23 month old - this goes beyond constipation - please advise - Page 2

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by momto l&a

Can you up his C intake? That should help him go more regularly.

I know of a person who use to go once a week and since upping their C level go everyday.

Yes, and I definitely have been, as much as possible. I give him SA daily in his green smoothie.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by izobelle

Vitamins and minerals are great, but if they are to treat a symptom (constipation or poor digestion) without treating the cause (none of us have any idea) then they are only a short-term solution.

Breastfed babies- that is, infants- DO go for long periods without poops. However, I don't think that's the norm for toddlers who are eating mainly solids. Also, I am particularly worried about the fact that everything's coming out whole.

The entire digestive system, liver, kidneys, intestines, stomach, etc. all contribute juices to the digestive process. Any kind of laxative, "natural" or otherwise, is not going to heal every single organ.

It just really sounds to me that this is not something that can easily be figured out on a message board, you know? I really hope that you manage to find a trustworthy and kind doctor who will listen and help you work through this.

I don't have an expectation of easily figuring this out. What I AM looking for here is Mamas who have BTDT, and may have some suggestions for things that worked for them (naturally). There are a lot of very educated and well-researched Mamas here and "two heads are better than one" in these situations.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by izobelle
Vitamins and minerals are great, but if they are to treat a symptom (constipation or poor digestion) without treating the cause (none of us have any idea) then they are only a short-term solution.

Breastfed babies- that is, infants- DO go for long periods without poops. However, I don't think that's the norm for toddlers who are eating mainly solids. Also, I am particularly worried about the fact that everything's coming out whole.

The entire digestive system, liver, kidneys, intestines, stomach, etc. all contribute juices to the digestive process. Any kind of laxative, "natural" or otherwise, is not going to heal every single organ.

It just really sounds to me that this is not something that can easily be figured out on a message board, you know? I really hope that you manage to find a trustworthy and kind doctor who will listen and help you work through this.

Isn't it possible that the underlying cause is a vitamin or mineral deficiency? Won't the right balance of nutrition/vitamins/minerals/enzymes (if it can be found) contribute to the healing of the digestive organs?

I did see a ped for DD's constipation, and she prescribed lactulose (which she said was like fiber), which is a synthesis of sugars designed to draw water out of the bowel into the stool, and could potentially cause dehydration. She indicated that she prefers this route to making diet modifications or adding supplements.

My thinking is that if you have a problem that certain foods aggravate, you should avoid them until you resolve the problem. And, if magnesium or vitamin C deficiency were the cause, then taking supplements and/or getting the right amount in your diet would be "treating the cuase"... wouldn't it?

Also, FWIW, my 12 mo DD is primarily BF, not mostly on solids, but her once per week stools are DEFINITELY constipation. They are too firm and she strains to the point of causing small fissures, even though she was going at the same frequency on 100% BM (now 85% BM).

[CarrieMF]

How much of these things were there BEFORE the move to Canada? Honeslty at his age, changing to being alone more is not uncommon. Yes he's still young, but kids go through many phases & this is one. If some of these started after the move it could be related to the move.

[prettypixels]

I know folks here are very anti-doctor, but there are some situations where bouncing your ideas and your babies symptoms off of a doctor are worthwhile. This definitely seems like one of them to me. I would not play around if I felt my child were not well. I'd discuss it with a trusted care provider. Please look into your heart and see if your mommy intuition is telling you to seek medical care. Honestly I'm seeing some red flags here that are pretty worrisome.

You are not less of a mother if you need a doctor for your child! That is what they are for.

[EdnaMarie]

Leila- Of course, vitamin deficiency can cause other problems.

The question is, why does the child, who has a healthy diet and healthy parents, have a vitamin deficiency? Vitamin deficiencies do not come up out of the blue. The OP might have noticed that her child is not eating enough foods that contain magnesium or vitamin C. However, she does not seem to be reporting this.

She suspects that there is a magnesium deficiency- but why would that be, if nobody else in her family (or indeed, area) has such a deficiency? Is the child avoiding magnesium-rich foods?

Let me give an example. Where I live, there is a problem with iodine deficiencies. This is because the people are far from the sea and cannot afford to eat a lot of the foods that contain iodine, and their salt does not have iodine. The cause of the lack of iodine is quite clear. However, if a person living near the sea were to have an iodine deficiency, this would be strange. The doctors would look for a specific cause. Does the person avoid iodine-rich foods? Does the family have a poor diet? Is there an absorption issue?

Do you see what I mean? It's not that I doubt that vitamin deficiencies can be the cause of a problem. It's that I believe that vitamin deficiencies have their own causes- especially in a family such as the OP's, where they are obviously already working very hard to eat a balanced diet.

[mamaverdi]

I get what you mean Izobelle. It's what's different that's remarkable and why it's worth looking into in a different way (in other words, a doctor).

FWIW, my child started having trouble with his teeth as well as his mood (becoming very quiet or very crazy) all around the same time. He also had some issues that appeared to be his gut, but were not.

There are muscle issues for instance that have to do with the bowels. And hypoglycemia can make you listless or more and more quiet. And hyperammonemia (high ammonia levels) can rot your teeth.

I urge you to find a good, caring doctor, and go see them.

[chasmyn]

In the US , about everyone is magnesium deficient to some degree. This is why I worry about magnesium.

And I think somehow people are missing the post about my seeking out a proper naturopath for this - I am, so we can stop saying find a doctor. I get it, several of you want me to find a doctor. And I addressed this when I said I am looking for one.

What I am looking for HERE is suggestions from people who have been here, and who might see some pattern that perhaps I am NOT seeing, and might be able to point out some paths that I might take that I am not currently on.

I've read Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, we eat a mainly NT diet, sans gluten/wheat/dairy. Almost everything we eat is whole foods, and nutrition is incredibly important to us.

I am concerned for me son not getting the nutrients he needs because in the recent past I have had gut issues, and I suspect leaky gut. It seems to be healing, but it can be a slow process, so it is likely that my DS has not gotten some of the nutrition he might need from me, in utero and even from BF. If I passed my gut issues onto him, this could well be the reason he is having bowel issues now. If it is a mineral deficiency, I want to supplement that mineral. If it is a food allergy, I want to eliminate that food. (And I do suspect, after PMing JaneS, that it is at least partially a food allergy, which would of course inflame the bowel and cause things to be coming out undigested. At least that would explain this most recent course of events.)

I've read so many books and PubMed articles on nutrition, minerals, etc and their importance and deficiencies that this is why I suspect a mineral deficiency and am supplementing accordingly. But after all of these months, we are still having this same issue and I am stumped.

I have no interest in merely treating the symptoms with drugs or temporary fixes - I am interested in healing my son so that he poops easily every day, and he is getting all of his nutrients from his food rather than having a toxic gut. In the past I've gotten some amazing input from MDC Mamas, which is why I come here and ask the questions.

[Rachel J.]

Originally Posted by chasmyn

Rachael, do you mean the benefiber is wheat based, or the Ionic fizz? I'll look into that - oh1 It just occurred to me that I could mix the Baby Calm with some Emergen-C, although I prefer the idea of it being sweetened with Stevia to fructose, which is what I think Emergen-C is sweetened with.

Maybe I can come up with my own concoction, too, with juice or something...

Also I read on another thread (Leila's) about liquid glycerin suppositories, and I like that idea. because I'm in Canada I cannot get the ones she pointed to, but I DO have some glycerin, and I am checking with home health suppliers about getting the child rectal applicators - I think we could easily make them ourselves that way, and SO much less traumatic than the hard ones.

The Baby Calm/Natural Calm and the Ionic Fizz are sweetened with stevia. The Benefiber is wheat-based but you could always use psyllium or something else. I used to put psyllium into ds's yogurt (when that was about all he'd eat). Just make sure he get's enough fluids with the extra fiber if you decide to increase fiber. There's a product called FruitEze that seems to be really helpful in alleviating constipation. It's basically just prunes, raisins and dates pureed reallly well (very popular in the "constipated kids" groups ) You can find it online. I tried making my own, not very smooth but I use it like a jam on sandwiches, when ds1 will eat it. I also use the Fleet liquid glycerin suppositories with ds2 when needed, soo much easier than the glycerin "sticks."

[Pookietooth]

There is a sweet fizzing drink like Emergen-C that is sweetened with Stevia -- it's by Trace Minerals and it's called Electrolyte Stamina. It does have fructose in it too, but less. mama

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by Rachel J.

There's a product called FruitEze that seems to be really helpful in alleviating constipation. It's basically just prunes, raisins and dates pureed reallly well (very popular in the "constipated kids" groups ) You can find it online. I tried making my own, not very smooth but I use it like a jam on sandwiches, when ds1 will eat it. I also use the Fleet liquid glycerin suppositories with ds2 when needed, soo much easier than the glycerin "sticks."

Can you share your recipe? This sounds good and I might be able to get him to eat it.

Yes, I want to do the liquid glycerin as well. I HATE using the sticks when we do use them. Ugh!

Originally Posted by Pookietooth

There is a sweet fizzing drink like Emergen-C that is sweetened with Stevia -- it's by Trace Minerals and it's called Electrolyte Stamina. It does have fructose in it too, but less. mama

Thanks! I'll look for it.

[loveandkindness]

Actually, I think you need to cut down on the SA and other acids, not up them. Sounds to me like too many acidic foods/drinks. That would account for his teeth -- acid eats away the enamel. Too much acid causes all kinds of digestive problems. As for being "listless" -- to me that is a red flag and I would not wait to find the "perfect" naturopath. Make it your priority. I know you believe in LOA -- use it!

[wendy1221]

I haven't read all of the replies, but have you heard of encopresis? My oldest has had problems with it, and I htink it's something you should definitely look into with his symptoms. Basically, they get so constipated, that their poop forms a "plug." They may start having runnier poop, sometimes soiling their underwear frequently. You might think this is a sign that the constipation is resolved, but actually, they are pooping AROUND the impaction. Not a good thing. Good luck. I hope you can find something that works. There was a thread about alternatives to Miralax (the most common prescription answer to this) in the Special Needs forum a few days ago.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by loveandkindness

Actually, I think you need to cut down on the SA and other acids, not up them. Sounds to me like too many acidic foods/drinks. That would account for his teeth -- acid eats away the enamel. Too much acid causes all kinds of digestive problems. As for being "listless" -- to me that is a red flag and I would not wait to find the "perfect" naturopath. Make it your priority. I know you believe in LOA -- use it!

I need some clarification on this, if you don't mind.

What sounds like too many acidic foods? That I'm trying to get SA into him? I don't think I mentioned what he generally eats other then that broth, and that isn't acidic. He only drinks water, breastmilk and herbal tea. And this started when he started solids - the decay and the constipation. Then we were feeding him pretty mild stuff like sweet potato and avacado.

When you say make it my priority and don't look for a naturopath, what do you mean? Does it somehow sound like I am not taking action here? I'm thinking that seeking out the help of a naturopath Is making it my priority, so this statement is unclear to me.

Originally Posted by wendy1221

I haven't read all of the replies, but have you heard of encopresis? My oldest has had problems with it, and I htink it's something you should definitely look into with his symptoms. Basically, they get so constipated, that their poop forms a "plug." They may start having runnier poop, sometimes soiling their underwear frequently. You might think this is a sign that the constipation is resolved, but actually, they are pooping AROUND the impaction. Not a good thing. Good luck. I hope you can find something that works. There was a thread about alternatives to Miralax (the most common prescription answer to this) in the Special Needs forum a few days ago.

I've researched encopresis, yes - way back when this started. The thing is, it never leaks out. He just holds it until he cannot possibly anymore, then will have a BIG poop, generally rather hard on the end that comes out first. And we definitely know when it's coming - he has a particular face and way about him - and he will respond affirmatively when we ask if he needs to poop. It sort of makes me wonder if the nerves in his bowel just aren't letting him know he needs to poop until he is so full he is nearly bursting? Maybe not literally, but...

Sorry it takes me days each time to respond to the thread I started myself - I generally don;t get very much two-handed typing time, and I definitely need two hands to address this properly. I SO appreciate everyone's contributions and thoughts and suggestions here. Brainstorming is good! And two heads are better than one

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by chasmyn

It sort of makes me wonder if the nerves in his bowel just aren't letting him know he needs to poop until he is so full he is nearly bursting? Maybe not literally, but...

That was my understanding of what encopresis is/does. That's why I decided to get my DD pooping regularly, even if by artifical means, for a while until the colon and nerves can get back in shape and do their jobs.

I have been doing the liquid glycerin every other day, and getting results. But she still is holding it in as much as she can. She did go without the glycerin on Saturday night after going with it on Friday, and we were so excited!! We couldn't believe it!

But then last night (Monday) I gave her the glycerin again, and she had a little bit of formed poop, but held the rest back with all her might. Some liquid was released by way of the glycerin, but I think she withheld the majority of the solid stool. So, I feel like we're back at square one.

[loveandkindness]

[QUOTE=chasmyn;8658024]What sounds like too many acidic foods? That I'm trying to get SA into him?

When you say make it my priority and don't look for a naturopath, what do you mean? Does it somehow sound like I am not taking action here? I'm thinking that seeking out the help of a naturopath Is making it my priority, so this statement is unclear to me. ""


As far as acidic foods -- you had mentioned Vitamin C and fermented foods. Also, many supplements are acidic.

When I said "make it your priority" I didn't mean don't look for a naturopath. I meant show up on one's doorstep and beg for help. I am reacting to the fact that you first posted about this July 9th. If my child was listless, I would make it a priority to get professional help as quickly as possible. However, you know your child best, so please understand that I am not judging you -- just sharing my opinion and gut feeling on this matter.

[EdnaMarie]

How is your son? Is he feeling more active? Listlessness subsiding? Poops getting better? Have you tried any of those supplements, and are they working? Did you find a naturopath?

[motocita]

chasmyn, have you tried NAET? i took my 2 year old dd with multiple food allergies, and discovered that she had allergies to foods i would have never suspected - like salt, and basic vitamins like B-complex. all these major allergies prevented her from absorbing nutrients from all the incredibly nutritious foods i was giving her everyday.

after we desensitized her to these basic allergens, she was able to tolerate some of the other foods better. it also decreased her eczema, although we are still working on that.

going to an NAET initial appointment should set you back about $100-150 but you will find out on the spot all the things she is allergic to. even if you never come back for desensitization at least you will know definitively what foods to avoid.

good luck to you. i'm so sorry for what your little guy is going through.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

That was my understanding of what encopresis is/does. That's why I decided to get my DD pooping regularly, even if by artifical means, for a while until the colon and nerves can get back in shape and do their jobs.

I have been doing the liquid glycerin every other day, and getting results. But she still is holding it in as much as she can. She did go without the glycerin on Saturday night after going with it on Friday, and we were so excited!! We couldn't believe it!

But then last night (Monday) I gave her the glycerin again, and she had a little bit of formed poop, but held the rest back with all her might. Some liquid was released by way of the glycerin, but I think she withheld the majority of the solid stool. So, I feel like we're back at square one.

I wonder if the glycerine burns? I read somewhere that it can, I wonder if that might be part of it? It's so difficult when they're young and pre-verbal, isn't it? Because they cannot just tell you...It can be so frustrating guessing all of the time.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by loveandkindness

As far as acidic foods -- you had mentioned Vitamin C and fermented foods. Also, many supplements are acidic.

Ah, okay then. Yes, this is where I've been unclear (I tend to do that, forgetting that I really have to tell everything because no, people don't just know...). except for beets on occasion, he really doesn't eat fermented foods. *I* eat them and he gets my breastmilk. Same with extra SA, magnesium, CLO, high vitamin butter oil, all of the supplements. I've TRIED to get him to take the stuff himself, but mostly it doesn't happen, so what he is getting now of these things in particular is through my breastmilk. He does eat the bone broths, the carrots, LOTS of fruit, grass fed meats like chicken and buffalo, some rice crackers occasionally, sushi sometimes...things like these. I don't think his diet is too acidic, which is why I asked you to clarify, so that I could as well. I hope this is more clear. And maybe there is something I'm not seeing about what I'm feeding him, so I welcome input here, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm resisting it.

When I said "make it your priority" I didn't mean don't look for a naturopath. I meant show up on one's doorstep and beg for help.

Funny you should say that, as that is sort of what I've done. We live in a co-housing community and my neighbour just happens to be a naturopath. I asked her over to talk a bit about it and am going to see her in her clinic.

I am reacting to the fact that you first posted about this July 9th. If my child was listless, I would make it a priority to get professional help as quickly as possible. However, you know your child best, so please understand that I am not judging you -- just sharing my opinion and gut feeling on this matter.

Yes, and I forgot to post that he had pooped :And on his own - we were thisclose to giving him a suppository and he did it. IT wasn't fun, it was harder and painful for him as it had been in the past - but holy moly were we ever glad he did. We do start to get a bit freaked around about day 5 when it goes that long.

And once he did go, he improved and has been himself again. Thank goodness. And thank you so much for being that concerned, too

I do have an ongoing concern that he is not eliminating everything he is taking in, and that there can be toxic buildup, and this is definitely something I am looking at with the naturopath and via research, including this thread. My goal is to balance his gut flora so that he DOES have normal bowel function, and to get all of that extra stuff out that I've got a feeling is still in there.

And yes, LOA...Life moves easily and freely, right?