I just got home from the NICU.... - Page 2

[LBBmom]

Mamasquared...I totally agree with your mom. I think the BEST thing that any of these moms who had bad experiences can do is complain and see that things do get changed in the NICU where their babies were.

I know this is such a sensitive issue. And I know that a parent's emotions are running so high when their precious babies are in the NICU for whatever reason.

I worked last night, and we lost a baby who was born with a congenital diaphragmatic hernia. He only lived a few short hours. I think if anything, experiences like that make me remember that a live, healthy baby is the most important thing in the world.

I cared for 3 babies last night. 2 of them were little preemies who were just trying to get big enough to go home. Every 3 hours, I fed them mommy milk that their mother's so lovingly have pumped for them for weeks and weeks. They both had breastfed right before I came in. These babies weighed no more than 2-3 pounds!

Again, I'm sorry if *I* was a bit harsh. I am so passionate about what I do that it's hard to read things like "they treat animals better" and "no baby deserves to be treated like that".

I hope you all will have better experiences in the future. Hopefully, your babies won't ever have to be in the NICU again. skellbelle....your experience sounds a lot like the NICU's I've worked in. I'm glad it was positive for you.

[LBBmom]

Just one more thing I wanted to address...I have never heard of C/S babies being sent to the NICU for no reason, although I don't doubt that it has happened. Where I work, a NICU bed is one of the most expensive beds in the whole hospital. And we need every spare bed for the sick babies that actually need it. So we would never admit a baby without a true need. We are an intensely busy NICU though. But I could never see admitting a perfectly healthy baby to our unit and needlessly separating it from it's mother for no reason.

[Greaseball]

I believe this was popular in the 60s and 70s. You know, when c/s was done largely for medical reasons.:

Why can't all postpartum rooms be equipped with incubators and all that other special equipment so rooming-in would be possible?

[khrisday]

There is a lot of difference between NICU's of different levels, as well. My dd was at two different hospitals, at one- they could not even intubate babies, and the NICU was in fact the ONLY nursery. (I can't remember how the rating system for nurseries worked anymore) The other hospital she was at, there was an entire floor of nurseries. They handled the very sick babies that the other hospitals can't. There's a huge difference between a 5 lb preemie who was a few weeks early but breathing on his own and gaining weight, and a one pound pound micro-preemie who is ventilated and requires surgeries.
I am thankful for the nursing staff at both hospitals, all of whom are amazing individuals to choose this career path and were extremely helpful to us.
It's easy to generalize and say that the NICU is an overused and outdated system, but I am thankful that they exhist.
The very first "NICU" was in a traveling show- people allowed them to take their preemies on the road and display them to the public because there was no other incubators available. Think how far preemie care has come!

[bec]

Originally posted by LBBmom
Just one more thing I wanted to address...I have never heard of C/S babies being sent to the NICU for no reason, although I don't doubt that it has happened. But I could never see admitting a perfectly healthy baby to our unit and needlessly separating it from it's mother for no reason.

Speaking as a recipient of a c-section, I have to tell you that wasn't my experience. My daughter was a very large (10lb 6oz) baby who had lowish blood sugar. This was before she was even given the opportunity to nurse. I didn't see her for several hours after the surgery!

She was whisked away to the NICU, given formula, and antibiotics (just in case there might be an infection). She was hooked up to an iv, had hourly heel pricks to the point that both her feet were one big bruise when we came home, and had electrodes attached to her chest. When the machines gave a warning beep, the nurses did not even turn around! When my husband, alarmed, asked if everything was ok, they looked over their shoulders and said, "Yeah, she's fine. We look at the babies, not the monitors." It was unclear to me why she was hooked up to them then. Oh, and the nurses were not attending to any other babies at the time. They were doing paperwork.

I was not allowed to pick her up (except for one late night nurse towards the end that let me pick her up. She told me she could lose her job if anyone found out. It was a real treat. She was the only one that encouraged me to breastfeed my daughter, and the only one that was able to help me get a good latch), nor was I encouraged to breastfeed. I had to make a big fuss to have them call me in the night when she was hungry. I have suspicions that they didn't always follow my wishes in this matter.

The NICU is a great gift for sick babies. It can be a horror for healthy ones, though. I truly feel that more harm than good was done to my child when she was put in the NICU for three days. This is one of my primary motivations for having a homebirth with this next one.



Bec

[crazy_eights]

Originally posted by Greaseball
Why can't all postpartum rooms be equipped with incubators and all that other special equipment so rooming-in would be possible?

HUH? B/c babies that are sick enough to be in a NICU need lots of monitoring - their color, their oxygen saturation, their breathing rate, if they are on a ventilator, the vent settings, and much much more. So are we to have rooming in at all cost? Oh - and I forgot. Should the NICU nurse room in with you too? NICU care is about so much more than sticking a baby in an incubator!

[spero]

Originally posted by LBBmom
...a live, healthy baby is the most important thing in the world.

Amen, Amen, A-MEN!!!

Originally posted by Mom2six
...babies that are sick enough to be in a NICU need lots of monitoring...
NICU care is about so much more than sticking a baby in an incubator!

ITA, Mom@six.
Preemies (esp micropreemies) and critically ill babies (like my daughter was) need CONSTANT monitoring and care from trained professionals (and lots of love from family). I am confident in my mothering skills, but this is a *whole* different issue, altogether.

[Katana]

My experience with NICU was also a bad one. Which I'm sorry for, because I know that NICU is very necessary and valuable for the babies who need it.

Like mamabeard's son, my dd was also in there, only because she had low blood sugar. She was born about a month early, and it was hospital policy that she stay in NICU for a week. They didn't let me hold her, or even try to nurse her, just whisked her away. It's policy, they told me.

She got transfered to the regular newborn nursery after three days because she cried too much, and was too active. It was upseting the other parents that she was the only one in NICU screaming, otherwise the rest were still and silent.

Like some of the others have mentioned, I was only allowed in NICU a limited time. Every time a baby was having a procedure done, all the parents had to clear out. I wasn't allowed to nurse, because other parents couldn't. A baby was always having a procedure done, and there were also certain times we just weren't allowed in. I got to see her once a day, for about fifteen minutes, at the most.

It was the worst experience of my life. I will always remember standing there the first night she was born, crying, begging them to let me hold her, and the nurse told me I couldn't, because it would upset the other parents who couldn't hold their babies.

It's over and done with, but posts like the op make my heart ache and my tears start, becasue my dd was the one screaming, and no one held her because the staff did have other, much sicker or dying babies to attend to.

I, too, will be volunteering as soon as my kids are in school, to hold any baby that can be held. I never want anyone to feel the way I did.

[Greaseball]

Should the NICU nurse room in with you too?

Yes, if I so wish. Rooming in IS important and SHOULD be "allowed" at all costs. I don't believe it would ever be harmful to a baby. After my hospital birth I made it clear that anything needing to be "done" to dd would be done in my room, as she would not be going to the nursery. Wouldn't you know, I got what I asked for! Could it be nurseries are largely useless for routine care?

[crazy_eights]

Originally posted by Greaseball
Yes, if I so wish. Rooming in IS important and SHOULD be "allowed" at all costs. I don't believe it would ever be harmful to a baby. After my hospital birth I made it clear that anything needing to be "done" to dd would be done in my room, as she would not be going to the nursery. Wouldn't you know, I got what I asked for! Could it be nurseries are largely useless for routine care?

You are talking about a well baby, and yes, that care can be done in a pts. room. But you are totally out of touch (and I think it is a bit insulting to NICU care) with what goes on in these nurseries. NICU nurses care for several babies (how many depends on the hospital). NICU care costs $1000's per day. I guess if you are independantly wealthy, you could pay for the cost of having a NICU set up in your postpartum room (with the monitors alarming and beeping all night long, mind you) in your own private hospital, I suppose it could work. But otherwise, NICU's are there to take care of sick babies. If you want to move in next to your baby's isolette - by all means, go ahead. But to demand that your baby's care potentially be sacrificed in the name of rooming in?!?! A concept, btw, that was developed b/c *well* babies don't belong in a nursery. Sick babies *that could die* without the high tech care need far greater attention and care than could be given at mom's bedside. Sheesh! :

[crazy_eights]

Just wanted to add that this reminds me of parents (I'm an L&D nurse) who are so committed to the idea of "bonding and imprinting" that they are having a fit while resusitative measures are going on b/c they want to hold the baby and bond. NO JOKE. I have on occasion felt like saying "when you baby is not limp, blue and floppy and is breathing on his/her own I can give him/her to you, but right not don't be so self centered!!!!" (and I know that many midwives do some resusitation on mom's belly, but if you have chosen to give birth in a hospital where that they aren't set up for such a scenario, you are endangering your baby by insisting that they do otherwise).

[georgia]

Wouldn't this be great?

http://kangaroomothercare.com/ResearchKMC.html

I believe that many short-term NICU stays are iatrogenically induced during labor and birth. In these non-life-threatening instances (assumed low blood sugar, jaundice due to maternal medication, etc) wouldn't Kangaroo Mother Care be more beneficial than sticking the baby in a box? Notice where Dr. Bergman says the worst-case scenario for human babies is separation from mother!!! It makes complete sense to me that NICUs *should* do everything they can to help these babies stay with their mothers. It is NOT happening. I think it's quite appropriate to question NICU care, since most of what we received did NOT follow evidence-based protocols of care...I can only imagine what others experienced. I'm sure by definition, most anyone posting and reading this board is an advocate for babies and mothers....let's just say our NICU staff is not reading this.

Amy

nak

[spero]

Originally posted by Greaseball
Rooming in IS important and SHOULD be "allowed" at all costs. I don't believe it would ever be harmful to a baby.

I must assume, then, that you have never actually seen a baby who is critically ill, or one so tiny that it cannot even breathe on it's own.

My baby did room in with me, until her lung collapsed unexpectedly...then I could no longer care for her on my own until the problem was resolved. Thank God it happened while we were still in the hospital...if we were home we never would have made it to an ER in time to save her life.

I think that would be classified as "harmful to a baby"...but maybe I'm just crazy. I'm all for AP...as long as my child's life is not being compromised. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[bec]

It seems to me that there are two very different perpectives being voiced here.

On the one hand, those parents of very ill babies see the dedication, concern, and lifesaving measures that NICU staff are willing to go to to save their babies' lives. I'm not sure that anyone is questioning this, or the benefit these special units provide to our children. Perhaps there is a disagreement as to certain policies regarding holding, nursing, etc.

On the other hand, for those parents whose babies are basically healthy, but are showing some warning signs that there might be some trouble (like low blood sugar, jaundice, etc.), the NICU can be an absolute horror. Because the staff are trained to do everything they can to save the life of a baby, they are not willing to take a wait and see approach to these mostly healthy babies. To use my personal example, my daughter's blood sugar levels bounced back within 12 hours (after she had had some time to eat something and rest a while after having endured an exhausting labor and surgery), yet she was kept in the NICU because they had already started her on the antibiotics, and it was a 3 day course.

Healthy babies do not belong in a NICU. They belong with their mothers. I think the main gripe I have been hearing has been that a lot of people think that their babie's should not have been in the NICU to begin with, because they were not sick, but were treated like they were. We're not talking about the 1lb premie that can't breathe or swallow on their own. Mine was a 10lb 6oz full term baby. She got 9's on her apgars and just needed a little time to adjust. She hadn't been allowed to breastfeed when they tested her and found her blood sugars to be a "bit low." They assured me they weren't even at a dangerous level, but wanted to take "precautions." I'm not going to apologize for my opinion on this one. I think they really dropped the ball, and subjected her to bunch of unnecessary procedures. I am not attacking the purpose, necessity or dedication of NICU's in general.


Bec

[lilyka]

My baby was taken to the NICU. Not because she needed to be there but because hospital polocy said she needed to be there. and once they go into that bnlack hole it is hard to get them out. She would have been allowed to room in once they saw she was perfectly healthy but hospital policy required that she be on moniters and they only had two portable moniters and some other babies were using them (even though they were just hangng out in the nursery).

Madeline was born 6 weeks early (to the day) She was almost 6 pounds. She never once needed O2. her levels never sunk below 99%. she did need bili lights and she had trouble feeding . Most of her feeding problems were caused by the hospital (they fed her 3 ounces every three hour whether she wanted it or not. she had no way to refuse it., Then I was able to try and nurse her not that she was even remotely intrested. when she spit up because she was being ovewr fed they said she wan't tolerating her feedings very well : she wasn't latching on and then we found out the were sneeking in bottle without permission) Finally one day i came in and had a reakdow because she had lost 40g (the only weight she ever lost - hey guess what - babies lose thier birth weight a little) They finally let me room in that night, without constant supervision and we were out of there in 24 hours. I couldn't believe how fast things turned around for her. but whiole there I was always being encouraged to leave. It was like they were totally insensetive to the fact that a mama has to be near her baby. I also hated they way they refered to them as "thier " babies. This was salt in a wund. She screamed until she had convulsions every time I left (thier diagnosis was that she was over stimulated so she need to be not touched . when in reality she just wanted to be held) I never once heard her cry while I was there. they never told me she was doing this. I would have never left and they knew it and thier mission weas to get me to leave. Now she suffers from sensory integration disorder, and for a long time after her stay she hasd attatchment problems and PTSD typ problems. All that for a reletively healthy baby who never needed the specialized care of the NICU. who would have been just fine with a few hours of monitoring, and daily check ins. Or even rooming in outside the NICU. there is no reason to have highly trained nurses wasting time on a perfectly healthy baby when they could be taking care of the screaming infants who need thier love and affection.

Now it is common knowledge that this is a sucky NICU and a lot of things have changed since then. And I think a lot of babies get sent to the NICU because it is the most expensive bad in the hospital. 7 days (7 years ago) cost us $14,000 (uninsured by the way). today it would easily cost 3 times that.


Mamasquared - I am so glad there are nurses like your mom working in NICUS today and changing things for the better. If only she had been our admitting nurse they day we came in we may have been shown right out the door and saved everyone some stress.

[LBBmom]

A baby born at 34 weeks gestation should most definitely be admitted to the NICU, especially if you are accurate on your dates. I have never seen a hospital allow an infant under 35 weeks to go to the newborn nursery. Premature babies can be at great risk...one of the primary risks is apnea of prematurity. This is where the baby stops breathing and it's heart rate falls. If the baby is not on monitors, there is a good chance the baby will die. A majority of 34 weekers are, in fact, just fine. But I have seen a few who did devolop apnea. I think a few days monitoring is worth a child's life. Maybe I'm in the minority in that opinion?

I really wonder if a lot of you who think "there was nothing wrong with my baby" think that just because your child was big and robust? Even big term babies have problems. Just because your child "looks" okay and "acts" okay, does not necessarily mean it is so. Low blood sugar can cause serious harm in a neonate if left untreated, or if it is not treated aggressively enough. I have seen babies with "borderline" bloodsugars watched while rooming in, but if that initial blood sugar is really low, immediate attention is needed. Babies with low blood sugar also need to be monitored for other signs of hypoglycemia, such as jitteryness. It's hard to do that when they are bundled up and with mom.

I have a question...for those of you whose babies had low blood sugar, and you are having a homebirth, will you be monitoring your newborn's blood sugar at home?

I wouldn't be browsing this board if I didn't view birth as a wonderful, natural thing. I think normal, healthy babies SHOULD always be with mom. My babies were. But if my baby showed ANY sign of being in ANY kind of danger, I would not hesitate to send them to the NICU for a closer look.

Sometimes, I think some people get so one-sided, they forget that medical technology CAN be a good thing. I'm not saying it always is, but if my child's life were at stake, or even if there was a hint that everything wasn't alright, I'd forgo the "perfect" birth and the "perfect" mom/baby bonding period for the well-being of my child.

[LBBmom]

Re: Wouldn't this be great?

Originally posted by georgiamilk


I believe that many short-term NICU stays are iatrogenically induced during labor and birth. [/B]

I actually agree with you on this. But once the "damage" is done, the infant needs specialized care. Maybe the focus needs to be on the labor and delvery practices and not so much the course of care AFTER the baby is born? If one is fixed, maybe the other will be too.

I'd be curious to know what kind of labors all of the moms whose babies had low blood sugar had? Or jaundice?

My first baby was the only one who had a horrible start. He was sleepy for days, would not latch on or nurse, and he developed a nice case of jaundice. And he was the only really highly "medicalized" birth I had. It does make you think. I have no doubt that his rocky start was due to the horrible birth I had. My 2nd 2 were born completely naturally and we born alert, responsive, and latched on immediately.

[lilyka]

I don't disagree that a baby born at 34 weeks should be monitered. But there is no reason that it can't be monitered while rooming in with its mother. It isn't like they were sitting close to her monitoring her with thier eyes. They were sitting another room watching monitor screens for several babies at once. No big. So keep the moniters on. check thier weight daily. but good grief, NICU is a bit of an overkill for an obviously healthy baby. Not to mention over intervention can cause more problems than it prevents.

[mamabeard]

LBBmom.. i'll tell you my son's birthstory. i'm curious to know what you think.. not sure what kind of info you're looking for, in terms of what could have caused the low blood sugar, so i'll tell you everything that i believe could be relevant..

my waters broke around 6pm. it was a slow drizzle, and there was mecconium in it. around 11pm my midwife's partner midwife and my midwife's apprentice checked me, and told me it would likely be the next evening that i would give birth. they gave me some skullcap to help me sleep.. i took it and it made me very tired, but i couldn't sleep throo the contractions.. the next moring around 8 my midwife's apprenitce (who went on to become certified a day or two later) came.. my contractions were about 3 minutes apart. she was sure i'd be in labour for many more hours. my midwife was under the weather, as she'd been attending many births over the past few days, so the apprentice was there with me to help until my midwife was needed. suddenly a little after 9am my contractions started coming about a minute apart, and were incredibly painful. i threw up the yogurt i'd just eaten (the only thing i'd eaten since 7pm the night before, i believe).. i had 3 or 4 of these contractions when suddenly i had an incredibly strong urge to take a crap. i screamed this, and she assured me that many women felt the need, and to go ahead. so i started pushing for 30 seconds or so, and suddenly it dawned on her what was happening, and she told me to feel inside my vagina, and sure enough, my son's head was crowning, and there was blood all over my hand. i couldn't deliver him at home because she wasn't a midwife, we had no equipment, and there were mecconium in my waters. so she got me to call 911 (which sort of confused me, but i'm glad she did, cuz the opperater stayed on the phone with me until the ambulance arrived, and helped me pant to resist the incredibly strong urge to push. the ambulance drivers were obviously not used to this sort of situation, because they sat in my driveway for 10 minutes asking me every possible question they could think of (stuff like spell your address, and they kept asking me over and over if i was sure it wasn't *my* crap in the depends that i was wearing).. finally they drove to the hospital, gave me some oxygen on the way cuz i started hyperventilating from panting. from the time he crowned to the time i was allowed to push him out (which i did in less than 5 mins, once at the hospital), i had held him in for 45 minutes. his apgar was 8, i believe, as he was blue. he had been clutching his umbilical cord beside his head. he had a major hematoma (sp?) that lasted 6 weeks- the whole side of his head and face were smushed, from being stuck so long. my placenta was starting to fall apart, and we weren't sure of my dates, so they think he was over 42 weeks old, which could also explain the mecconium and the fact that his skin was peeling.

that's all i can think of right now. what do you think?

[bec]

My daughter's blood sugar levels stabilized within 12 hours. After she had had some time to rest and feed (they wouldn't let me breastfeed ) and recover from the labor. Labor started with my water breaking. There was stale meconium in the waters. She was 6 days past my due date. I labored for 9 hours, when they put me on pitocin. I labored on pit for 6 hourse before they decided on the section. I was told that her levels were on the "lowish side" but not near any danger levels.

The reason she had to stay in the NICU for 3 mortal days was because they put her on an antibiotic (without my knowledge or consent ) that had a 3 day course. She was placed on this antibiotic because it was routine for them to do so for every baby admitted to the NICU, whether it was indicated or not.

My homebirth will be attended by a medical doctor who knows mine and my daughter's history. I doubt I will consent to any blood testing unless there is a problem.


Bec