Do you think tongue tie is related to diet?

[Nan'sMom]

There are no specific references to this in the WAPF articles, but I am very curious about causation of tongue tie. There seems to be no evolutionary advantage to it, and LCs I've spoken to think there's a genetic component (which could be inherited nutritional). I know many people who have had this issue, and my two children had tongue tie (only had to be clipped with dd1).

There are WAPF references to high arched palates, which seem to present with tongue tie...but just no specific references to tongue tie.

Anyway, I'd love any information people have on this, for my own education and to pass along to my LC, who has been seeing a LOT of it in the last few years.

Thanks!

[quietserena]

I read somewhere on these forums that it can be from lack of vitamin A in the mother's diet. I don't have any references though and I'd love to see some.

[desertpenguin]

i don't have any references but i ate a SAD when pregnant with ds and he had tongue tie that gave him a heart shaped tongue. he had it clipped when he was 2 mo or so. i don't think he has a high arch palate though, but i'm not sure how i would tell if he did or not. incidentally, my dh has a cousin that was born on the same day as my ds (nov. 22) who also has tongue tie that resulted in a heart shaped tongue, but he never had his frenulum clipped. his mother was a drug addict though and you can tell by the shape of his face that he had nutritional deficits, it's very long and narrow and i think he might possibly have a deviated septum as well.

[Panserbjorne]

YES. I'll post later...crying baby.

[Panserbjorne]

I think you are correct that it is an inherited nutritional issue, as the studies all show that it gets progressively worse with each child. However, when mother's diet improves this is not hte case. In my own experience, dd is terribly tied, both in the lingual and labial frenulum. My diet was leaps and bounds better (whole foods, grain free, soy free etc.) when pregnant with ds. Although he was still tied, it wasn't as badly as dd whose speech, dentition and structure are all affected.

There are several studies being done now to determine what the nutrient is that affects it-I believe it is vitamin A, though I have no "proof."

A high palate is generally seen with TT as the tongue cannot actively draw it down and spread it.

[momto5girls]

Originally Posted by firefaery

I think you are correct that it is an inherited nutritional issue, as the studies all show that it gets progressively worse with each child. However, when mother's diet improves this is not hte case. In my own experience, dd is terribly tied, both in the lingual and labial frenulum. My diet was leaps and bounds better (whole foods, grain free, soy free etc.) when pregnant with ds. Although he was still tied, it wasn't as badly as dd whose speech, dentition and structure are all affected.

There are several studies being done now to determine what the nutrient is that affects it-I believe it is vitamin A, though I have no "proof."

A high palate is generally seen with TT as the tongue cannot actively draw it down and spread it.

This thread has been interesting to me, as my 5th dd has a really high palate. She is not tongue tied, but the lactation consultant thought it was a possibility due to her latch issues in the beginning. Is there anything I can do nutritionally now to help her with that high palate? She's only 5 months old and not on solids yet, but I'll put her on CLO once she has started solids.

[quietserena]

I asked that same question of myself not too long ago and the answer I came up with is that basically I need to provide more nutritionally dense foods for myself. DD is 10 months old and not really eating many solids. I've resolved to improve my bone broth intake for the minerals and my CLO intake for the vitamins. I soak my legumes and grains, though I do much better when I'm wheat free since bread is such a craving for me.

[Lia & Eva's Mama]

i'm tongue tied and my oldest daughter too. i ate very healthy all the time. with my second daughter all i craved was garbage, i ate tons of candy and everything else i would never normally eat, she was born with a free tongue. i have not had mine cut nor will i, i will cut DD's if i see a speech problem other than that i'll leave it alone.
i dunno how much of this is true, it may just be genetic.
its kind of like saying that a cleft lip is caused by poor nutrition.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by quietserena

I asked that same question of myself not too long ago and the answer I came up with is that basically I need to provide more nutritionally dense foods for myself. DD is 10 months old and not really eating many solids. I've resolved to improve my bone broth intake for the minerals and my CLO intake for the vitamins. I soak my legumes and grains, though I do much better when I'm wheat free since bread is such a craving for me.

I think that's a great approach. JaneS posted that her son's teeth spaced after feeding him nutrient dense foods for two years which I wouldn't have though was possible, so I think it would be a cool experiment. Besides, what could go wrong when eating really well?

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by Lia & Eva's Mama

i'm tongue tied and my oldest daughter too. i ate very healthy all the time. with my second daughter all i craved was garbage, i ate tons of candy and everything else i would never normally eat, she was born with a free tongue. i have not had mine cut nor will i, i will cut DD's if i see a speech problem other than that i'll leave it alone.
i dunno how much of this is true, it may just be genetic.
its kind of like saying that a cleft lip is caused by poor nutrition.

I think it's not just about what is put in your body, but what is absorbed. Eating "healthy" is very subjective. If, for instance, you were eating a low fat, meat free, soy filled, somewhat processed diet the first time around which is considered to be healthy by the mainstream, and then with the second you were eating a higher fat diet, lots of eggs, tons of produce, soy free diet that also contained a bunch of candy-well, you're body would have had access to more nutrients even with the garbage-you know?

We actively chased down answers because TT can be responsible for many other things besides speech difficulty. Ds has allergies and slow peristalsis which are both linked to TT, as is sleep apnea and I didn't want to ever see that.

[kbchavez]

Originally Posted by Lia & Eva's Mama

i'm tongue tied and my oldest daughter too. i ate very healthy all the time. with my second daughter all i craved was garbage, i ate tons of candy and everything else i would never normally eat, she was born with a free tongue. i have not had mine cut nor will i, i will cut DD's if i see a speech problem other than that i'll leave it alone.
i dunno how much of this is true, it may just be genetic.
its kind of like saying that a cleft lip is caused by poor nutrition.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it pretty well established that cleft palates and club feet are caused by vitamin A deficiency duriing pregnancy? These things are much more common in places where there is widespread hunger.

[tanyalynn]

Are tongue-tie, thick frenulum between the top teeth, and dimples at all related? I'm just entering the arena of nutrition and dental/facial health, but it seems like they're all related to too much tightness, or constriction, in or around the mouth. And I'm reading a lot of old threads on Price's work and nutrition, and I'm starting to read his book (just starting, so I'm not enlightened much yet), but it's made me wonder.

On a personal level I'm wondering because my son has serious dimples, and (separately, not because of this) I have concerns about his health, because mine took a nosedive halfway through the pregnancy. And so I wonder if the dimples are just dimples (I can't think of anyone in the family who has them), or if they're a sign of what was missing during the pregnancy.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Are tongue-tie, thick frenulum between the top teeth, and dimples at all related? I'm just entering the arena of nutrition and dental/facial health, but it seems like they're all related to too much tightness, or constriction, in or around the mouth. And I'm reading a lot of old threads on Price's work and nutrition, and I'm starting to read his book (just starting, so I'm not enlightened much yet), but it's made me wonder.

On a personal level I'm wondering because my son has serious dimples, and (separately, not because of this) I have concerns about his health, because mine took a nosedive halfway through the pregnancy. And so I wonder if the dimples are just dimples (I can't think of anyone in the family who has them), or if they're a sign of what was missing during the pregnancy.

Interesting. Ds1 has no sign of TT and no dimples. Dd's TT is the worst and she has two dimples. Ds2 was tied, not as bad as dd and has one dimple...never thought about it before.

[krankedyann]

My husband and I and both of my children have dimples, and none of us were tounge-tied. I've never heard of a connection to that in the studing I have done to work on becoming a Lactation Conusltant. Dimples are a hereditary, regressive trait. So it makes sense that it could pop up even though no one else has it, as it is regressive.

[Panserbjorne]

yeah-after I posted that I realized that dh has dimples but no TT. He was checked (as was I) for both anterior and posterior ties...neither of us have either.

[turtlewomyn]

DD was tongue tied and I ate a lot of vitamin A foods during her pregnancy (lots of sweet potatoes, papaya, mango, etc.). My mother remembers them clipping her tongue tie when she was getting her dentures in, so it does run in my family.

[Marsupialmom]

I can't see dimples and tounge tie being connected (Or my dh's side of the family would have a lot of issues with being tounge tied).

I do think there is more than one cause than maternial diet. My mom's side of the family has issues with high pallets and tounge tied but if you look at pictures you will notices certain genetically passed on facial features that those people had issues with being tounge tied. I have a set of cousins that are faternial twins. The one that looks like my mom's side of the family was severly tounge tied the other one that looked more like his father didn't.

Being tounge tied was an issue that my mom and grandma warned me about when I was pregnant with my first. They warn me for what to watch for and told me to make the doctors clip. None of my kids were tounge tied but all look more like their fathers than me.

[kbchavez]

Originally Posted by turtlewomyn

DD was tongue tied and I ate a lot of vitamin A foods during her pregnancy (lots of sweet potatoes, papaya, mango, etc.). My mother remembers them clipping her tongue tie when she was getting her dentures in, so it does run in my family.

There is no preformed vit. A in those foods-- it's only found in animal fats. Orange fruits and veggies are loaded with beta-carotene, which the body can convert to true vit. A, but not that efficiently, and only in the presence of other nutritional elements that could be lacking if avoiding healthy animal foods. This is why healthy traditional people sought out foods like fish eggs, liver, and dark yellow butter for women of childbearing age. There is a lot of great info on vit. A at westonaprice.org, and in the book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston Price.

[desertpenguin]

my biological mother and myself (and i think my bio. grandmother as well, but not sure, don't really know her) have major dimples. no tongue tie, but we do have overbites. ds has an overbite and had tongue tie, and i think he has shallow dimples, barely noticeable. in fact i think i'm the only one who thinks he has them.