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The big HP and the Deathly Hallows thread! *Contains spoilers* - Page 9

post #161 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessielove View Post
I can't wait for Dh to hurry up and read the seventh book. I'm so worried that I'm going to accidentally slip and let a spoiler loose! I won't even say the words Harry Potter around him or discuss anything from any of the books with him til he finishes
My dh is sitting in the living room reading right now. He's about halfway through (he's a very slow reader). It's killing me!!!!

I felt like this book was just too short - that too much was left out. I fully expected the book to be much longer. She needed to talk about other stuff.

I don't think Snape was a death eater at heart. I think he grew up an outcast and needed a place to fit in and found that with the death eaters. BUT - he was in love with Lily and that's what turned him.
post #162 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastyfeet View Post

I felt this this book was written to be turned directly into a movie: the pacing, the action in the beginning, the scenes that seemed edited out (Ron, Hermione, basilisk fangs), cheesy epilogue far in the future.
I agree with you in some ways. Except, I kind of hope that the movie will do a slightly better job of wrapping up the ending. I have a hard time believing that the movie will end with the trio in the headmaster's office before jumping to 20 years in the future. I think the movie might show more wrap-up. I think it might show them regathering after all that death and chaos. You know there will have to be a scene of Ginny/Harry reunited. Or maybe I'm just doing some wishful thinking. I have said before that I hate it when the HP movie scripts add things. But, in this case, I'm hoping for it.
post #163 of 1280
Ok. I'm still trying to figure out some things that I thought would be answered, and it seems that I'm not the only one. I thought we were supposed to see someone doing magic late in life, but unless I missed it, I didn't see anyone doing magic that hadn't done it before. For awhile last night, I thought maybe it was Ted Tonks....for some reason I was thinking that he was a Muggle. But nope, just Muggle-born. Maybe she meant Hagrid? But we've seen Hagrid do magic before, too. We didn't see Mrs. Figg at all....did Filch do some magic somewhere and I didn't take note?

I also thought that we were supposed to find out the professions of James and Lily.

We never did find out how the Potters and the Longbottoms thrice defied Voldemort.

I would have liked to have seen Neville be the one to off Bellatrix. Revenge and all that. But I was glad to see him come into himself.

The baby thing in the chapter where Harry is talking to Dumbledore? That is the piece of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry. Remember back in GOF, when Voldemort is reborn? When he's dropped in the cauldron, he looks the same way.

More to say, but the baby is fussing.
post #164 of 1280
Thread Starter 
Thinking about the Molly/Bella/Bitch thing. Here's why I don't like it. Maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but I don't know of any of the other "good" characters rejoicing in having to kill the Death Eaters, but I definitely got the feeling Molly wasn't offing Bella because it had to be done to preserve the balance of good and evil, but because she really, really wanted to. Maybe I'm reading something that wasn't there, but it wasn't "I'm killing you because you're evil" or even "I'm killing you to avenge my mad parents" (which would have made sense, Jo, dontcha think? ) but rather "I'm killing you because you just tried to screw with my kid."

Plus, I'm just not a huge fan of bitch as an insult.I find it to be rather woman-hating, and it especially bugs me when it's used by a woman to insult another woman, and I feel like JKR just totally fed into it.
post #165 of 1280
Thread Starter 
Oh, and "Accio Salmon!". She totally stole that from a fan fic I wrote.
post #166 of 1280
I am a little disappointed by this idea that everything has to be all tied up in a bow, all questions resolved, everything exactly spelled out as to what happens to each character afterward, and that since it isn't, the ending stinks.

That is so Hollywood and so why I don't watch very many mainstream movies. I feel it is a very patronizing idea. Why can't we just all decide for ourselves what happens to everyone?

Also, I think maybe JKR puts so much emphasis on Harry's having his mother's eyes because looking at his eyes reminds Snape of Lily and helps keep him resolved to follow the right path. And Snape's last words were to order Harry to look at him, so he could look at his eyes and see his mother's eyes for one last time. Wish I had more time to explain better but DH just yelled that if I don't get off the computer right now he is going to leave and not come back until late tonight. :
post #167 of 1280
Thread Starter 
Well, in my defense, Jo did sort of promise that everything was going to be wrapped up in a package with a pretty bow, so you can't really blame people for expecting it.

I don't mind the open-endedness. I mind the lameness of what she did tell us in the ended. Although I think the AS/S fan fiction shipping that is happening already is hilarious.
post #168 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboroson View Post
Oh, Harry as Horcrux: I don't think Harry was exactly the same as a Horcrux. Voldemort wasn't making a Horcrux spell at the time. He was an accidental Horcrux-like thing. So it might not have worked like the others. Further, the other Horcruxes seemed to work a little differently from one another. Perhaps this was due to the strength of Voldemort's soul at the time he made each one? The first (diary) got a full half of his soul, the second (ring) got only a quarter, the third (locket) an eighth, the fourth (cup) 1/16, the fifth (diadem) 1/32, the sixth (Harry) got only 1/64th. That's why the diary was able to actually possess Ginny, the ring didn't possess DD but was able to hurt him badly, the locketwas only able to make the wearers extra cranky. Although they didn't possess the cup or the diadem for long, nobody made any mention of feeling any discomfort or experiencing anything frightening with regard to them. Harry put his hand through the diadem without any ill effect.
OK - that helps make some sense of it. But I still think that if Harry had an actual part of Voldemort's soul in him, it would be very difficult for that not to have had more ill effects. Although I guess Lily's sacrifice for him has given him some extra magical protection against the evilness of Voldemort's soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tboroson View Post
The flayed child in that room: clearly that was meant to be the bit of Voldemort's soul that was killed along with Harry. Does that, perhaps, mean that the bit of Voldemort that resided in Harry was the hurt and defenseless child? That makes sense: first, that bit of Volde-soul never had the will or power to overtake Harry, because it was Voldemort's "inner child" bit and not a powerful and hateful adult bit; second, Voldemort's getting rid of that bit of himself was the final transformation into a truly unhuman, unfeeling creature.
This sounds plausible, except that in the books, Voldemort never seemed to have any 'inner child'. From the very first, he seems to have been convinced he was 'special' or better than others, and to have used his power to hurt others (even from a young age at the orphanage).

I read the hurt defenseless child creature just to mean that in fracturing his soul so many times, he'd made each part much weaker than it would have been if left whole - add to that how evil he was, and you get this horrible child-like thing that Harry can't bear to touch, even while he feels sorry for it.
post #169 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessielove View Post
He wasn't though. He was only Dumbledore's man by default. Snape was for Lily and Lily alone. Her way was with Dumbledore, so that's where he went. Had Lily been a Death Eater killed by Dumbledore Snape would have been Moldy Volde's man.

Snape wasn't evil, but he wasn't all good either. He was human, complex and convoluted. He was a Death Eater through and through but for his one major redeeming quality ~ his love for Lily. Even 16 years after her death he still conjured her Patronus and protected her son at immense risk to himself. He gave up much and in the end his own life for Harry, but it wasn't for Dumbledore at all. It was for Lily.
He was Dumbledore's man, because Snape was also Lily's man, and therefore Harry's man. Whether it was by default or out of direct loyalty, it didn't matter--he was still true to Dumbledore, because he felt that Dumbledore was doing best by Lily and Harry.



The more I think back on the book, the more I liked it. I like books that leave something to the imagination, no epilogues. I don't like the neatly packaged ending, and epilogues usually do that.

Like, I imagine that Luna and Dean hooked up. It looks like they were headed that direction, when they were staying at Bill and Fleur's.



Tboroson--I, too, fully expected Harry to step through the archway at the end of that chapter. I agree, I think that "misty room" in Book 7 was a part of whatever was behind the veil in Book 5.



I know a lot of people are discontented with the number of deaths, and how quickly and without fanfair a lot of them occurred--but that's how death is. I would think in those situations, it's so intense, all these people around you are alive...and then one (or more) of them is dead. You don't have time to mourn. You either give up or go on. I haven't been around people who've died in a traumatic situation, but I imagine that in a war situation, you don't have time to mourn your dead; you just go on, others step up to take their place, and you deal with it.
post #170 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Maybe I'm reading something that wasn't there, but it wasn't "I'm killing you because you're evil" or even "I'm killing you to avenge my mad parents" (which would have made sense, Jo, dontcha think? ) but rather "I'm killing you because you just tried to screw with my kid."

Plus, I'm just not a huge fan of bitch as an insult.I find it to be rather woman-hating, and it especially bugs me when it's used by a woman to insult another woman, and I feel like JKR just totally fed into it.

In response to what I bolded: And because Bellatrix's master/partner (not directly, but those on his team) had just killed her other kid. I think it was perfectly understandable rage at Fred's murder and protecting Ginny. It was all the years of worry about all her kids boiling over at that point.

I hear you about hating the word. I really do. I know that in real life when loved ones die, people can be really nasty and mean. I felt this made Molly more human and made me feel more connected to her. She had always been a caricature to me before (especially in the movies.)

I understand your feelings though, really I do. We don't all have to see it the same way.

And I loved the sappy little epilogue. But I could have used another chapter before it. I wanted a funeral for Fred.
post #171 of 1280
OK, I'm going to post here, list my thoughts after finishing the book, and THEN I'll go back and read the other 100+ posts on this thread.

I'm pissed that she left off the last book without the Hogwart's express, making that ending feel less satisfying, and then starts this book a couple weeks later. Why couldn't she have included at least a paragraph about Harry saying goodbye to Ron and Hermione at King's Cross Station? I was speculating that lots of things would happen before leaving Hogwarts, that there had to be SOME reason she didn't end with the train, and then NOTHING!!!

I'm bummed by all the things we didn't learn in the epilogue. Does Teddy show any werewolf tendencies, or is he perfectly normal? Who raised him? What happened to all the other characters- who did they marry, what did they do after graduation, etc?

Did Harry, Hermione, Ron, or Draco ever go back and finish up their 7th year at Hogwarts? What do any of them do for a living? What did Harry's parents do for a living?

Did I miss the scene where Greyback was killed, or did JKR actually let him live?

BIG PLOT HOLE::

How did anybody in the Order trust Snape after Dumbledore's death? How on earth did Snape learn about the plan to move Harry? Why didn't the Order change the date after Snape's apparent defection?
post #172 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Although I think the AS/S fan fiction shipping that is happening already is hilarious.
What is AS/S fan fiction shipping?!
post #173 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
Also, I think maybe JKR puts so much emphasis on Harry's having his mother's eyes because looking at his eyes reminds Snape of Lily and helps keep him resolved to follow the right path. And Snape's last words were to order Harry to look at him, so he could look at his eyes and see his mother's eyes for one last time.

Oh, for some reason I didn't even make that connection. Wow, what a devoted man. Rowling puts so much emphasis on loyalty. To do all that for a woman you loved, who you insulted and who then scored you, who married a man you considered your enemy, who produced a child who strongly resembles that man, to continue to risk your life and protect that child all because of the memory of this woman and your devotion to her--wow, what a love story.
post #174 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
How on earth did Snape learn about the plan to move Harry?
Didn't Dumbeldore tell him how it would go down before he died?
post #175 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Maybe I'm reading something that wasn't there, but it wasn't "I'm killing you because you're evil" or even "I'm killing you to avenge my mad parents" (which would have made sense, Jo, dontcha think? ) but rather "I'm killing you because you just tried to screw with my kid."
I think it was a little more than that. I think it was more, "I'm killing you because I've already lost one kid and if I let you live, I'll lost another." Bellatrix was doing more than "screwing" with people.
post #176 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
I am a little disappointed by this idea that everything has to be all tied up in a bow, all questions resolved, everything exactly spelled out as to what happens to each character afterward, and that since it isn't, the ending stinks.

That is so Hollywood and so why I don't watch very many mainstream movies. I feel it is a very patronizing idea. Why can't we just all decide for ourselves what happens to everyone?
I don't think everyone wants EVERYTHING to be tied up in a bow, but a little more closure to the story would have been nice. The battle ends and basically, so does the story. This isn't just some story either - this is a saga of seven books that people are very emotionally vested in. I mean, come on - what other book have people stood in line for hours to get at midnight besides Harry Potter. To just drop the story is kind of lame. The story is SO involved that there is no way she could have tied EVERYTHING up without writing a 1500 page book, so there would have been plenty for everyone to "decide for ourselves", but she still could have added more to the ending. I really hate it when you've been wrapped up in this huge, long, involved story and then BAM it just ends. She could have resolved a bit more.
post #177 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtwice View Post
Didn't Dumbeldore tell him how it would go down before he died?
Yes, the plan was in place before Dumbledore died.
post #178 of 1280
I wondering about Snape's portrait too. It could be that it wasn't there because he wasn't hte 'rightful headmaster' - but then in the epilogue harry mentions him as a headmaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
I am a little disappointed by this idea that everything has to be all tied up in a bow, all questions resolved, everything exactly spelled out as to what happens to each character afterward, and that since it isn't, the ending stinks.

That is so Hollywood and so why I don't watch very many mainstream movies. I feel it is a very patronizing idea. Why can't we just all decide for ourselves what happens to everyone?
I dislike the idea that wrapping up the ending is cliched. I don't want to decide for myself on these things, I can imagine a million different things happening, I want to know what JKR intended, because there were things she broguht up and never resolved. As a reader, I came to the end and felt like something was missing. You don't have to give a biography of everyone's life to wrap it up a little bit more. Especially given how descriptive she is everywhere else. Every other book ends with some sort of wrap up after Harry saves the day - if Chamber of Secrets had ended in the chamber, if sorcerer's stone had ended by the mirror, if prizoner of azkaban had ended with sirius flying away, if goblet of fire had ended on hte quittich pitch, etc than this ending would make sense with her other books, but all the other books have a little bit more take the characters at least a few minutes past the finale, etc. I'm not looking for years here, I'm juust looking for a big more like she gave in every other one of her books.
post #179 of 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten View Post
I am a little disappointed by this idea that everything has to be all tied up in a bow, all questions resolved, everything exactly spelled out as to what happens to each character afterward, and that since it isn't, the ending stinks.

That is so Hollywood and so why I don't watch very many mainstream movies. I feel it is a very patronizing idea. Why can't we just all decide for ourselves what happens to everyone?

No, I don't want a pretty bow, really. I just wanted a chapter more like she ends the other books. I didn't really want to see her go through and say, for example, McGonagall become headmistress, Luna and Neville hook up, Kreacher becomes the leader of the free-but-still-working-happily-at-Hogwarts house-elfs. I can imagine all that and decide what happens to each character in my head. I didn't want more of her epilogue-type stuff.

I want to see them, as the age they currently are, continuing on with their lives after Voldemort is defeated. I want to see them recover a bit from the battle. I wanted to see the trio as they are in the final books, so connected and important to one another. I wanted a bit of mourning for the dead mixed with a sense of hope that the wizarding world is going to be brighter in the end. If all that had happened, I would have been completely okay with omitting the epilogue and who-marries-who and becomes-what stuff.

And, by the way, I still loved the book even though I have this criticism. It most definitely did not stink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post

I don't mind the open-endedness. I mind the lameness of what she did tell us in the ended. Although I think the AS/S fan fiction shipping that is happening already is hilarious.
Okay, not enough sleep lately. I can't work out who AS/S would be. PM me if you need to.
post #180 of 1280
finished at 3 am

Overall I'm happy with the wrap up of the series.

Two, although in the last battle I also a felt a little "gee another one dies," the fact is, in fighting evil people die. And its not always a hero's death. Sometimes people just die in battle to an underling, to an accident, every character doesn't get an epic battle/death.

Lots of unanswered questions, but they don't bug me so much because I read for the big picture, not the details. I never was good at solving mysteries in books before the end because I miss the little things anyway, so they don't worry me.

I'm still crushed by Fred, Lupin and Tonk's deaths. Those were the hardest for me.

I totally thought Snape was evil. I questioned it back and forth after book 6, but the beginning and middle of the book convinced me he was evil. And you know what? He was evil. Just he had a "fatal flaw" in his love for Lily. Without that, Voldy would've won.
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