The big HP and the Deathly Hallows thread! *Contains spoilers* - Page 8

[flapjack]

Originally Posted by fastyfeet

Hated that JK had Molly shouting, "BITCH" (and even had to be in all caps. Great, just in case we didn't get it.) I'm tired of seeing and hearing that word everywhere- felt unnecessary and crude in context with the characters.

I think this is one of those transatlantic things. For me, her use of the word was shocking- as unexpected as it would be coming from a solid member of the Women's Institute, y'know?

[KaraBoo]

Re: the epilogue (I've already listed what I liked and what made me cry LOL)

I wanted to know more about the world after Voldy's defeat...not just necessarily who married who. I want to know about the Death Eaters who survived, the Dementors, is Azkaban open, is Luna's dad OK, what about the poor Muggles on the lam, where's Voldy's body buried, why Harry didn't go back and destroy the "thing hidden in the Snitch" so it couldn't be used again...

[flapjack]

And what happened to Neville's gran (who by rights should become the next minister for Magic and lick the whole planet into shape.)

[KaraBoo]

Neville's gran rocks. As does Neville.

[Mommiska]

I really really loved this book!

BUT - does anyone else think that the 'Harry as Horcrux' plot line has some major problems with it?

Harry worries about having part of Voldemort in him in book 5, controlling his emotions (when he wants to attack Dumbledore, etc), and Ginny tells him what it was like being possessed by Riddle through the diary - she didn't remember what she'd done, she did everything he wanted her to do, he totally controlled her.

So HOW can Harry be a Horcrux, with part of Voldemort's soul in him, yet still be Harry (kind, unselfish, doesn't want power, etc)? Doesn't make sense to me.

And at the end of book 5, when Voldemort goes into Harry, he can't stand to possess him because of Harry's soul, which is full of love - yet a part of Voldemort lives in Harry's soul permanently (and doesn't even begin to warp Harry's personality, even with the crap unbringing he got from the Dursley's?). This doesn't seem consistent at all.

So - I was disappointed with that, just because it doesn't make sense with the rest of her plot about Harry and Voldemort's relationship.

And the sword of Gryffindor - I read the book carefully, and have no CLUE how Neville got it. It disappeared with Griphook at Gringott's - so how did it show up again? I was wondering if I'd missed something and was going to ask about it!

But still - I really enjoyed the book, and I was glad to read what the Snape and Lily back story was (although you knew that he must have loved her). And my dh had told me ages ago that he was sure Snape and Dumbledore had a pact for Snape to kill Dumbledore because he was going to die anyway because of his cursed hand, so that wasn't a surprise either.

But Harry as Horcrux? I do think that makes sense of the fact that Harry could tune into Voldemort's actions/feelings while Voldemort couldn't really do the same with Harry (except, conveniently, when he needed to trick Harry into going to the Department of Mysteries in book 5 : ). But I don't see how Harry could be Harry with a part of Voldemort living inside of him.

I mean, heck - just wearing the Horcrux necklace put everyone in a bad mood/etc/etc, and the necklace tried to kill Harry. So how can Harry himself be a Horcrux and have that be consistent with everything else we know about Harry, Voldemort and the other Horcruxes?

Hmmm...

[zaksma]

Originally Posted by Mommiska

And the sword of Gryffindor - I read the book carefully, and have no CLUE how Neville got it. It disappeared with Griphook at Gringott's - so how did it show up again? I was wondering if I'd missed something and was going to ask about it!

He pulled it out of the Sorting Hat (like Harry did in CoS).

As for the Ron speaking Parseltongue thing, Harry had to say 'open' in Parseltongue to get the locket to open previously in DH so Ron heard it there. Plus, doesn't it mention Ron impersonating someone earlier in the book? So, that was the key to knowing he could heard someone's voice and replicate it. I'll have to search through the book to try to find that part.

[tboroson]

Ok, finally finished reading.... this thread! The book was the easy part (ok, this thread isn't nearly as long as it's going to be, I'm sure.)

Overall, I loved the book. Every time I had to put it down, I walked around anxious, with a pit in my stomach. I do think there were some holes in it, though: a lot of those holes were already mentioned here.

First thing... FRED! Tonks and Remus! Dobby :

But, then, Molly I *knew* she was going to have a role to play. Honestly, I was kind of surprised it was as small a role as it was, though I was totally cheering for her. It's been mentioned that she's a formidable witch in previous books. It was mentioned that she goes on missions for the Order. And it was obvious that she was a mama bear extrordinaire. I knew she'd be a firebrand at some point, I was kind of surprised it took that long for her to show her mettle. Though, arguably, the fact that she survived the battle that long (as did most of her children) probably speaks to her skill.

So, when Dobby showed up to help them in Malfoy's basement, why hadn't Harry thought to summon Kreacher to help?

We never did learn what happened at Godric's Hollow: how did everyone know exactly what happened? How did Voldemort's wand wind up rescued such that he got it back eventually? How could DD and Hagrid know where to go to rescue Harry if they didn't know Pettigrew was the Secret Keeper? I thought those questions were going to be answered!

What became of the Dursleys after all was said and done? I was disappointed that we never knew the outcome of a lot of people (Luna and her dad, George, many others), but the Dursleys, we don't even know if they successfully survived. Did Harry ever have any reconciliation with them, or Dudley at least? Speaking of Dudley, what *did* he experience with the Dementors?

Exit from the Chamber of Secrets: I thought Fawkes rescued them in CoS because they were injured, and had to travel back out through all the traps that had been laid. I wouldn't assume the chamber was normally un-leaveable because Riddle came and went from there readily back in his day. But, the Parseltongue thing... that was a little shaky there. Why didn't they take Harry with them? When he was told they were going to "a bathroom", why didn't he assume that one? That was *my* first thought - either they thought Myrtle had some valuable information, or they were going into the Chamber.

I agreed with the PP who said, why *did* they feel the need to wear the Horcrux? They could have kept it in either Harry's neck pouch or Hermione's nifty bag. Or even in a pocket.

How on earth did the members of Harry's Quidditch team get alerted to arrive??? Ok, I wasn't surprised to see Angelina Johnson - she seemed to have something going on with Fred all along. But, Oliver Wood? I thought he was busy playing Quidditch for a pro team. I never would have suspected that he would wind up connected to any members of the order. Even his longest standing Quidditch companions only seemed to know rumors of him after he left school, he didn't really seem to keep in touch with anyone.

Was Lavender Brown killed or just contaminated when Greyback attacked her?

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by zaksma

He pulled it out of the Sorting Hat (like Harry did in CoS).

Yeah - but how did it get from Griphook (who had it when the other 3 escaped from Gringott's) into the sorting hat? That's what didn't make sense to me...is there some kind of 'sorting hat' magic that pulls the sword to it or something? A bit weird (and if it was explained somewhere, I missed it).

[tboroson]

Oh, Harry as Horcrux: I don't think Harry was exactly the same as a Horcrux. Voldemort wasn't making a Horcrux spell at the time. He was an accidental Horcrux-like thing. So it might not have worked like the others. Further, the other Horcruxes seemed to work a little differently from one another. Perhaps this was due to the strength of Voldemort's soul at the time he made each one? The first (diary) got a full half of his soul, the second (ring) got only a quarter, the third (locket) an eighth, the fourth (cup) 1/16, the fifth (diadem) 1/32, the sixth (Harry) got only 1/64th. That's why the diary was able to actually possess Ginny, the ring didn't possess DD but was able to hurt him badly, the locketwas only able to make the wearers extra cranky. Although they didn't possess the cup or the diadem for long, nobody made any mention of feeling any discomfort or experiencing anything frightening with regard to them. Harry put his hand through the diadem without any ill effect.

Also, I think Harry's incredible strength of will kept the Voldemort part at bay. In book 5, when he's all hormonal and emotional and crap, Voldemort's bit of soul begins to make a little headway. That's why he felt like a snake was rising in him when he saw DD. After that, he gained control of himself again.



The misty room where Harry was with DD after death: did anyone else think it was the amphitheater of the veil? I thought he was just barely on the other side of the veil: I expected him to have to physically step through the veil in order to return to the world of the living. The flayed child in that room: clearly that was meant to be the bit of Voldemort's soul that was killed along with Harry. Does that, perhaps, mean that the bit of Voldemort that resided in Harry was the hurt and defenseless child? That makes sense: first, that bit of Volde-soul never had the will or power to overtake Harry, because it was Voldemort's "inner child" bit and not a powerful and hateful adult bit; second, Voldemort's getting rid of that bit of himself was the final transformation into a truly unhuman, unfeeling creature.

[tboroson]

I never got the impression anybody had placed the sword into the hat back in CoS when Harry pulled it out, either. The two objects were magically connected, and the hat was able to pull the sword to it.

[Mary]

I loved the book. It was just what I needed- cheese at the end and all. I was very pleased.

About Harry as a horcrux- I didn't read it to mean that Harry was a horcrux. I thought it was just an accidental consequence of Voldy's attemp to kill him. Just a smidgen of soul entered Harry. I though horcruxes were Voldy's deliberate attemp to put his soul into objects- Harry on the other hand was not deliberate.

Now that I'm reading everyone's comments and criticisms, I think some very god points are brought up. In spite of those good points, I liked how the whole thing played out and was perfectly willing to buy the whole thing, hook, line and sinker.

I had to put my beloved dog to sleep the day before the book came out and the whole life/death thing was very comforting for me- I needed that.

eta- I see someone beat me to bringing up the deliberate vs. accidental horcrux thing!

[Momtwice]

I loved Molly being in a rage and screaming "bitch." She was saying NO MORE. THIS ENDS NOW.

And now Ron and Harry have an even deeper bond...now Ron GETS it what it's like to have He Who Shall Not be Named murder a family member.

I LOVE!!! How Harry and Hermione and Ron are all family now and all Weasleys.

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by Mary

I had to put my beloved dog to sleep the day before the book came out and the whole life/death thing was very comforting for me- I needed that.

Mary

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by tboroson

First thing... FRED! Tonks and Remus! Dobby :

And Hedwig.

[zaadad]

Originally Posted by tboroson

Was Lavender Brown killed or just contaminated when Greyback attacked her?

I dont' think her got to her at all, didn't Trelawney bean him with a crystal ball and knock him back? Don't have the book in front of me.

Loved the book. By far the best she has written. I have to admit, I was a little apprehensive b/c such a short time passed between book 6 and book 7 and I thought surely she can't have had enough time to do it justice. But alas, what do I know?

OK, I am man enough to admit that I SOBBED through this book. It was such a roller coaster ride of emotions, I would go from laughing out loud to wrenching sobs. I cried in all the typical places, but the worse for me was Harry walking to Voldemort know he had to die. I could barely get the words out (I was reading out loud to my wife).

For me, JKR tied up all my questions and loose ends. I would have liked to have seen what happened with Luna in the epilogue. My biggest question that was answered was why DD smiled in book four when Harry tells him that Vold. took some of his blood. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why DD would smile at that.

What amazes me is how well planned out this series was.

CR

PS my wife told me that in the new HP movie, the director almost cut out Kreacher's role. JKR actually intervened and told him he can't do that. I know see why....I LOVED Kreacher.

[annettemarie]

The first words DH said to me this morning:
"I'm off to church. You're right, the epilogue sucked."

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by tboroson

I never got the impression anybody had placed the sword into the hat back in CoS when Harry pulled it out, either. The two objects were magically connected, and the hat was able to pull the sword to it.

This part confused me, too, but I didn't see people talking about it on the web anywhere, so it must just be from book 2. Another reward to people who read the books slowly, many times (as opposed to all in one day, once, like most of us.)

[gealach]

Originally Posted by tboroson

I never got the impression anybody had placed the sword into the hat back in CoS when Harry pulled it out, either. The two objects were magically connected, and the hat was able to pull the sword to it.

Exactly my thoughts. There is a magical link between the sorting hat (which originally was Godric Gryffindor's....remember the hat's song said Gryffindor "whipped him off his head") and Griffindor's sword. Whenever a true Griffindor needs it, he or she can reach in and pull out the sword. Neville is a true Griffindor. :

[gealach]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

The first words DH said to me this morning:
"I'm off to church. You're right, the epilogue sucked."

Can you ask him to pray for JK to publish an update that tells what happened between the Hogwarts battle and 20 years later? I'm sure whatever spiritual power you believe in would be happy to put in a good word for us.

[annettemarie]

LOL! And since he's a pastor, his prayers should count twice.

j/k I don't think it actually works like that.