. if his bedroom is upstairs (i didn't think of that because i live in a single story 1920's home ) maybe you could sit in the hallway or something? this gives him space but if he comes out of his room, you can be there to ensure his safety. just a thougt. i feel for you mama...believe me i do! hang in there!!

[Magella]

Originally Posted by leurMaman

These tantrums (now that he's on the verge of 3) are more like mamazee mentions (he would gladly gouge my eyes out during one). I have tried elzawill's approach of going into the other room with his sister and telling him to join us when he's calm, but I fear for what he could do to himself. He nearly fell off the stairs today.

I know just what kind of tantrums you mean. These are more intense than typical tantrums, and they probably last quite awhile too, yes? If you're concerned that he may hurt himself, his tantrums are that intense that he's likely to hurt himself, leaving him alone may not be a good idea. I wonder if there's a way you can be with him, be there for him and keeping him safe, and still keep baby safe. Is she crawling? Is there a place she can sit that's safe, where you can keep an eye on her, and at the same time be with your son (preventing him from getting near baby if he tries)? Could you be in the room with your son, with a baby gate to keep baby out (but in a safe room where you can see her)? Could you be nearby (in sight) with the baby, so you can reassure him that you're there for him to talk when he's calm, but have him maybe in his room (so you're there, but you could block him from coming near baby)? (eta I just saw a pp's idea of him being in his room while you're in the hallway-I've done that too, had dd in her room while I stood outside in the hall with the door open, and found it helpful. This way I can keep everyone separate and safe, and let everyone know I'm there for them.) I have 3 kids, and it was hard to both be there for dd's and keep her safe, while also being there for the younger two and keeping them safe, while also trying to stay calm myself. I know it's tough. A raging child is hurting as much as everyone else and she needed to know I was there, and keeping her (and everyone else) safe was so important. I promise you, I'm not underestimating what his tantrums must be like, my dd's tantrums were best described as rages-aggressive, long-lasting, frightening (to both her and me) rages. I did find that when I finally tried just sitting and listening, not trying to stop her tantrums and really trying to just be there for her, it helped a lot. (Also, my child would not stay in a room by herself, trying to make her do that created another power struggle and escalated the whole situation. But, staying with her is what worked for us and may not work for everyone.)

Originally Posted by Mama to one

If we're in the room with him, he gets physical with us. If he's alone he will throw/destory things. We usually wait it out trying to protect ourselves and belongings until he is calm enough to be held. We spend time talking about better ways to handle his emotions but it's never during or right after a tantrum. We sit down at a quiet moment later in the day to do that.

This is what we do too. We do the best we can to keep us all safe, riding out the storm as calmy as we can, using as few words as possible. We try to do most of our talking about managing emotions and solving problems at other, calm times. Sometimes, we talk right after a tantrum (when she's completely calm) and have a "do-over." Really, it's far more effective to work on prevention and teaching skills (such as managing frustration/other emotions, communication, problem-solving, perspective-taking, identifying feelings, relaxation). Once a tantrum begins, all we can do is ride it out as best we can in that moment-this is not a time for teaching, or for learning.

Here's a thread you might find helpful, about raising very challenging children:
My challenge, My love