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WWYD Harry Potter or vacation w/ dad?? - Page 4

post #61 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
lets take harry potter out of the equation. it doesn't matter if it is a jump-rope-a-thon or an upside down under water basket weaving contest. it is important to him, more important than a week in the boonies, it is something he has been planning for a year. thats all that matters. it really doesn't what he is doing or if it is important to anyone else.
Assuming of course, that the exact same event was also occurring in TN as well, and that he could still participate in it, with his dad.
post #62 of 122
So mom being part of the event just doesn't matter? Why is that?
post #63 of 122
his dad is not excited about it. he was not plannin gon doing this with his dad. who wants to take a kid on vacation just so they can lock themselves in their room and read?

this sounds like a lot more fun with mom. this is their thing. this is their fun. it is about more than the event.

There were things I was ticked off about missing in the name of visitation with a dad who didn't care to live close to us. I could have and did do some of them with him but it sucked. it wasn't the same. what i wanted to be doing involved people I loved and cared about. it was about my community and my people.
post #64 of 122
It's pretty clear that most people are making their decision based on what they personally feel is most important. Obviously different people value different things, so it seems to be a bad idea to make the decision based on what other people deem important. Everyone including children should have the right to some autonomy. The boy is the one who has to live with the consequences, so he should be the one to make the decision. It's unfortunate that mom made a mistake about the dates, but the boy should not be punished for her mistake. It's unfortunate that dad lives far away and only sees his son once a month, but that too is not the boys fault. Vacations are meant to be enjoyable and relaxing, but I can't imagine having a good time on a vacation when it means missing out on something that I had been looking forward to for close to a year. Being forced to attend the vacation is more likely to cause resentment rather than encourage family bonding. If that's the case it would actually be counter-productive. It just seems so disrespectful to the son to disregard his wants/desires just because not everyone feels it is as important as he does. I can't imagine forcing my husband to miss something really important to him just because I made plans without consulting him. Most people would not ask an adult to make this sort of sacrifice, but many people want the boy to make this sacrifice because he is the kid and the adults know what's best. It seems to be quite a double standard.
post #65 of 122
I think that the vast majority of us on here have said that the child's decision should be respected. There has just been a secondary debate as to whether we believe he's made the right decision. But advising a child and forcing him to do something are very different things.
post #66 of 122
Quote:
But WHY does he only get to see his dad once per month? Isn't it because Dad chooses to live four hours away?
Or maybe Mom choose where she lives. I didn't see in the OP that the father had moved AWAY from son, but I may have missed it. Either way people are making a lot of assumptions about Dad.
post #67 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
So mom being part of the event just doesn't matter? Why is that?
Of course it matters. I never said it didn't. All I said was that he could still participate in the event, albeit in a different way. Doesn't mean it wouldn't still be a compromise for him. That just seems like the easiest compromise... setting up another vacation might also work- even though the current one can't be rescheduled maybe he could visit with dad and paternal grandparents as soon as they get back and stay with them for a while?

I just don't think it needs to be an all or nothing thing.
post #68 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosedotcom View Post
Or maybe Mom choose where she lives. I didn't see in the OP that the father had moved AWAY from son, but I may have missed it. Either way people are making a lot of assumptions about Dad.
Even if it were the mom who moved away -- a father does have a say in these matters, if he chooses to take the legal steps to assert his rights. At the time of the separation or divorce, Dad could have pushed to get legal visitation rights, and I think he'd also have some say if Mom was wanting to move four hours away, and Dad didn't want her to.

Of course, getting the law involved would also mean he'd have to pay court ordered child-support, and maybe he wouldn't want to take things that far.

So either way, I don't think I'm "off" in assuming Dad has other priorities besides being a primary person in his son's life.
post #69 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
his dad is not excited about it. he was not plannin gon doing this with his dad. who wants to take a kid on vacation just so they can lock themselves in their room and read?
Yeah! I'll probably get accused of "assuming" more stuff -- but I just have an icky feeling Grandma would not, AT ALL, respect the boy's desire to lock himself up long enough to read the entire book from cover to cover.

She'd be saying cr@p like, "You can read that book any old time, but we'll only be in these beautiful mountains for a few more days, nag-nag-nag." I think she'd definitely try to make him feel guilty if he went but wasn't making what she'd consider "good use" of the wonderful time she'd planned for him.

Okay, now I'm assuming bigtime, I'll admit it. It's just, years of experience with my own childhood tells me it's so.

Quote:
this sounds like a lot more fun with mom. this is their thing. this is their fun. it is about more than the event.
Yes, being able to share this last book with his mom, who actually loves Harry Potter and will share the joy with him, seems way different from sharing the experience with his dad who, according to the OP, is the sort of person who'd actually prefer sharing a spoiler with his son so he'll know what happened without getting to read it for himself. That'd be a real drag.
post #70 of 122
dad and grandma want to take son for a vacation.

mom says okay.

oops, mom realizes there's a conflict. it's an event with mom that son has been looking forward to for a long time.

what to do???

i think if son was _really_ invested in the "event" with mom i would let him do that, BUT i would call and apologize profusely and take all the blame myself. i would not let it be that son _chose_ the "event" instead of the vacation with family. it would be MY FAULT that I MESSED UP and DIDN'T REALIZE WE ALREADY HAD PLANS. and THEN, i would ASK WHAT I COULD DO TO MAKE UP FOR IT. could i bring son down to visit for a special weekend as soon as they got back from vacation? could i help plan another trip? would they like to come up and visit? if the choice is to stay home and do the event then amends must be made because it might really hurt the grandma and dad and extended family's feelings and the message you want to give them is that they do matter and you're sorry you messed up the dates. the message you want to give your son is you're sorry you messed up the dates and family does matter and you need to make amends when you're sorry.

that's my advice!
post #71 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
...BUT i would call and apologize profusely and take all the blame myself. i would not let it be that son _chose_ the "event" instead of the vacation with family.
Exactly! What happened is the son had a prior engagement, and Mom messed up and scheduled something at the same time, which is human and understandable.

The logical response is for Mom to apologize and try to make amends -- NOT for the son to be "encouraged" to give up something important to him as if it's ON HIM to "prove" his love for his dad.
post #72 of 122
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread so I'm just going on what the OP wrote.

Have you tried turning the situation around? What if your ds lived with his Dad and you planned a vacation and then Dad says "Ooops, I forgot, we planned on going to a release party for a book (that he can read two days later when he gets back) so now he doesn't want to come on vacation with you.".

Part of me can't help but wonder if this is more about the release party, the book, reading it right away before the "magic" is gone etc.. being just as if not more important to the OP than her son. Kids pick up on things. The OP's ds most likely knows how important this is to mom and doesn't want to dissapoint her, which may be influencing his decision.

To be honest I don't "get" the whole HP thing. I've read a couple, they were okay...I guess everybody has their own taste in literature. Whatever.

I guess to me one of the most important things in life are family. Books, movies, TV shows etc.. are all nice too, but IMO they should NEVER trump time with family. Your ds is 11..he's entering a time in his life when he needs a father. To you this may be just an opportunity that can be replaced, but who knows if some sort of really fantastic bonding moment will happen on this trip that could impact your son's life forever.

We never know how long our loved ones are going to be here. Somebody can be taken away in an instant. When it comes down to it you know for sure that the new HP book will be here when he gets back. The words inside will be the same as if he had read them 2 days earlier. Skipping this trip however, may result in missing out on something that can never be replaced or reproduced.

Believe me, I love to read and there are books that I love dearly and have become a part of my soul, of who I am. I just can't understand however, trading experiencing a real, live place with real, live people who are an integral part of your life for fictional places and fictional characters who will be there when you get back.

My advice would be...don't take your son and his father's relationship for granted..don't assume to know what events will transpire on the trip..don't send the message to your ds's Dad that a book is more important than their time together. To you, a HP fan, it may not be about whether or not the book is more imprortant than his Dad..but to his Dad (and grandmother), who have not jumped on the HP bandwagon that's exactly how it will come across...that his son is choosing to stay home and read a book that will be there when he gets back as opposed to spending time with him.

Just my .02.
post #73 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingByFaith View Post
I guess to me one of the most important things in life are family. Books, movies, TV shows etc.. are all nice too, but IMO they should NEVER trump time with family. Your ds is 11..he's entering a time in his life when he needs a father. To you this may be just an opportunity that can be replaced, but who knows if some sort of really fantastic bonding moment will happen on this trip that could impact your son's life forever.

first i think you really underestimate how important these things are for kids and how cool it is when your parents indulge this sort of thing.

secondly what he wants to do he wants to do with family. this is a huge bonding time with mom. If dad insists on ruining it it could create a divide that will never heal (seriously am i the only one who hated her dad as a pre-teen/teenager because visitation a million miles from home was more important than my plans and my life?).making him mis it is in no way going to help his relationship with his dad or bonding them closer. he won't be focused on family and fun and the trip. he will only be able to focus on what he is missing out on. however if dad says "I know this is really important to you, have fun with your mom, I will see you next weekend and I will listen as you rattle on endlessly about the book. . . " he will never ever forget how loving and caring his dad was about this.
post #74 of 122
But if it's really THAT important to her ds why did she give the okay to go ahead and plan a vacation (that I'm sure is costing the grandmother a decent amount of money) for that weekend? If something was that monumentally important to my ds I'd be sure to at least..oh I don't know..put it on the calendar to make sure that I didn't schedule anything else for that day.

Why does Dad have to be put in the positon to either forgo a vacation (that was approved by Mom and has been planned by Grandma) or become the "Big Bad Dad Who Won't Let Me Go To The Release Party Of the HP Book" because of a mistake that the OP made?

It just seems like the overtone of this thread is that Dad and Grandma should just suck it up because the OP screwed up and gave them the go ahead to plan a vacation and then afterwards remembered they had something they wanted to do more.

Perhaps a more important lesson in responsibility, following through with obligations, the importance of family and considering the effects of your actions on others could be learned by the OP saying to her ds:

"Listen, I know this was important to you, but I wasn't thinking about the HP release party when I gave the go ahead for this vacation with your Dad. Your Grandmother has thoughtfully planned a really nice vacation for you and both she and your Dad are looking forward to spending time with you. It's not fair of us to expect them to change plans because I made a mistake. We'll read the book as soon as you get back..it is after all, only a book that you can read anytime, but this time spent with your Dad and Grandmother can never be replaced."
post #75 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkingByFaith View Post
But if it's really THAT important to her ds why did she give the okay to go ahead and plan a vacation (that I'm sure is costing the grandmother a decent amount of money) for that weekend? If something was that monumentally important to my ds I'd be sure to at least..oh I don't know..put it on the calendar to make sure that I didn't schedule anything else for that day.
Because some people just aren't that organized. Personally, I try to keep way too much in my head and occasionally things slip. I try not to make my kid suffer for it.

Quote:
"Listen, I know this was important to you, but I wasn't thinking about the HP release party when I gave the go ahead for this vacation with your Dad. Your Grandmother has thoughtfully planned a really nice vacation for you and both she and your Dad are looking forward to spending time with you. It's not fair of us to expect them to change plans because I made a mistake. We'll read the book as soon as you get back..it is after all, only a book that you can read anytime, but this time spent with your Dad and Grandmother can never be replaced."
Why should the kid be penalized because his mother made a mistake with the calendar?
post #76 of 122
Am I the only one who picked up on the whole "next Friday" thing? It really sounds to me like this was NOT a planned in detail event by Grandma as much as a spur of the moment, hey, how bout we go to the Ozarks, can Grandson come, let's say, next Friday? That makes a difference to me, too. Had Grandma phrased it as, "We're planning this vacation and looking at July 20," I'm sure Mom would have caught that.
post #77 of 122
Your son is 11 years old. If he doesn't want to go on the trip, then HE should be the one to call up his grandma to explain that he will not be going and why.
post #78 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
Your son is 11 years old. If he doesn't want to go on the trip, then HE should be the one to call up his grandma to explain that he will not be going and why.
ITA. If it's his decision that you're respecting when backing out of the trip then it's his responsiblity to call both his dad and grandma to let them know why he won't be joining them.
post #79 of 122
I think that's just bizarre. Really. The child should be punished for mom's mistake? :

Not to mention, it's extremely manipulative - like a false choice. "You can stay, but YOU have to be the one to disappoint your Grandma." Way to make the kid feel like total crud for no reason whatsoever.
post #80 of 122
It wasn't his fault. he is 11. His life is enough for him. It is his paretns job to keep everything streight.

it is not his fault there is a conflict. It is his mothers, she dropped the ball, she needs to call grandma.
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