single mama baby sleep questions

[robinchap1]

Ok... I know this is a sleep question... but it is so different for us single mamas and I have gotten great single mama support and advice on this topic here before.
My DS is 12, almost 13 months now. He starts every night in the crib. I nurse him to sleep and place him in the crib. He STILL wakes every 1-3 hours (usually about every 1 1/2 hours) and needs to be nursed back. If I try any other means of getting him back, he gets MAD. He wants the breast. I tend to stay up late a lot, so whenever he wakes closest to when I'm going to bed, I bring him with me. Not sure how often he wakes there b/c he doesn't cry, just nurses and cuddles and goes right back.

I am torn. I love sleeping with him. I love how he wakes up so cute and happy in the mornings in my bed. But I'm concerned that he can't fall asleep on his own and only seems to be able to go back with nursing. Everyone seems to think he should be able to sleep much longer stretches on his own... and I have to admit, I'm starting to think they're right. I mean, it's not like we're making any real progress. And at times, it feels very frustrating. He doesn't nap well either, unless I nap with him in my bed. I would LOVE to be able to put him in his crib and have him nap for 1-2 hours during the day...

I guess here are my questions:
Do YOU think he should be able to sleep longer and put himself back?
He is SO attached to nursing as a means to get to sleep... how will that ever change? Not that I'm in a hurry to wean at all... but I would like to go out once in a while.
Any suggestions for a gentle, loving way to teach him to put himself to sleep?
Dating???? Just starting... still far from having someone else in my bed... but even just the fact that he wakes so often...
Overnights with Dad? Getting pressure in this dept (he doesn't take a bottle).

Ok... hope that made sense... I'm going on 13 months of sleep deprivation here!
Thank you all.
Robin

[YinYang]

Subbing... mama, we are going through a lot of the same things (though I don't own a crib she has a twin bed instead).

It is a tough juncture for me.... I need some sense of space yet I need to listen to my daughter.

I have found a renewed sense of following my daughter's lead recently. Now, I will say that I did do a modified version of Dr. Jay Gordon's sleep suggestions. What I have found is this (right or wrong - even I don't know how I feel about it):
I spent some nights in a row just rubbing her back and cuddling to get her back to sleep. YES, she yelped. BUT she did take it better than I expected (and my daughter has lots of reactions to things, I was surprised). After 2 nights, she'd just mumble once or twice and go back to sleep.
Now (I've abandoned Dr. Jay Gordon's method and nurse at night) -- she still doesn't sleep more than 2-3 hours without waking but it IS better than the 45min-1hr that we had before. That was really hurting me and making me a very resentful mama. For now, this is working.

Also ATM, Chloe sleeps with me because our place is under renovations. When it is complete, I intend on having her sleep in her bed until she wakes up and finds her way to my bed. (Right now, she finds her way to the living room to me so I know she'll do this.)

I'm subbing to see what others say. Like you, I prefer this forum... our situation is unique, IMHO! GL!

[angelcat]

I wasn't able to nurse, so I ca'nt advize on that, but I id just want to give you a

It's tough. I"m single too, and my 2 yr old crawl in with me every night. For a while she wasn't sleeping on her own at all, and it was rough. The time after she goes to sleep in the evening is pretty much my only time to do housework/read whatever uninterupted.

[woobysma]

I always co-slept as a single mom for the same reasons you stated ....... "I just sleep and I don't know how many times he wakes to nurse because it doesn't really wake me up". I only remember a few nights where DS2 was really unable to sleep (DS1 didn't nurse, so that was different).

We didn't transition DS2 to his own bed until after DF and I were living together and he was older than your DS (18 months, maybe). DF did all of the night-time parenting, so that helped. I don't think I would have stopped co-sleeping until much later if I'd stayed single. DS1 still slept in my room until he was 7yo.

For me, I never had a problem co-sleeping. I enjoy having the boys in their own room now, but that's only because I'm partnered. I've always been more preoccupied with sleep than anything else. When I was single, we all slept better in one room; now that I have DF, we sleep better with the boys in one room and us in the other. To this day, no one in our house sleeps alone.

If your main issue with co-sleeping is the fear that your DS will "never sleep alone", then I'd let that go. When he wants to sleep alone, he will, or you can wait until he's verbal and have a discussion with him.

Personally, I don't get the "sleeping alone" thing. I like long stretches of comfortable sleep. I sleep better knowing everyone else in the house is comfortable. Whatever arrangement works, I'm fine with.

As for overnights - I'd postpone those as long as possible. 12 months is still really young to be away from mom.
Dating or going out with friends? I spent years just going out from 6-9 because that's when the boys would sleep. I'd leave them with my parents some times and just go to the bar down the street from their house. They'd call me when the boys woke up and needed to nurse. That was fine with me and gave me a little freedom now and then.

In the end, this time is really short. A couple years of limited social life goes by in a flash. DS1 is 10 now and I can barely remember what it was like when he was a baby. I'd find a way to get out for a couple hours every few weeks and just know that it won't always be like it is now.

[BabyBearsMummy]

Originally Posted by robinchap1

Ok... I know this is a sleep question... but it is so different for us single mamas and I have gotten great single mama support and advice on this topic here before.
My DS is 12, almost 13 months now. He starts every night in the crib. I nurse him to sleep and place him in the crib. He STILL wakes every 1-3 hours (usually about every 1 1/2 hours) and needs to be nursed back. If I try any other means of getting him back, he gets MAD. He wants the breast. I tend to stay up late a lot, so whenever he wakes closest to when I'm going to bed, I bring him with me. Not sure how often he wakes there b/c he doesn't cry, just nurses and cuddles and goes right back.

I am torn. I love sleeping with him. I love how he wakes up so cute and happy in the mornings in my bed. But I'm concerned that he can't fall asleep on his own and only seems to be able to go back with nursing. Everyone seems to think he should be able to sleep much longer stretches on his own... and I have to admit, I'm starting to think they're right. I mean, it's not like we're making any real progress. And at times, it feels very frustrating. He doesn't nap well either, unless I nap with him in my bed. I would LOVE to be able to put him in his crib and have him nap for 1-2 hours during the day...

I guess here are my questions:
Do YOU think he should be able to sleep longer and put himself back?
He is SO attached to nursing as a means to get to sleep... how will that ever change? Not that I'm in a hurry to wean at all... but I would like to go out once in a while.
Any suggestions for a gentle, loving way to teach him to put himself to sleep?
Dating???? Just starting... still far from having someone else in my bed... but even just the fact that he wakes so often...
Overnights with Dad? Getting pressure in this dept (he doesn't take a bottle).

Ok... hope that made sense... I'm going on 13 months of sleep deprivation here!
Thank you all.
Robin

I know where you are coming from my DD is almost 14 months old and a big breast baby and hasnt ever taken to other forms of soothing and gets so ANGRY when I try something else. One of the things AP parenting my daughter and the supportive group of mother I have surounded myself with have taught me is to trust that my daughter knows what works best to her. And they have assured me that yes my daughter will self wean of course i do know this is true because I have never heard of any nursing college students and that I am doing what is best for my child. As for dating and all that can lead from that I am sorry i cant help there because I am just beginning to even consider dating maybe in the future. I still have a lot of hurt left to deal with from my relationship with my ex. Hopefully your sons dad understands the importance of nursing and will come to understand that you are not trying to keep your son from him you are trying to give your son the best start in life possible and that the time he needs to wait for your son to wean is really short relative to the time he will have to bond with overnight visits in the future. I have been lucky so far in this aspect because my ex and I got involved with a great LLL group when i was still pregnant and he believes in how important breastfeeding is as passionatly as I do.

[wytchywoman]

I have two boys, 14 and 6, I BF'd both until they were three or older and co-slept with them. I still co-sleep with my 6 yo, I figure it is comforting for him and there is no reason for both of us to sleep alone and make a big production out of independant sleeping. My 14 yo co-slept with me and the baby until he was about 12. Even after that he still wanted to have his bed in the same room and still occasionally asks to sleep in my bed if his brother is having an overnight with his dad. All I can say is that they will eventually make their way into their own beds. You can keep a bed or crib avilable to your DS, but he is fairly young to be sleeping alone through the night. I guess all I can do is offer my opinion, which is to say that it would be better at this point for him to co-sleep with you. He can nurse all he wants and both of you get enough sleep at night.

[YinYang]

Originally Posted by woobysma

Dating or going out with friends? I spent years just going out from 6-9 because that's when the boys would sleep. I'd leave them with my parents some times and just go to the bar down the street from their house. They'd call me when the boys woke up and needed to nurse. That was fine with me and gave me a little freedom now and then.

I've thought about this but when Chloe wakes up to nurse, she is raging mad if you don't get to her ASAP. So, wouldn't this be traumatic for her?
What did you do? If you were out, it took awhile for you to pay your tab, grab your stuff, and scoot back up the road, right? I'm just curious since this has crossed my mind. And THANKS....

Also - for me, Chloe doesn't seem to find my boob to nurse throughout the night. In other words, it isn't like I sleep and never know she is nursing. The way it works (for her) right now is that she wiggles and then cries and then I roll over to her, sometimes I adjust her higher or lower up on the bed and get a boob in her mouth. Is this not how it works for everyone?
I like to change positions throughout the night (and so does my body!) so staying in one spot or on one hip doesn't work for me.

Sorry to hijack but thanks so much for this thread - it is really helping me a lot to see what others do and what their experience is.

[woobysma]

Originally Posted by YinYang

I've thought about this but when Chloe wakes up to nurse, she is raging mad if you don't get to her ASAP. So, wouldn't this be traumatic for her?
What did you do? If you were out, it took awhile for you to pay your tab, grab your stuff, and scoot back up the road, right? I'm just curious since this has crossed my mind. And THANKS.....

Well, DS1 didn't nurse, so he would take a ebm-bottle pretty well from my parents. With DS2, I waited until he was several months old before ever leaving him for very long. My parents were always great at calling me when he was starting to stir and they could usually keep him somewhat content until the boobs arrived
I didn't do outings when he was in his franatic waking stage.

Originally Posted by YinYang

Also - for me, Chloe doesn't seem to find my boob to nurse throughout the night. In other words, it isn't like I sleep and never know she is nursing. The way it works (for her) right now is that she wiggles and then cries and then I roll over to her, sometimes I adjust her higher or lower up on the bed and get a boob in her mouth. Is this not how it works for everyone?
I like to change positions throughout the night (and so does my body!) so staying in one spot or on one hip doesn't work for me.

Sorry to hijack but thanks so much for this thread - it is really helping me a lot to see what others do and what their experience is.

How old is your dd? DS2 and I had a rough start to bf'ing and he was probably 2-3 months (?) before we really had it down and could nurse while sleeping. If your babe is still young, I'd give it some time yet. I remember many nights when I had to get up, turn on the lights and still spend a good 5 minutes trying to get DS to wake up enough to latch on. It got WAY better after a while, though.

OK, I just checked your siggie and noticed that your dd is over a year now. I think at this point, she's probably not going to change her nursing habits . Do you have someone she knows very well that could babysit for you? If she's on the high-needs side of teh spectrum, it's probably a good idea to only use sitters that she really knows well & you may be surprized by how she responds differently to other people. Both the boys handled being watched by my parents or sister way better than I would have imagined. Maybe just try it out once and see how it goes?

OK - editing one more time

Your description of your dd's night-nursing doesn't sound much different than mine, except that I got to the point where I could catch DS when he started to move, latch him on, sleep & flip him to the other side when he was done.... all without *really* waking up. The mommy-sleep-radar is always on, though, so it wasn't like I was in a deep sleep through teh whole thing..... kind of like when you wake up and switch positions without really coming completely out of sleep... ykwim? There were a few nights when I really didn't even notice, I just knew DS had nursed because my boobs hadn't exploded.

[YinYang]

Thanks for checking and responding!

Yep, she is almost 16 months now.

Last night I practiced just rolling to her general direction. Hmm, still had to point out where the boob was (she just roots around) but maybe I don't need to do all the manipulating that I was doing.

She loves my older sister and is always just fine with her. I think nighttime/sleeptime seems different though - only the boob works.

Well, I'm not entirely ready to step out in the evening anyhow, but it is nice to think of different options. Thanks!

[guestmama9916]

My DS didn't sleep through the night until 15 months of age but I did see some improvements every once in a while in his sleep. Usually a tooth or an illness would set him back for several months then he would sleep better than before. He finally got his one year molars in and literally the next night he slept straight through for the first time. He kept doing it too! I was very surprised. We still cosleep now and he's almost 4. I just like having him near and he enjoys cuddling. There was a time around 20 months of age that he starting waking every few hours like a newborn again after he started daycare. For several months I tended to his every need because I knew it was a big adjustment for him. Eventually when things started settling down at daycare, I felt comfortable trying the Jay Gordon method. It worked like a charm with no crying. That told me my DS was really ready to go back to sleeping all night. If he had protested, I would have given in and waited some more. All that sleep deprivation is hard. I got a bad review at work during that first year of being a working mom. My boss wasn't very understanding because he had a SAH wife. He said if I couldn't handle being a working mom I should find a way to stay home. Big jerk! That's another story though. Looking back I wouldn't have done anything different. I just hope I have a better boss and a better sleeper with my next child.

[robinchap1]

Thank you all for your thoughts and personal experiences... it helps. And Yin Yang, you are not hijackiing at all... it's a single mama baby sleep thread, right?!

Where is the best place to learn about Jay Gordon's method. This is something I haven't tried. I've tried No Cry Sleep Solution and it's not really working anymore.

I will say this... X has come over a couple of times to put him to bed now, and I've stayed out until 9pm. It went surprisingly well. I was surprised to find that he did indeed go to sleep for him and when he woke up once, X was able to settle him back.

This is all good news... except that it makes X even more eager for overnights. And nighttime is really when DS gets his BM. He doesn't take a bottle and is too busy to nurse much during the day anymore. So I think the night nursing is important (though I would like to get it to a bit less frequently, if possible). PLUS... I'd have to pump all night in order to keep that supply up. Snuggling up to a nursing baby is one thing. Waking up to go pump in another entirely! I just really think all night without BM is too long. Problem is convention says that one year olds should be able to go all night. And my X is not at all supportive of me and my beliefs.

Maybe this Jay Gordon thing could help me get him better naps... that would help so much.

Ok... thanks so much! Love to hear any and all personal stories and advice. As you all know, it's tough to go against the grain... people think I'm coddling, spoiling etc. b/c I go to him every time he cries even if it's every hour... They say he'll never learn to sleep. It helps to hear your stories.

[Blue Dragonfly]

Pumping tip - nurse on one side only at night, and pump the other side in the morning. That works really well for us, and I don't have the whole side-switching thing going on. My supply balanced out just fine.

Hugs to you about the no-sleep. My guy is 11 mo, and if it was just nursing in the night, I'd be good, but he crawls all over my head, falls asleep across me, picks at me with his hand.

Some nights I feel pretty nuts.

[YinYang]

Originally Posted by robinchap1

Ok... thanks so much! Love to hear any and all personal stories and advice. As you all know, it's tough to go against the grain... people think I'm coddling, spoiling etc. b/c I go to him every time he cries even if it's every hour... They say he'll never learn to sleep. It helps to hear your stories.

DITTO... drives me bonkers. We really have to be strong in our convictions or risk getting sucked into that nasty mainstream vortex

(... which by the way is just fine if it works for someone, just not for me... )

Here is a link to the Jay Gordon thing... Like I said, I stretched the plan into like a month to 2 months (rather than 7-10 days, whatever he has). And, I have abandoned it since...

I may cross-post this question in the other forum... but right now, I'm so exhausted by the end of the day. If I try to put Chloe down to sleep, it can take me over an hour easily to get her to sleep... this is AFTER bath and reading - this is pure on-the-bed time. Drives me crazy - I get really annoyed. Now, I can choose to drive her around in the car and she is OUT within minutes... then I transfer her in the house and just nurse her for about 2 minutes when I lie her back down. QUESTION - does anyone foresee a problem if I choose this easier way out nightly for awhile? I keep trying to think of what negative thing I could be creating but I guess the bliss I find in getting her to sleep easier is overshadowing that!

Thanks!

[katydid317]

you know what, f*** it. kids sleep through the night when they need to. my ds stopped nursing at 15 months, while we were living with my parents, but didn't start sleeping through the night until months later when we moved out. it was just harder to deal with his nightwaking when I couldn't nurse him back down. it was frustrating because I didn't get why he need to wake up.

I know it is frustrating when you are sleep deprived, but it does end eventually. like pp said, nobody's still nursing by the time they hit college. With getting my ds to sleep on his own, it took one night. he was 20 months old. He had woken up multiple times, it was our first night in our new apartment, just the 2 of us. the 4th or 5th time he got up screaming I walked in and told him, "mama loves you, but it's night time. you need sleep. I need sleep. I'm going to sleep". 10 minutes after I laid back down he was quiet, and after that, he started sleeping through the night 95% of the time.

[WhimsyMama]

Originally Posted by YinYang

Also - for me, Chloe doesn't seem to find my boob to nurse throughout the night. In other words, it isn't like I sleep and never know she is nursing. The way it works (for her) right now is that she wiggles and then cries and then I roll over to her, sometimes I adjust her higher or lower up on the bed and get a boob in her mouth. Is this not how it works for everyone?
I like to change positions throughout the night (and so does my body!) so staying in one spot or on one hip doesn't work for me.

Sorry to hijack but thanks so much for this thread - it is really helping me a lot to see what others do and what their experience is.

Hey there, just had to respond to this. My ds is almost 15 months and stopped breastfeeding at 12 months, but I used to get so jealous when I heard other mamas say they just nursed at night in their sleep and didn't even notice. That was totally not my experience! DS always needed a lot of help to find the boob and get going, and it definitely woke both of us up and took a few minutes (atleast) to get back to sleep. Doing that off and on throughout the night is definitely exhausting. I can totally relate!

I noticed a big change in ds when he really got interested in solid food, around 13 months. We usually have a bottle and a little snack before bed (something high protein, some yogurt or piece of cheese, almond butter/cracker, etc) he stays down for much longer stretches. I would say he sleeps completely through the night about half of the time, and the other half of the time he wakes up once or twice. But is definitely an improvement. For the original poster: I wonder if a little snack before bed may help your baby sleep a little longer than an hour at a time? Just a thought

And yeah, the dating thing....*sigh*....I have been thinking about it alot lately too. DS and I co-sleep and probably will for a long time. He has never really been able to sleep in a crib or any place else. And even though he is sleeping much better these days, he still has a radar for when I'm not in the bed and will totally wake up if I'm gone for too long. I know that the logistics of it all just don't really work out for dating, and I'm fine with it most of the time cuz I know that it's what's best for my little guy. But that doesn't mean I don't still go a little stir-crazy and want to have my own bed every once in awhile...especially with his nightime gymnastics and "sleep on-top of mama while flailing limbs around" routine. Fun times!

Whimsy