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WWYD Harry Potter or vacation w/ dad?? - Page 6

post #101 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingByFaith View Post
The OP even said herself that her ds doesn't care one way or the other and he'd be fine if he had to miss the book release party and would still have fun on the vacation.
This is what the OP said: "Now my son doesnt want to go on this trip that he didnt particularly want to go to in the first place."

Quote:
What are you teaching a child by telling him it's okay to do whatever he wants as long as "it's his choice" even when it means putting others in an awkward postion, disrespecting other peoples feelings and breaking commitments that have been made?
The prior commitment was to the thing that the child wants to do. What are you teaching the child if you force him to do something because someone else made a mistake when he has a prior commitment that was very important to him?


Quote:
Oh..and for the record, if I "respected" all of my child's choices we'd spend everyday eating oreos and watching Star Wars : .
If you can't see the difference in the situations, I just don't know what to say to you.

Personally, I think you're doing a lot of projecting and making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
post #102 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
This is what the OP said: "Now my son doesnt want to go on this trip that he didnt particularly want to go to in the first place."
Exactly. It sounds like the op's son is laid-back, and cares enough about the feelings of others to not sulk, and to make the best of whatever situation he's in -- but does that mean it's okay for him to feel he always has to cave to Grandma, just because she's less mature than he is when it comes to handling disappointment and adapting to others?

Quote:
The prior commitment was to the thing that the child wants to do. What are you teaching the child if you force him to do something because someone else made a mistake when he has a prior commitment that was very important to him?
Yes. The "awkwardness" occurred because the op got mixed up about the dates. She's sorry about that, and I think she'll do what she can to make amends. Since the son didn't make the commitment, I don't see how he can or should be accused of breaking it.

Quote:
Personally, I think you're doing a lot of projecting and making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
Yes, the assumption that the op would be sending her son on this trip if it *only* meant he'd be missing something that mattered to him, and not to both of them, is just plain insulting to the op.
post #103 of 122
And for the people who say (or imply) that we HP lovers are just so blinded by our "fanatic obsession" that we can't think clearly about the issue --

I honestly think there's just as much of the reverse going on in this thread. Some who are puzzled by the popularity of HP, and wondering why getting and reading the book right away is so important to the op and her son -- are rephrasing the situation as "putting books and events before people."

And yet, the more the op posts about her son's grandma, the more it sounds like this woman is the one who's repeatedly gone ahead and done what she wanted, without regard for the feelings of others. I'm shocked that she took the op's son to the dentist and had work done without even consulting the op: I didn't even know this was legal without the parent's permission.

I'm shocked that it even occured to the grandma to try to step out-of-bounds to this extent. Her behavior shows a total lack of respect for the op and the op's son.

So when I hear people saying the op's son is being encouraged to do what he wants without considering the feelings of others -- I just have to laugh (sarcastically), because it seems so clear that this boy is being way more considerate of Grandma and her feelings, than she is of him and his feelings.
post #104 of 122
I see both sides. On the one hand, I think it is reasonable to expect that family comes before a book or movie or whatever. If there is a rock concert, or a book launching or a birthday party and it conflicts with an important family event like a reunion or a family vacation with extended family, well then, family takes priority. Certainly, here in Italy, that is the culture. Family is just really really important and that value is imbued in children at a young age. Book launches take the back seat, even if the date of the family event was set AFTER the date of the book launch was set.

That being said, I don't see the point of making a kid go to something when he has a truly once in a lifetime event that he probably will always remember and think fondly about. I don't think this is just about "a book". This is a series that has been going on for seven years or something, so the bulk of his childhood. I think this is about a significant childhood event and childhood memories, just like Christmas day or Halloween or running in the sprinkler in summer. And if he can't go, he is always going to remember that he wanted to go and he missed it cause he had to go on a dumb family vacation. The vacation memory is always going to be tainted and possibly create resentment. If I were the grandmother, I would think about other opportunities and tell him to have a good time at the book launch.
post #105 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingByFaith View Post
Oh please.

This has nothing to do with "respecting choices" and everything to do with a fanatic obsession over a book : . The OP even said herself that her ds doesn't care one way or the other and he'd be fine if he had to miss the book release party and would still have fun on the vacation. I have a strong feeling that if this was something that was important only to her ds (say the release of a new video game or the season premiere of a new cartoon that she cared nothing about) he'd be going on this trip. What I see happening here is a mom who is just as (if not more) invested in HP manipulating this situation because SHE really wants him to go to the release party.

What are you teaching a child by telling him it's okay to do whatever he wants as long as "it's his choice" even when it means putting others in an awkward postion, disrespecting other peoples feelings and breaking commitments that have been made?

Oh..and for the record, if I "respected" all of my child's choices we'd spend everyday eating oreos and watching Star Wars : .
i will just have to agree to disagree with you, and to be honest i think that you are actually being quite rude and condescending in your last paragraph. this is not about a cartoon or video game this is about an event in a childs life that holds meaning for that child and his mother. this is about arrangements being made on another persons behalf when they had prior commitments.

you obviously do not understand by comparing it to watching star wars all day. there is a time for limits and a time for freedom. the op's ds did not choose to be put in this position and the op has handled it with hers sons best interests foremost in her mind, this has been obvious the entire way through this thread, and i wholeheartedly admire her for it. i feel her dh's husband treat her ds as somewhat of a pawn and i feel the op has stood firm and not allowed this to happen - op - you are fabulous!
post #106 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
And for the people who say (or imply) that we HP lovers are just so blinded by our "fanatic obsession" that we can't think clearly about the issue --

I honestly think there's just as much of the reverse going on in this thread. Some who are puzzled by the popularity of HP, and wondering why getting and reading the book right away is so important to the op and her son -- are rephrasing the situation as "putting books and events before people."

And yet, the more the op posts about her son's grandma, the more it sounds like this woman is the one who's repeatedly gone ahead and done what she wanted, without regard for the feelings of others. I'm shocked that she took the op's son to the dentist and had work done without even consulting the op: I didn't even know this was legal without the parent's permission.

I'm shocked that it even occured to the grandma to try to step out-of-bounds to this extent. Her behavior shows a total lack of respect for the op and the op's son.

So when I hear people saying the op's son is being encouraged to do what he wants without considering the feelings of others -- I just have to laugh (sarcastically), because it seems so clear that this boy is being way more considerate of Grandma and her feelings, than she is of him and his feelings.
post #107 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
So when I hear people saying the op's son is being encouraged to do what he wants without considering the feelings of others -- I just have to laugh (sarcastically), because it seems so clear that this boy is being way more considerate of Grandma and her feelings, than she is of him and his feelings.
I completely agree.

I also think that something very important that's being overlooked - or maybe just dismissed - is that this is a family function. The OP and her son is a family, they have planned to share something that is exciting and important to them, and their family event is just as important. Maybe now I'm projecting , but it seriously bugs me when someone assumes that a custodial parent should just set aside a special event because the non-custodial parent comes up with a conflict.
post #108 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
I also think that something very important that's being overlooked - or maybe just dismissed - is that this is a family function. The OP and her son is a family, they have planned to share something that is exciting and important to them, and their family event is just as important.
Yes.
post #109 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
I see both sides. On the one hand, I think it is reasonable to expect that family comes before a book or movie or whatever. If there is a rock concert, or a book launching or a birthday party and it conflicts with an important family event like a reunion or a family vacation with extended family, well then, family takes priority. Certainly, here in Italy, that is the culture. Family is just really really important and that value is imbued in children at a young age. Book launches take the back seat, even if the date of the family event was set AFTER the date of the book launch was set.
I imagine that in Italy, it's the whole family getting together -- meaning if this situation occurred in Italy, Mom would have been invited on the vacation, too. Am I right?

And if Mom was there with ds, they could slip off and go to a release party somewhere near the campsite, and hang out reading together for quite a bit of the rest of the vacation -- still faithfully attending family dinners so Grandma didn't feel neglected.
post #110 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
This has nothing to do with "respecting choices" and everything to do with a fanatic obsession over a book : . The OP even said herself that her ds doesn't care one way or the other and he'd be fine if he had to miss the book release party and would still have fun on the vacation.
I'm not sure where you got that ds doesnt care one way or another...he's been very clear since we realized the date conflict, that he wants to stay home and read HP. He has not wavered on that one bit. What i said was, that my son said he guesses he would go on the trip if i "made" him go. And i said, knowing how easy going my son is, that if i DID make him go on the trip, that he would enjoy it, and i dont think he would forever be disappointed about HP, or that he would hold it against anyone. However, just because my son is not super sensitive or because he is easy going/forgiving, doesnt therefore mean that his feelings should not be respected. Just because he isnt crying and hanging up on anyone, he shouldnt get what he wants?

I also think you really arent getting it about the book. For six books, many of whom are loooong books (like 600+ pages) we've followed the story of Harry Potter and his life at Hogwarts. At the end of Half Blood Prince, Hogwarts had closed and Harry went off to fight V. This last book finishes the story. Its the culmination of an experience that started when my son was about six or seven years old. For all six books, we'd lie in bed while i read out loud to him. Tomorrow night, kids all over the world will be standing in line to get their copy of the book, then rushing home to read it. By Saturday morning (or earlier) it will be all over the internet, how it ends. While i'm sure we would enjoy the book regardless, it would be really nice to read the book without knowing who dies, or if good triumphs over evil. I'm not sure why you don't get that!? We've followed these characters for *years* and this is it. The End.

Quote:
I have a strong feeling that if this was something that was important only to her ds (say the release of a new video game or the season premiere of a new cartoon that she cared nothing about) he'd be going on this trip.
Wow, i am not sure what i have written that would at ALL give you that impression...?!

We're radical unschoolers, and as such supporting my son's passions are pretty high on my list of priorities. So is respectful parenting, and just plain kindness within our home. I *absolutely* would support my son if this had to do with something videogame or cartoon related. However, the difference is in the timing. For example, if a certain videogame that he was waiting a long time for, was going to be released this weekend, i'd encourage him to go on the trip since the game would be there when he got back. But if he had been waiting forever for, say, the Wii to be released, he'd made prior plans to stand in line all night with friends and was really excited about that, and it would be likely he'd have to wait months for the opportunity to be able to buy a Wii, and he *really* wanted to do that instead of the trip, i'd respect that. As i said before, if this wasnt the *last* book, it wouldnt be an issue.

Quote:
What I see happening here is a mom who is just as (if not more) invested in HP manipulating this situation because SHE really wants him to go to the release party
Again....not sure where you are getting this. I'm going to the release party (with sister and niece) regardless, and would stay up all night reading regardless...indeed, when one of the books came out years ago..maybe Goblet of Fire, i can't really remember...i couldnt wait to read the book so after my son fell asleep i...ahem...read ahead and finished it. No big deal. I would have been happy to read him HP when he got back. He was not ok with that. I've asked him several times if he wouldnt rather go on the trip, his answer was that he didnt particularly want to go in the first place. He hasnt seemed conflicted at all, certainly not as conflicted and "guilty" as i feel.

Quote:
What are you teaching a child by telling him it's okay to do whatever he wants as long as "it's his choice" even when it means putting others in an awkward postion, disrespecting other peoples feelings and breaking commitments that have been made?
Well, i dont think this has anything to do with teaching my son anything. But what it has done is help me to learn that its important for me to not agree to any trips before checking a calander and being absolutely sure we are free on that date. And then discussing it with my son to make sure he wants to go, and only *then* to commit to it. My son hasnt disrespected anyone's feelings...he respects the fact that gma is upset, but he doesnt feel *responsible* for those feelings. Which is good, because he's not responsible. And honestly, i think her reaction is a little over the top, i can see her being "disappointed" or sad, but crying for days even though there are other grandchildren and her own two children going to me seems a little much. Out of seven people originally planned for this trip, six are still going. And please keep in mind this trip was going to happen whether ds went or not.

I broke the committment, by accident...not my son. Just wanted to be clear on that. If i had asked him, before any committment had been made, what his choice was, he would have chose staying home.

Quote:
Oh..and for the record, if I "respected" all of my child's choices we'd spend everyday eating oreos and watching Star Wars : .
[/QUOTE]

http://www.sandradodd.com/ifilet

Maybe thats how "respect" works in your house....but not in ours. My son can eat Oreos all day if he wants, but i know that even if he did, it wouldnt last long. Its the rare child that would truly choose to limit themselves that way when they know they *really* have a choice. Its amazing how when a person knows they truly can have anything they want (within time and budget contraints of course), they become very selective in determining exactly what it is they DO want. Its funny to me that you mention food and media choices, because those are two things (amongst many others) that i don't "control" or put limits on at all (again, with the exception of certain time or money contraints), and never have (and i was raised similarly so i dont have any "baggage" in that area)....and i have a son who doesnt obsess over those issues.

Its funny, because on a different board i'm on, a parent said that its great that Radical Unschooling has worked so well for us, because my son is obviously very self-controlled and will limit himself, but her son would spend 12 hours a day on videogames, eat junk food at midnight, etc if she let him. I had to laugh and responded that my son does all that and more, but how i, as a radical unschooler, respond to those activities is probably much different than how she does, and that response makes all the difference in the world.

But that might be a subject for a different thread!


Katherine
post #111 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillmamma View Post
I just think you have an amazing kid. He seems so patient and kind with his grandma, even when she is overbearing. Obviously your "radical" upbringing is doing a lot of good for him. I hope you are able to work something out. Good luck!
Thanks! He really is amazing, such an empathetic kid, really loving. I'm not sure where he gets that, because i wasnt the greatest parent when he was a toddler/preschooler, but i really like him alot. He is so forgiving. Although i do have to be careful to remind him to be respectful towards his gma, even if he doesnt agree with her....sometimes i think the negative feelings that his father and i both occasionally have toward gma rubs off on him, so i try to make sure to balance that by telling him that i do truly believe she means well, and that when she does these things, SHE thinks she is just showing her love. She's not malicious, just clueless.

Radical unschooling is the best thing we ever did for our relationship though. I highly recommend it!

Katherine
post #112 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
And yet the more the op posts about her son's grandma, the more it sounds like this woman is the one who's repeatedly gone ahead and done what she wanted, without regard for the feelings of others. I'm shocked that she took the op's son to the dentist and had work done without even consulting the op: I didn't even know this was legal without the parent's permission.
Believe me i have a list a mile long of similar things she's done. I've had to call her doctor before and say she is NOT allowed to bring my son in for treatment w/o me giving specific consent. She had my permission to take him to the dentist to get his teeth cleaned, but didnt even tell me about anything else til after the fact. When i called the dentist to complain (this is in another state from me, four hours away), they said they had his father's consent. I told him he didnt have the legal authority to give that consent, and that they should not treat him in the future unless they had written consent from me (only "legal" parent.) When my son was in school, gma spoke (twice!)with his teacher about having him moved up to first grade, totally without consulting me first! She was only supposed to be picking him up from school. When ds' dad and his mother are together, they fight constantly, about *everything*...my family just isnt like that at all. When we went down there last month, i was shocked at how much fighting there was just driving down the street in the car, i found it pretty stressful. She uses the word "idiot" as a term of endearment for her kids. I guess all the fighting is benign in that its about stupid stuff like the best way to get to the destination, and then they insult each other....but i find it all really weird. Although she's gotten ALOT better, for the longest time she was really insulting and disrespectful to my son about anything he was interested in...if he was watching cartoons, she'd talk about how stupid they are. Or if he likes videogames, again how stupid. She improved alot when i threatened to cut off unsupervised visits.

The thing is, she totally thinks she is being nice and helpful. But there are always strings attached. Her sons, both adults, do not know how to say "no" to her, so ds' dad is supportive of ds learning this early on. He knows how much drama its caused in his life, but its easier for him to give in then to start being firm w/ her now. She really is the type of person who would practically give you the clothes of her back if you needed them, she cosigned on my car, she will loan money to you at a moment's notice. I just think she's so used to browbeating her family into getting her way, that it totally freaks her out when someone says "No"...i couldnt be too firm when i lived there, but after moving away, and our only contact being email, it was pretty easy to stick to my guns about things (like uh...deciding to not put my child in school even though she wanted me to)...i think it makes her feel powerless. Oh well. I think one day hopefully she will learn you don't have to buy people, that if you are pleasant to be around people will want to spend time w/ you.'

I'm just glad ds' dad isnt holding this against me...we've gotten to a really good place where we are getting along very well, and i want to keep it that way. Usually in the past when we've had problems, its because of the interference of his mother.

Katherine
post #113 of 122
I hope you enjoy the party! And I agree that it's not "just about a book". Have a great weekend!
post #114 of 122
I'm glad your ds realizes the way Grandma's acting/feeling is not his problem. And I'm glad your ds's dad wants to break the cycle, and help his son be assertive when he needs to with Grandma.

It sounds like some very positive things are coming out of this. Have a fun weekend, all!
post #115 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post

I also think that something very important that's being overlooked - or maybe just dismissed - is that this is a family function. The OP and her son is a family, they have planned to share something that is exciting and important to them, and their family event is just as important. Maybe now I'm projecting , but it seriously bugs me when someone assumes that a custodial parent should just set aside a special event because the non-custodial parent comes up with a conflict.
AMEN!!
post #116 of 122
i guess the op and her ds are busy reading right now - i wonder how they got on i hope they had a fabulous time - happy reading katherine
post #117 of 122
Hey OP, I'm just wondering, how did everything work out? Did you have a good time at the book launch? Has grandma forgiven all?
post #118 of 122
Thread Starter 
****
post #119 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
Hey OP, I'm just wondering, how did everything work out? Did you have a good time at the book launch? Has grandma forgiven all?
I was too afraid to bump an old topic back to the top!

Lets see....we had a good time getting the book. It was my sister, my other sister's daughter who is 12, my son, and me. Son and niece were wearing their trusty cloaks, my son had a staff that i'd gotten him at a pagan-y store recently. They looked pretty cool. First, we stopped at Borders Express/Waldenbooks to check out their party. They were fairly packed. Not too much going on though. We saw one woman who looked very McGonagallish, standing all alone, very stern, with an anti-Snape sticker (they were giving out pro and anti snape stickers)......she had a great costume, i mean i was even afraid to say hi. My sister marched over and struck up a conversation, turns out she was only wearing the sticker because her granddaughter wanted the other---purple---one. Then we had a convo about how great Alan Rickman is. :

Then, it was on to Borders at the mall...oh geez, a huge line from the front door all the way down the building. We asked one girl what the line was for..."to get in i think"...but my sister found out it was the line to get wristbands that would determine your place in line to get the book. Well, we had a secret plan of where to get the book without standing in line with a hundred other people, so we just went in to enjoy the party. They had facepainting, a costume contest (saw a really good Luna, Neville, and some adult wizard types who must go to conventions because they had awesome detailed costumes)...there were so many people it was claustrophobic. Oh, saw a bunch of girls dressed up in quidditch costumes, that was neat.

Then the kids wanted to move on, so we hit McDonalds, and then on to Meijer which was supposedly having a party too. (for those dont know, meijer is kind of like WalMart but with groceries, and a union)...the kids looked so cool traipsing into meijer in cloaks (there were people there just getting groceries), and there was a line all the way from the front doors to the back where the books are. I said out loud "Is this the line already!?" and a woman said "Yep this is the line" (kind of like, and get in the back lady!)...we checked out what was going on at the front of the line, not much, they had cake. They wanted the kids to sign up for the costume contest (they were giving away free books and other things)but i guess they arent joiners because they really didnt want to. I think they were more into checking everything out and then moving on to the next party.

About this time we decided to go to the secret location so we could get in line for the book (it was probably 11:30)...it was the same place we got HBP, which was....Kroger!!! The dinky little Kroger grocery store down the street from my mom's was staying open til 12:30 just to sell the book. Last time, it was basically us four, and some guy stopping by on his way home from work to get the book for his daughter. This time, it was two pairs of teenage girls and their moms, so four people ahead of us in line. Then a group of about five teen boys showed up behind us, and then a dad and his daughter. That was it!! The kids went off to look at groceries while we talked about the pros and cons of the GoF movie, and whether Snape is good or not. The kids came back, got their pics taken by a witch who worked there and were given free root beer floats, and everyone got their books.

We were back in the car on the way home by 12:09! I felt kinda sorry for all those people standing in line in Meijer. We tried, really tried to finish the book quickly, but in the end we didnt read the last words until 7:30 Tuesday morning. Do you know how hard it is to read out loud while you're blubbering like a baby??

So, overall my son said he was really glad that he stayed home, although in retrospect i think he could have probably gone on vacation...given that we didnt even finish the book right away, and managed to avoid any spoilers along the way. But he's not sorry he missed it.

We havent heard from his dad at all though. He is supposed to be coming up here next weekend so i guess we will see him then.


Katherine
post #120 of 122
i am glad you had such a great time
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