or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at School › would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school? - Page 4

Poll Results: would you send your caucasian child to the school described below?

 
  • 27% (93)
    Yes.
  • 40% (137)
    No.
  • 26% (90)
    Maybe/ not sure.
  • 4% (15)
    Other.
335 Total Votes  
post #61 of 436
Yay! I'm stupid and classist. :

Look, it's more than I can solve. A school with a very poor population is more likely to have poor test scores, poor facilities, poor achievement, poor teaching, and violence and discipline issues. Those kids are more likely to be living with instability and violence and are coming from a legacy of racism and classism. Their parents are stuggling to keep their heads above water and food on the table. I'm sorry if you don't like it. It's reality. Have you been to schools in the poorest parts of the country? I have. There's not a lot of learning going on. This kid didn't eat breakfast, this kid's mom is in jail, and these three kids are absent again because they're on and off homeless, and these five kids haven't had much adult attention in weeks because their parents are too busy handling various crises. Again, it's not the kids' fault. It's the end result of centuries of inequality and misjustice.

"Test scores" are mainly a stand-in for economic status anyway, so saying you don't want to send your kid to a school with very low test scores is just a fancy way of saying you don't want to send your kid to a school where the kids are very poor. I'm not down with this game of playing "Oh my, shock shock. I just want my kid to go to the best schools. It has nothing to do with class or race." It almost always does, whether or not you want to admit it. You may wish it didn't, and so do I, but that doesn't make it go away.

There are exceptions, but they're mainly that: exceptions. A PP mentioned a school where the kids were mostly on free lunch but the school was good--but it sounds like it was a magnet, yes? If you have to keep certain grades to stay there, that's not an example of a typical very poor school. That's cherry-picking. I can't say I 100% object to it, since it'll probably be the type of school my child attends, but it cannot be generalized.

By the way, I'm no more likely to want my kid to go to a school where 1% of the kids are eligible for free lunch than the one where 99% are. Honestly, I'd very much like her to go to a school that simply represents her city: racially and economically mixed. And I'd sooner vote Republican (hint: hell will freeze over first) than send her to a private school where all her classmates can afford a 10K tuition. I'd actually like her to go to an arts magnet here that's about 50% nonwhite and 40% free lunch. But, you know, that's just classist me.
post #62 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
I'm not down with this game of playing "Oh my, shock shock. I just want my kid to go to the best schools. It has nothing to do with class or race." It almost always does, whether or not you want to admit it. You may wish it didn't, and so do I, but that doesn't make it go away.
I agree with the honesty of this statement. I also agree that a great deal of students in schools in AA communites are just dealing with survival, with academics on the side, really its systemic- but this does not sound like the case in the school that the op orginally posted about.

I think we simply hold on to preconcived ideas of race because of experience and because of convience/laziness. It takes alot of work in trying to form new ideals/insights, work that some of us simply may be not up to doing.
post #63 of 436
I actually have a hard time relating to the idea of school choice. Living in rural Nebraska my kids don't have choice.

One thing I do know though, is that choice, even when its set up to try and help minorities, ends up helping the white power structure instead. I worked in the KCMO school district in the early 90's in their desegregation compliance area. And there were some really sad and scary schools. In the black areas of town. And some beautiful and creative schools. In the white areas. Just like it was before the 20 some year failed desegregation plan.
post #64 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
There are exceptions, but they're mainly that: exceptions. A PP mentioned a school where the kids were mostly on free lunch but the school was good--but it sounds like it was a magnet, yes? If you have to keep certain grades to stay there, that's not an example of a typical very poor school. That's cherry-picking. I can't say I 100% object to it, since it'll probably be the type of school my child attends, but it cannot be generalized.
That was me, and yes, it was a magnet school. I couldn't remember the word for it. As I said, it's not a given that every school that provides many free lunches is low achieving. More commonly they are, but not universally.
post #65 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
It's not just about race, but economics
Which go hand in hand, unfortunately. (Not addressing you loraxc, sounds like you know that very well).

Quote:
If it were just her being an extreme racial minority, that'd be one thing, but even that...I think it's hard on a kid, whether the kid is the only white kid in an all AA school or an only AA kid in an all-white school. It's a lot for your kid to carry, you know? I don't think it's quite as easy as saying that people who would hesitate to do this are racist and sad. The reality is that your kid is going to experience some consequences from this. I'm not saying some kids wouldn't do fine, but it would be a matter for serious consideration.
I agree.

Quote:
And in my case--I'm about as liberal as they come, but is it right to make my child a sacrificial lamb for economic equality?
And, I agree with this too. I am not going to put my child in hostile situations for ANY reason, if I can avoid it. What good does that do her, or anybody?

There is a school around the corner from here, the 'poor' school in town. We are poor, and we are zoned for that school. Gee, what a coinkidink! I'm not sending her there, it's hardcore, man. Too rough. This is my baby.

I was planning to send her to the middle class school by her father's place, but the kindergarten teacher there is evil. So I'm not sending her there either, same reason: Too rough, this is my baby.

My primary job as a parent is to protect my child. And that is what I do.
post #66 of 436
Thread Starter 
I would not send my child to a school where there are behavioral problems (which impedes and/or totally prevents learning). But to judge a school based on the economic status of its students, or to assume behavioral problems are going to exist in a school that is poor is a quick and classist rush to judgment.

There are behavioral problems in rich schools and poor schools.

This is the good thing about private schools-- they can dismiss students who have serious behavioral issues, so that the rest of the students are spared their influence.
post #67 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee View Post
I would not send my child to a school where there are behavioral problems (which impedes and/or totally prevents learning). But to judge a school based on the economic status of its students, or to assume behavioral problems are going to exist in a school that is poor is a quick and classist rush to judgment.
I don't know, honestly. I think there are more likely to be significant behaviour problems in poor schools. No? Maybe this is erroneous thinking. But I tend to think that struggling families, both parents working really, really hard work for little money, kids without full bellies, the sense of shame and non-entitlement and outsider status that can come with poverty... I would think that it would not just be a fallacy to think there may be some serious issues.

Quote:
There are behavioral problems in rich schools and poor schools.
Ha! True enough. And ITA with whoever said they wouldn't send their child to a school where everyone could afford a huge tuition. My kid's dad was talking about Waldorf. Well, um, the tuition is $9000!!!! Totally out of my range. And even if he were willing to pay the whole thing, I don't want my kid in that sort of class-privileged environment. Ideally I would love to see her in a school with diversity re: race, economic privilege, etc. Not one extreme or the other.

Quote:
This is the good thing about private schools-- they can dismiss students who have serious behavioral issues, so that the rest of the students are spared their influence.
True. But I've never heard of a poor private school. ?? Dismissing students with behavioural issues seems tied to class priv, to me.

All of this is why we're homeschooling.
post #68 of 436
I will be completely honest. I was briefly considering enrolling my son in a parochial school in my community, and he would have been THE only white kid in the entire school. My good friend said to me "Are you crazy? I would NEVER send my children to an all-white school, why would you think of sending your son to an all-black school?" She went on to tell me that he would be singled out immediately as the White Boy, and that she could never in good conscience recommend I do something so foolish. And again, she'd never allow her children to be the only black children (her phrasing here, not mine) in a school environment, why should it be any different for my white son?

This is not the primary reason I didn't enroll, but it certainly did make me think in a different direction.
post #69 of 436
Quote:
But to judge a school based on the economic status of its students, or to assume behavioral problems are going to exist in a school that is poor is a quick and classist rush to judgment.
Kids with no health insurance, no safe place to live, not enough to eat, and substance abuse problems, homelessness, and incarceration in the family--you think that has no effect on their behavior? Honestly? Then why bother trying to change those things, huh? Since it doesn't hurt the kids.

DD's zoned school had several instances of weapons possession last year. It goes through THIRD GRADE.

Quote:
There is a school around the corner from here, the 'poor' school in town. We are poor, and we are zoned for that school. Gee, what a coinkidink! I'm not sending her there, it's hardcore, man. Too rough. This is my baby.
Yeah, that. You know, I find that the people who like to tsk about this the most are usually those who are the most safely ensconced in the "good" school districts. Another funny coinkidink.
post #70 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavis337 View Post
She went on to tell me that he would be singled out immediately as the White Boy, and that she could never in good conscience recommend I do something so foolish. And again, she'd never allow her children to be the only black children (her phrasing here, not mine) in a school environment, why should it be any different for my white son?
That's exactly the reason that I voted "no" in this poll. I wouldn't send my daughter to a school where she would be the only white child (like at our neighborhood school) any more than I would send her to a school with all or almost all white children (like most of the swanky private schools around here.) Instead we chose a small parochial school that is about even split between white and African-American students. That ratio matches the demographics of our city and gives dd the nice, diverse, accepting environment that we want her to have.

If our decision not to use the neighborhood school -- with its behavior problems, poor facilities, and glass-strewn playground -- makes me a racist or calls into question my liberal values then so be it, I suppose.
post #71 of 436
I voted maybe. I'd have to go visit the school myself to decide.

I know of schools that have high test scores that aren't what I'd want for my children. They just teach to the test. No way.

I know of other schools that are more in line with what I believe, but have lower test scores, so I'd send my children there.

I was one of the few white children in my elementary school. The rest of the population was Latino. Most were lower SES. Super dedicated parents-- the school was public, but a magnet school. Grades were NOT how you got in. It was a lottery system. Great family atmosphere. No real behavior problems. Latino cultures were highly valued-- the goal was to become bilingual AND bicultural. I never felt out of place, except that I cried when I found out I wasn't Mexican.

And FYI-- I've taught at a school where the poverty rate was 98%. And nope, we seriously did not have behavior problems. The teachers/administration were very dedicated to involving parents. I think that is key. Poverty does not automatically = behavior problems, and wealth certainly does NOT guarantee a lack of problems! Family values-- not net worth-- that is what counts.
post #72 of 436
For me it would depend on the nuances of the academic environment. If the scores are not excellent but overall the social environment for the kids is pro academic (ie, there is not significant peer pressure against doing well in school), then that would be fine, I figure the rest would sort itself out. Really, having a pro-academic environment is the most important thing for me with any school with any racial makeup (it doesn't have to be hyper achieving environment, just not really anti-achieving, anti-intellectual, anti-academic).
post #73 of 436
For some reason, maybe I'm totally off base, but if this school was primarily Asian American or some other racial group (besides AA or even maybe Latino) then this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. If this school was primarily a white school, with the same stats as given by the op, I think the poll results would be different, thus it only leaves one to conclude that race is a major factor here. Therefore this has led me to wonder-do economically stressed black children differ (behavioral wise) from economically stressed white children? And if so, why?
post #74 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizelenius View Post

And FYI-- I've taught at a school where the poverty rate was 98%. And nope, we seriously did not have behavior problems. The teachers/administration were very dedicated to involving parents. I think that is key. Poverty does not automatically = behavior problems, and wealth certainly does NOT guarantee a lack of problems! Family values-- not net worth-- that is what counts.
Great point! I do not like the concept that strong values is something that is bought. If you have more $$$$ then you have stronger ethics-well if that is the case Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton should be off some where doing mission work in the middle of South America .

Yet seriously, in light of this thread I thought that this timely Supreme Court decision maybe pertinent to this discussion:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=11598422
post #75 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse View Post
I'm just shocked at some of the responses here .

Imagine how I feel.
post #76 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
For some reason, maybe I'm totally off base, but if this school was primarily Asian American or some other racial group (besides AA or even maybe Latino) then this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. If this school was primarily a white school, with the same stats as given by the op, I think the poll results would be different, thus it only leaves one to conclude that race is a major factor here. Therefore this has led me to wonder-do economically stressed black children differ (behavioral wise) from economically stressed white children? And if so, why?

Thank you.

I often find myself in situations where I am the only black. I have been spat on, taunted, teased, and humiliated by some white folks. That has never, nor would it ever make me avoid situations in which I am the minority. Oh what luxury it must be to have white skin privilege
post #77 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
thus it only leaves one to conclude that race is a major factor here. Therefore this has led me to wonder-do economically stressed black children differ (behavioral wise) from economically stressed white children? And if so, why?
I would say my experience is too limited to give a good answer except for a few things that come to mind . . .
(1) I would imagine that it is usually easier to be part of the majority group of a nation given = financial status
(2) A minority group that is here voluntarily (here for a better life) typically fares better than one here for involuntary reasons (refugees, for example)
(3) Again, family values . . .if the family's culture and sense of unity can be kept instead of corrupted (let's say by drugs, gangs, little parent involvement), I imagine students would do better
post #78 of 436
absolutely I would.

I am confident in my ability to parent my children in such a way as to help them through whatever situations life may present to them.

There are so many people in our society (purplegirl said it well, above) that don't have a choice in regards to being a minority or being raised in less than privileged situations. I figure that if MY CHILD doesn't have a chance of doing well in what most people would think of as a less-than-ideal situation, than how in the world do children with parents that don't have the time or energy or want or ability to research and stay involved and be concerned have a chance in hell at succeeding?

I am so sick (this isn't a rant at any of the PP's, just a rant in general) of the general population claiming that it's an equal opportunity world, and regardless of your class or upbringing, that everyone has a chance to "make it" if you are just raised well and work hard enough. If that's the case, then every child should get the same shoddy education as every other child.

I have no problem with the idea of sending my children to whatever PUBLIC, AVAILABLE education happens to be around. I have preferences, to be sure, based on what I wanted and what I hated as a child. But if I were to CHOOSE against any particular school, that's saying that that school isn't GOOD enough for my child, and who the hell am I to say that my kid deserves better, but the kids who go there already DON'T deserve any better?

I'd rather have my children attend a school with some challenges, and do my part to get involved to IMPROVE the school, the teacher-parent relationships, the community overall, than to send them to a walk-in-the-park (re: societal issues) school and not have to worry about what's going on in the other side of town.

ALL of our schools are our concern. ALL of our children are our concern. Making education in our society a priority is all of our concern. And making it a priority even when it's the more difficult or challenging choice is something that I am more than willing to do.
post #79 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplegirl View Post
Imagine how I feel.
I'm sorry. I can only imagine and I'm sure it doesn't come close. My kids are some of the only POC in their school and frankly, it never occurred to me to move just to change that. And yet people here wouldn't let their white children "suffer" the same circumstance.
post #80 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplegirl View Post
Imagine how I feel.
I can't know, but I can definitely imagine. I would guess, though, that my imagination doesn't come close.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Learning at School
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Education › Learning at School › would you send your caucasian child to an all african american school?