LDS Mamas and Papas #43 - Page 4

[guestmama9911]

Lots of people find porn acceptable. It's too bad, because I think the objectifying of women should be something everyone regardless of social leanings should be against. It doesn't make sense to be a feminist and OK with porn, IMO.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by sbm1001

I'm really bothered by some of the things I'm seeing here on MDC. I've been here for a while now, mainly hanging out in the pg forums, but am just beginning to see there seems to be a lot of liberal parents on these boards.

Yeah, it bothers me at times. On the political front, I just don't engage anymore. After being called a racist recently. : If you know me you would know how far from true that is. This bunch of people were calling the actions of people they didn't know anything about in another country racist, and I was trying to defend it somewhat, and then a few people from the actual country jumped in and confirmed that these other MDC members had no idea what was really going on, and guess what? It wasn't racist, they were missing some facts. I was right. So now, I just stay away from anything that I know I would disagree with. There are actually a lot more conservatives here than you would imagine, but we tend to keep quiet about it. We PM each other sometimes. I say, just stay away from what bothers you.

Maggie, as far as what you quoted that made you sick: I certainly don't agree with the sad language, but I would agree with the philosophy-- if you had to choose, it's better to have people dying in another country than over here. Gosh, there I go being racist again. Anyway, we believe our first responsibility (as in the BOM days as well) is to protect home and family and our home nation. Of course, our next responsibility would be to try to achieve peace. That's why I'm all for a strong military. Peace through superior firepower is the only way to maintain peace against unreasonable extremists from any nation. Again, this is the same way they did it in the BOM-- with strong military and strong defenses. Oh, and a godly nation. That's definitely part of the eqauation, too. That's the part we as a nation are starting to have a problem with.

Well, I have to go start my day. I'll be back later.

[Nemmer]

Originally Posted by magstphil

so i just got "Eve and the Choice Made in Eden" in the mail and it hit me: where is Valerie? where has she been? did i miss something? Valerie, if you're out there let us know you're alive and well!!

Maggie, have you started reading yet?? I read that book awhile ago and absolutely LOVED it!

[RasJane]

Hey all!
Congrats, Maggie! You'll do fine, and i love your opening line. Honestly, I've been a member for 9 years, and I still struggle with the obedience thing. I'm a rebel. Working on it.... So exciting about the temple too!!

Re liberals on MDC. I'm a total liberal. I can't stand the hate mongering I see in so many neo-conservatives. The thing that bothers me most is that currently, the focus of conservatives, and esp the religious right, is morality issues that Christ either A) never addressed, or B) mentioned once in all his time on earth. They completely ignore his messages of love for one another, charity for all, service to our fellow men with no thought of compensation, the consideration that every human on this planet is our spiritual sibling.
What really burns me up is the inability of most anyone on either side of the coin to sit and have a reasonable, adult conversation.
Stepping off my soapbox now...

Is everybody else surviving the heat? Dh installed AC in our room and the boys room. Soo much nicer. Supposed to get over 100 and I think we'll camp in the boys room in front of that beautiful box! Such a wimp I know. I grew up in S Idaho with lots of days over 100. Oregon has made me soft

And, Valarie--I miss you too! Where Ya Be?

[brightonwoman]

Originally Posted by magstphil

i ddon't have the link. can you throw it my way?

http://ldsprovidentliving.blogspot.com/

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by alisaterry

Lots of people find porn acceptable. It's too bad, because I think the objectifying of women should be something everyone regardless of social leanings should be against. It doesn't make sense to be a feminist and OK with porn, IMO.

really??!! you think that you can't be a feminist and still stand by a woman's right to make such a choice? i agree with you that it objectifies a woman, but some woman like that, just as some women prefer to be submissive or stay at home or not have children etc etc. they have that right, IMO. the essence of feminism was and is opening up all arenas for women to choose from. even the ones we disagree with.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by brightonwoman

http://ldsprovidentliving.blogspot.com/

rock on! thanks.

[LionTigerBear]

Hey everyone! There're a couple of new posts on our scripture study blog. Join in, join in!

[DucetteMama21842]

Originally Posted by magstphil

well, define "extreme liberal". i have issues with any extremism although Dh and i are pretty darn liberal, politically. the example you gave with porn being"okay" with parents among their teenage children is a gray area, IMO. i, personally, feel that the age of consent should be around 16 or so for most people and that porn is a choice. i don't feel we should ban all forms of porn meaning pornography that is between adults at the age of consent being watched by adults at the age of consent is, well, none of our business. they can do with their agency what they will do. so, no i don't feel that it is "okay" for my kids at their age now to be watching porn. that, to me, is a form of sexual abuse because they have no idea what is going on or why etc etc. even so at 15. but at 16 it's their thing. no way would i condone it in my home or as a behavior but at that age they are at a point they can, and more than likely will regardless of law, watch what they will.

i take more issue with the ultra conservatives. i worry about the prejudices my children will grow with. with the ultra liberals, although i disagree with any form of extremism like i said, for the most part they are in their corner doing their thing. but with the ubber conservatives, their bigotry is right there and they are demanding it from all. one of my most "favorite" things that a member co worker of my DH said while talking about Bush vs Kerry was this: "better dead Arabs over there than a bunch of f**s over here" :Puke
no, not all conservatives are like this. i know this for fact and i respect and love everyone's opinion when it does not effect other's way of life. i do have to say that i am very concerned that such a blatant corrupt administration is excused because they are anti- same sex marriage and pro life when their obvious lies that have killed so many are ignored. where is the morality in that? what is that teaching my children? what values are they receiving from that train of thought that is popular in LDS culture? i am very worried that my children will grow up with this warped definition of "freedom". with the mentality that it's every man for himself and that what's good for business is good for the country and that different choices/lifestyles/natural inclinations make one 'evil' or 'less human'. i don't know how i would approach that. having that attitude towards one's brothers and sisters of this wonderful world scares me more than the thought that they might have a friend that watches porn with their parents approval. but yes, the latter grosses me out, if that's all you were wondering. there are just far worse things, IMO.

I am pretty crunchy as far as things go- but I am more conservative ONLY because of my views. I am pro-life and against same sex marriage... that for some reason automatically qualifies me as a conservative. I research each and every candidate for every election and don't care what party they are from- I make the chose that I've prayed about and feels right. My problem with the above statement is that porn is wrong. People do have their agency, yes. But if you are LDS- you know- the church and the prophet have taken a HUGE stance against porn and the horrific damages it causes to the entire family when it corrupts someone. Porn addiction is a sickness and people deserve our support and caring to get away from it- but it is wrong none the less. I will never condone or accept it in/out of my home. Yes, my children will make their own choices- but I will not take a leaning on the fence stance. I'm against it, it's wrong- the prophet has prophesied of its sinfulness and damaging effects.

That being said, yes- sometimes I do find some threads hard to deal with. I try to stay away from those and just let it go. I can't control others and a MDC thread is not the place to try and educate people on their mislead opinions. Some people just want to argue and that's all you would spend your time doing. Instead- I choose the threads where I can help or stay positive or give someone some positive moment in their day. And I know that on the big issues- I can definetely find the information I need to educate others and educate myself. That's why I come.

I don't like to see an inflammatory comment made on the LDS thread because on MDC and in life this is the one thread I can retreat to and have some people who generally have the same values as I, and understand why I do things a little differently than the mainstream culture. This thread is special to me, almost healing in a way... and it hurts to see comments that could offend others on it. Remember.. Love One Another.....

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by Nemmer

Maggie, have you started reading yet?? I read that book awhile ago and absolutely LOVED it!

how did i miss this before? :

i was able to read the first 2 pages last night (Olive has been gassy and fussy, poor thing).
have you read the sequal to it? was that one any good?

[Nemmer]

The sequel was good too, but I didn't find it nearly as riveting as the first one. I just think the ideas she expresses in the first book are so important, and I wish more people held the same views, or understood Eve's choice in that way. It was very eye-opening for me.

[brightonwoman]

OT--vaccination

We do delayed/selective vax. I am still researching, but as I reach conclusions about each vax, I am posting little articles on my blog. If anyone is interested, you can see them at www.brightonwoman.blogspot.com and you can search under 'vaccination' in 'topics' on the right hand column (I also have links to all my resources--including your articles Alisa, thank you so much they rock!!!)

[guestmama9911]

Originally Posted by magstphil

really??!! you think that you can't be a feminist and still stand by a woman's right to make such a choice? i agree with you that it objectifies a woman, but some woman like that, just as some women prefer to be submissive or stay at home or not have children etc etc. they have that right, IMO. the essence of feminism was and is opening up all arenas for women to choose from. even the ones we disagree with.

I think it goes along the same lines as the women here who think that if a woman consents to being abused, its her right and her business. Whether it is women objectifying women or men doing it, it isn't healthy and promotes a twisted view of the value of women. When a woman involves herself in porn, it isn just her choice anymore, she's promoting it publically as acceptable and I don't think it should be. Porn is a stain and a curse.

[guestmama9911]

Originally Posted by brightonwoman

We do delayed/selective vax. I am still researching, but as I reach conclusions about each vax, I am posting little articles on my blog. If anyone is interested, you can see them at www.brightonwoman.blogspot.com and you can search under 'vaccination' in 'topics' on the right hand column (I also have links to all my resources--including your articles Alisa, thank you so much they rock!!!)

Why thank you, they do rock!!!!

Sorry - pregnant and in need of attention.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by alisaterry

I think it goes along the same lines as the women here who think that if a woman consents to being abused, its her right and her business. Whether it is women objectifying women or men doing it, it isn't healthy and promotes a twisted view of the value of women. When a woman involves herself in porn, it isn just her choice anymore, she's promoting it publically as acceptable and I don't think it should be. Porn is a stain and a curse.

i can see where you are coming from with this but i still have to disagree. and i'll leave it at that because i don't want this thread shut down for going OT.

i will say though that we need to remember that not all answer to the Prophet and that is their God given right. yes, the Prophet has pointed out the disturbing affects of pornography. yes, i agree with him as a one time porn addict myself. but simply because our beliefs dictate our lives and the way we choose to lead them does not mean we have the right to inflict that on others. we need to leave people's agency up to them when it does not involve us or other unwillingly.

[frogleymom]

Originally Posted by magstphil

we need to leave people's agency up to them when it does not involve us or other unwillingly.

The problem with this thought is that porn and other sins DO involve more people than just the transgressor. Just the fact that internet porn is so prevelent and somehow reared its ugly head in my parents house (one of my brothers... on accident), has caused my parents to do everything in their power to protect their family from the evils of porn. This means that my brothers are only allowed to use the "kids" computer, the rest of us are not allowed to share passwords, or even log in and hand the computer over to someone else. We also have to set computers to lock automatically when we walk away from them. My father also set up some security things that only allow my brothers online during after-work hours, when someone is home to monitor them, and they also have time limits on internet use.

One minor incident has caused inconveniences for everyone in the house (currently 11 of us living here)... and that's just within our house. I had some lenghty discussions with a professor at BYU about how porn affects family life and it's really scary how even a "small addiction" can completely destroy or handicap a wonderful "celestial" marriage. I will not ever accept that someone can make the choice because it doesn't affect me... somehow it will affect me.

I do believe we should be doing all we can to educate the world on the consequences of their actions... MDC might not be the best place to start that... but it can't hurt to stand up for our values, or at least not accept the wrong choices of others. I think it's perfectly acceptable to love the person and hate the sin... and I see no problem expressing my abhorance of sins... porn in particular.

Emily

[LionTigerBear]

Jenni, I loved your recent blog post on circumcision. : I'm in awe. I've been working on a post on circumcision for my blog for . . . many weeks. Still working on it.

[LionTigerBear]

Emily, thank you for reminding us that porn affects more people than just the transgressor. I want to offer a big hug to anyone for whom this topic raises painful memories or issues.

[holyhelianthus]

i understand more about porn addiction and it's effects on others than one might think. but it is such a gray area. every action we take somehow in some way effects others, yes? it's the degree of how that effects others that we need to take into consideration. porns effects on others that are not the transgressor are within themselves not a part of pornography but rather the action of watching it and the addiction to it. in essence- it's not pornography's fault within itself. sadly, banning pornography as a law would do little to nothing to "protect" from sexual addictions or perversions. pornography is a symptom not the illness.
there is so much to consider here and i think i am talking in a lot of aspects at once. i am trying to convey that yes, i do feel pornography is a sin and is disgusting but i also feel legislation banning all forms of consensual pornography will get us nowhere and is an abuse of agency. banning it in ones own life and home is another thing. one (myself included) is within their rights. but when we (general "we") reach over into someone else's life/home and demand a morality that they do not subscribe to from them that is wrong both within "worldly" laws and the other.
yes pornography, premarital sex, smoking, bar hoping, etc etc is wrong but not anyone but the person's issue until that person steps over the line. for example- bar hopping is what it is. i disagree but one can do what they are going to do. it is when that person, drunk off their bum, decides to get behind the wheel that we have a say and every right to it because that person is endangering us and others. being that drunk within itself is a none issue. yes, it might hurt dear old mom's feelings but that is, well, a fact of life and a PERSONAL matter that dear old mom can take up with her son later.
if one chooses to limit their children's interaction with another child who is allowed to watch porn, great! i am right there with you. but when we start talking about porn needing to be illegalized i raise my eyebrow a bit. i can't think of how we would have a right to do that. simply disagreeing with it isn't enough.
but i doubt i am making any sense...

[frogleymom]

Originally Posted by magstphil

i am trying to convey that yes, i do feel pornography is a sin and is disgusting but i also feel legislation banning all forms of consensual pornography will get us nowhere and is an abuse of agency.

This I completely agree with. We do have our agency and do not have the right to take that agency away from others. (Though I do believe parents have a right and responsibility to do their best to protect their children.) That's why I mentioned in my last post that we should be doing our best to educate others.

Going back to the Christ-like parenting discussion... I believe that our role as parents is to educate our children that their actions have consequences and help them see what those consequences are. Hopefully, they will make good choices if they are aware of the pleasant and unpleasant consequences. We do not have the right to force others to make correct choices, but I do believe we should be doing better in our "missionary" efforts. When others have their options in front of them and make bad decisions... that's their choice, and their sin... which they will have to repent of.

Emily