I'd like some advice and comments surrounding a situation with a very dear, close friend of mine.
I do not need a litany of medical articles, videos, blogs etc to direct her to - I have lots of that already. This situation differs from many others of families planning to circ for two reasons:
- previous birth losses coupled with complicated pregnancy this time
- DS#1 circ'd later for medical reasons
Our friends are expecting their third child in about 6 weeks. This is the background of the whole situation:
Before they became parents
The husband is circumcised (b/c "everybody just did it then" - his dad and brothers are all circ'd). In spite of the family bias, this couple explored the circumcision issue in some detail when pregnant with their first child. They agreed that there was no need for circumcision and planned to not circumcise any sons they would have. They had a daughter, then a son. DS#1 was not circumcised. All good so far. . .
First son was circumcised at 5 for medical reasons
When their son was 5-years-old, they noticed a problem with his urination, that progressively worsened. They saw a couple of doctors about this and were advised that the only way to correct the problem was to have DS#1 circumcised. They were keen to ensure that the surgery and post-op was as painless for him as possible and planned this in some detail with the doctor.
The operation was a traumatizing horror, for the parents and DS#1. It was a very sad story about little or no anesthetic, DS#1 being completely out-of-control from fear and pain for some time after the surgery, blood all over the place. . . just bad, bad, bad. Nothing the way it was supposed to be.
: DS#1 eventually healed and life carried on.
Some time later, in the midst of TTC, my friend told me that due to the horrible experience with DS#1, they would circumcise any baby boys they might have in the future.
We are now all joyfully anticipating the arrival of their third child, a boy.
This comment of my friend's haunts me. Today, when I found out for certain that they are having a son, I asked her about the previous comment. She said that they still feel the same way and intend to circumcise the baby.
The short conversation we had about it today did not go into detail about the technicalities of how a circumcision is performed, decreased sexual pleasure, risk of painful complications, etc. b/c brevity was necessary and b/c my friend said she read a lot about this when they initially decided they wouldn't circ their sons.
Things that I did say included:
- If this baby was a girl, you would be horrified if someone was suggesting you cut off part of her genitals.
- Although the situation with DS#1 was terrible, it's not to say you could expect the same problem with DS#2 (b/c docs didn't give any info that the problem was hereditary).
- While DS#1 had a problem that required surgery (the surgery was the circ at age 5) this certainly can't be a common problem with intact males - evidencing that most of the world does not circumcise males.
- Yes, problems can occur after birth with various parts of the body. This may involve painful surgery later. Yet we don't cut off other parts (eg. a baby's finger) as a prophylactic measure.
- Two wrongs don't make a right (b/c she seemed to be saying "Well, DS#1 had to go through horrible pain without adequete anesthetic" as if to say "so his brother might as well join him b/c that's fair"). I guess I mean more closely: "Two bad events don't make a "good" b/c I'm not opening for debate whether the circ of DS#1 was necessary, or not. That's how two doctors told them to fix the problem. That's what got done.
- Let your perfect, beautiful new baby keep all the body parts he grew inside of you.
My friend said she would talk it over further with her husband. I'm skeptical that anything I've said will change their minds. I wasn't there when their 5-year-old was screaming and almost hallucinating from pain. I know that is now forefront in their minds.
I feel compelled to tread gently and with compassion. I love my friend. I have told her that I'm not going to harp on it every time I speak to her, but that I feel very strongly about the matter.
While not directly related to the circ matter, a further reason I am not prepared to act in a heavy-handed way is the battle our friends have weathered just to welcome this third child into their family:
After two perfect pregnancies and two perfect kids, my friend lost two babies in mid-pregnancy (different reasons). Both times, it was very hard on them and an excruciating decision for the couple about whether they should try again. My friend has had a lot of scary cramping/spotting/pain in the earlier part of this pregnancy (fibroid and retroverted uterus have likely contributed). NOW, it looks like she will probably have to have a c-section due to placenta previa. We are all happy that this baby is doing well and grateful that c-section is available for cases like this (I'm pretty anti-c-section most other times). But I know my friend is apprehensive about the surgery and mourning the loss of a natural childbirth. I don't want to add to her angst.
I want to be a supportive friend in these difficulties. I don't want her to feel abandoned because I don't agree with their plan to circ DS#2.
How would you navigate this situation with compassion (and hopefully effectiveness)?
Many thanks for reading the long post!
I do not need a litany of medical articles, videos, blogs etc to direct her to - I have lots of that already. This situation differs from many others of families planning to circ for two reasons:
- previous birth losses coupled with complicated pregnancy this time
- DS#1 circ'd later for medical reasons
Our friends are expecting their third child in about 6 weeks. This is the background of the whole situation:
Before they became parents
The husband is circumcised (b/c "everybody just did it then" - his dad and brothers are all circ'd). In spite of the family bias, this couple explored the circumcision issue in some detail when pregnant with their first child. They agreed that there was no need for circumcision and planned to not circumcise any sons they would have. They had a daughter, then a son. DS#1 was not circumcised. All good so far. . .
First son was circumcised at 5 for medical reasons
When their son was 5-years-old, they noticed a problem with his urination, that progressively worsened. They saw a couple of doctors about this and were advised that the only way to correct the problem was to have DS#1 circumcised. They were keen to ensure that the surgery and post-op was as painless for him as possible and planned this in some detail with the doctor.
The operation was a traumatizing horror, for the parents and DS#1. It was a very sad story about little or no anesthetic, DS#1 being completely out-of-control from fear and pain for some time after the surgery, blood all over the place. . . just bad, bad, bad. Nothing the way it was supposed to be.
: DS#1 eventually healed and life carried on.Some time later, in the midst of TTC, my friend told me that due to the horrible experience with DS#1, they would circumcise any baby boys they might have in the future.
We are now all joyfully anticipating the arrival of their third child, a boy.
This comment of my friend's haunts me. Today, when I found out for certain that they are having a son, I asked her about the previous comment. She said that they still feel the same way and intend to circumcise the baby.
The short conversation we had about it today did not go into detail about the technicalities of how a circumcision is performed, decreased sexual pleasure, risk of painful complications, etc. b/c brevity was necessary and b/c my friend said she read a lot about this when they initially decided they wouldn't circ their sons.
Things that I did say included:
- If this baby was a girl, you would be horrified if someone was suggesting you cut off part of her genitals.
- Although the situation with DS#1 was terrible, it's not to say you could expect the same problem with DS#2 (b/c docs didn't give any info that the problem was hereditary).
- While DS#1 had a problem that required surgery (the surgery was the circ at age 5) this certainly can't be a common problem with intact males - evidencing that most of the world does not circumcise males.
- Yes, problems can occur after birth with various parts of the body. This may involve painful surgery later. Yet we don't cut off other parts (eg. a baby's finger) as a prophylactic measure.
- Two wrongs don't make a right (b/c she seemed to be saying "Well, DS#1 had to go through horrible pain without adequete anesthetic" as if to say "so his brother might as well join him b/c that's fair"). I guess I mean more closely: "Two bad events don't make a "good" b/c I'm not opening for debate whether the circ of DS#1 was necessary, or not. That's how two doctors told them to fix the problem. That's what got done.
- Let your perfect, beautiful new baby keep all the body parts he grew inside of you.
My friend said she would talk it over further with her husband. I'm skeptical that anything I've said will change their minds. I wasn't there when their 5-year-old was screaming and almost hallucinating from pain. I know that is now forefront in their minds.
I feel compelled to tread gently and with compassion. I love my friend. I have told her that I'm not going to harp on it every time I speak to her, but that I feel very strongly about the matter.
While not directly related to the circ matter, a further reason I am not prepared to act in a heavy-handed way is the battle our friends have weathered just to welcome this third child into their family:
After two perfect pregnancies and two perfect kids, my friend lost two babies in mid-pregnancy (different reasons). Both times, it was very hard on them and an excruciating decision for the couple about whether they should try again. My friend has had a lot of scary cramping/spotting/pain in the earlier part of this pregnancy (fibroid and retroverted uterus have likely contributed). NOW, it looks like she will probably have to have a c-section due to placenta previa. We are all happy that this baby is doing well and grateful that c-section is available for cases like this (I'm pretty anti-c-section most other times). But I know my friend is apprehensive about the surgery and mourning the loss of a natural childbirth. I don't want to add to her angst.
I want to be a supportive friend in these difficulties. I don't want her to feel abandoned because I don't agree with their plan to circ DS#2.
How would you navigate this situation with compassion (and hopefully effectiveness)?
Many thanks for reading the long post!
Wow Hugs to you and them. I can see why you want to tread lightly with this. And what an aweful experience for them and their DS1. It makes my heart ache just reading. I can only imagine how traumatizing that was for all invovled. If I were you I would gently point out that what they witnessed IS the pain of circ. A newborn most often gets NO pain relief. But a newborn also has no ability to express how excruciating the procedure is. Maybe they could see that while DS1 experience was truly heart-wrenching( and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy), it could be considered a gift as well. They got to see how horrible it is and KNOW in a way that most don't, what they are saving DS2 from. Just a thought.
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