Nursing Mamas, how are you doing? - Page 3

[queenbean]

Originally Posted by Jennah_Gole

BV - I was just wonderng that if you get your milk faster doesnt it deprive the new baby of the much needed colostrum. My milk usually comes in on the 3rd day so baby gets colostrum for that period of time - if its less than 24hours maybe thats not a benefit but i dunno - just like to hear ur two cents or anyone else who has experience with this.. thanks.

I have been wondering the same thing. All that I've read says not to nurse the older baby for the first couple of days so that the newborn gets plenty of colostrum, but all the mothers I've asked tell me that they nursed both from the start, maybe limiting the toddler but still allowing him/her to nurse. I'm a bit confused.

[bryonyvaughn]

Originally Posted by Jennah_Gole

...BV - I was just wonderng that if you get your milk faster doesnt it deprive the new baby of the much needed colostrum. My milk usually comes in on the 3rd day so baby gets colostrum for that period of time - if its less maybe thats not a benefit but i dunno - just like to hear ur two cents or anyone else who has experience with this.. thanks.

Books describe colostrum and mature milk as two separate things... you start off with colostrum then at a magic time there's a biological retooling and 'Voila!' you have mature.

I think it's more accurate to think of colostrum and mature milk as on both along the nursing spectrum. We travel from one to the other with continual shifts by imperceptibly fine degrees. Newborn mature milk is different than 3mo milk, which is different than 12mo milk and 24mo milk. As my 2 and 3 day old babies are still getting lots of colostrum mixed in with elements of mature milk, I don't believe they are being deprived.

~BV

PS: It *might* feel more comfortable nursing later in pregnancy once the colostrum comes in. A lot depends on the mother, yeast, baby's suck style, etc. It's hard to predict with so many variables.

[Jennah_Gole]

s wut ur sayin is that once the mature milk comes n the baby is still gettin colostrum but its mixed in with the mature milk....could you tell me where i could find that info?


my question was purely to figure out if baby wud be missin out on the benefits of the colostrum which is high in concentrated nutrition for the newborn and actually helps the baby pass his first stools and that aids in excretion of bilirubin which helps prevent jaundice among other benefits.

I think I would like to take a poll and see how long it takes the average women to get her milk in -- maybe it is important for the baby to get pure colostrum for the three days (I think for most women it is around three days)for the benefits of it before the mature milk comes in.

The concentration of immune factors is much higher in colostrum than in mature milk.

fron La Leche League

So now I am really confused ............help ladies...help!

[Jennah_Gole]

oh i also found this which was very very interesting:

Stomach capacity of the newborn
When mothers hear that colostrum is measurable in teaspoons rather than ounces, they often wonder if that can really be enough for their babies. The short answer is that colostrum is the only food healthy, full-term babies need. The following is an explanation:

A 1 day old baby's stomach capacity is about 5-7 ml, or about the size of a marble. Interestingly, researchers have found that the day-old newborn's stomach does not stretch to hold more. Since the walls of the newborn's stomach stays firm, extra milk is most often expelled (spit up). Your colostrum is just the right amount for your baby's first feedings!

By day 3, the newborn's stomach capacity has grown to about 0.75-1 oz, or about the size of a "shooter" marble. Small, frequent feedings assure that your baby takes in all the milk he needs.

Around day 7, the newborn's stomach capacity is now about 1.5-2 oz, or about the size of a ping-pong ball. Continued frequent feeding will assure that your baby takes in all the milk he needs, and your milk production meets his demands.

La Leche League

[queenbean]

Just wanted to bump this thread and see how everyone's doing.

It's going much better for us the past couple of days. My daughter has finally decided that it's not worth it to nurse except at naptime and bedtime, and maybe two other times during the day, because most of the time when she wants to nurse it's strictly utilitarian -- she's thirsty, and since there's no milk in there, her cup is better. I'm sad about it, but it's a relief because I don't feel like I'm losing my mind so much anymore. I'll continue to let her comfort nurse at least at nap and bedtimes, and any other times if I can stand it, and hopefully she'll pick up where she left off when the baby comes. Nights have gotten better too -- she's *mostly* nightweaned now. The only problem now is, she's been waking up at 5:30 am, ready to go for the day, since she's sleeping so much better at night. : Ah well, we're all more rested, and she's switched to one long nap instead of two shorter ones, so I can sleep with her during the day. It works.

[HardCoreMom]

hi there. i haven't been around the birth club lately- i'm glad to see this thread is still alive.

nursing my 27mo ds has gotten a lot better in this trimester, though i hate the popping on and off (especially during storytime at bed, as he wants to see what daddy is reading). the discomfort isn't so bad, though i do have my days (usually when i'm underslept and cranky to begin with).

we just got a new twin size bed and pushed it up against the queen we have on the floor in our bedroom. although we've started the boys in their own beds at night, they always end up crowding us in ours (sometimes as soon as midnight), and though we all love co-sleeping, it's a concern for me that there won't be enough room once the baby gets here. plus, sometimes i feel like my nursing's having my boobs right there in his face all night helps encourage him to nurse when he might just sleep soundly instead, and consequently let me sleep more soundly, too. so now i have the twin for me (and eventually the babe), and we all have more room. hopefully, it will lead to better nights.

the nursing is fine, though. don't think my supply has dropped much lately. i'm still eating oatmeal every morning, though i do tire of it, and i bet that helps some. like someone else mentioned, i had the incredible shrinking boobs for a while, and felt very un-pregnant in that sense, but now they seem to be picking up a bit. being tiny-chested to begin with, i feel that i totally deserve that part of pregnancy.

hope you are all well...

[simplehome]

Last night when ds woke up, he said "Mama, I wanna nurse no milk", basically saying that he knows there's no milk, but he wants to nurse anyway. It was so sweet...

So many people IRL think this is a totally creepy concept (nursing for comfort at 2.5---they can swallow it if it's for food, I guess) but I knew that some of you here would understand. He went through a rough patch a week or two ago when he finally admitted that the milk was all gone (it has been for over 8 weeks now, I think). He was just sobbing and so upset every night, and it broke my heart. I'm glad it seems like he's come to some sort of peace with it, and knows that he can nurse anyway.

I'm hoping that he'll make it to January----he didn't nurse at bedtime tonight, and I worry that he'll be done before the milk comes back, but that the memory will still be there and there will be jealousy. It seems like if he can still nurse, too, things will be so much easier!

[neverdoingitagain]

Hi! I have a 3 year old, still nursing. I haven't had milk for months either, though lately...lo and behold.. colostrum? Something anyways. She's very excited about it.
When I first got pregnant, my employer knew I was still nursing, and ended up ambushing me one day, telling me that I had to wean before the baby came. I stood my ground, and told her I was going to nurse as long as my baby wanted, and that if she didn't wean naturally, then I guess I would be tandem nursing. You can only imagine the mortification She hasn't bugged me since. Considering I work in a health food store, I think I got off pretty easy. Most people would have been freaking out if I told them I was still nursing my dd BEFORE I got pregnant
I don't mind my dd nursing, if she would just stay off my stomache! Seriously! Its not pillow, and no, I really can't breath all that great between the two of you! :
Ah well, at least she's still nursing. Thats going to be handy when the baby comes.

[simplehome]

Originally Posted by neverdoingitagain

Ah well, at least she's still nursing. Thats going to be handy when the baby comes.

That's what I figure, but somehow no one seems to get what I'm thinking. It's just intuition, I guess. Even at LLL, people seem to think that I WANT him to wean. It's a fine line, though----it really hurts, yet I want him to be able to continue until the milk comes back. No colostrum for us yet. With my first pg, it was there at 16 wks!

[paniscus]

DS has kind of weaned. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. He was only nursing to sleep when I got pregnant but when my milk dried up he was pretty upset. We had to work hard at helping him find another way to go to sleep. Now he only asks to nurse occasionally and he just kind of puts his mouth on one, asks to switch and does the same to the other side.

I have mixed feelings about tandem nursing. Anyone have any comments one way or the other??

[lilylove]

I have not tandem nursed so take my opinion for what it's worth
Some woman I know have tandemed with little complaint and found it incredibly helpful for their own piece of mind and easing the transition for the older child. Some woman have found it very hard and more of a challenging experience. Each mother's decision and experience is unique, based on her and her children's needs.
Perhaps some other's in our DDC can share with you their tandem nursing experiences. My daughter weaned before I even conceived my son, so nursing through this pregnancy is a new experience for me.

Have you read Adventures in Tandem Nursing?

[HardCoreMom]

i'm nervous that when it comes time to tandem nurse, my toddler won't want to share. and he's pretty much had my chest all to himself, wherever, whenever, however. so i'm worried about his flexibility and understanding when he becomes second in line for the breast. i hope that tandem nursing helps smooth things over for us, rather than increasing a struggle.

but here's one of my big nursing-related concerns of late:
ds has always nursed himself to sleep. always. i don't think either of us would have it any other way. at the end of a long day, it's the perfect way to reconnect and send him into a nurtured, peaceful sleep. i doubt he'll be changing that pattern anytime soon (but what do i know?)-- so i'm nervous about being away from home. i wish homebirth was an option for us, but we're just too far away from an emergency facility were either me or the babe to need care. i like my mw and all, but i wish i didn't have to go far away to give birth, away from my nursling. i know it's going to really upset him to have me not there at night. i'm sure we'll make time to nurse while i'm in the hospital, but it's not the same as that bedtime cuddle. it will be a happy homecoming when i can put both of my nurslings down to sleep at night.

hcm

[bryonyvaughn]

Sorry about the late reply, Jennah. I wasn't subscribed and just noticed your post as this got bumped up today.

Originally Posted by Jennah_Gole

s wut ur sayin is that once the mature milk comes n the baby is still gettin colostrum but its mixed in with the mature milk

Exactly.

....could you tell me where i could find that info?

Well, in animal husbandry it's called "transition milk". Maybe you could do a google search "transition milk" +human . If you can't find much that way I'd suggest reading the farm animal articles. Their lactation has been far better studied than human lactation. It's a business.

I don't know if it's the LLL's Womanly Art of Breastfeeding or one of their tandem nursing books. You could always attend a meeting or call a hospital based lactation consultant saying you're concerned how your decisions now might impact the benefit your yet to be newborn will get from nursing.

FWIW mature milk is a misnomer. 1mo milk is different than 9mo milk which is different than 18mo old milk which is different than 36mo milk. Milk changes during growth spurts, illnesses, time of day, etc. Even the experts who like the term "mature milk" will use "transitional milk" to describe the first few weeks lactation.

~BV

[imommajen]

Originally Posted by Jennah_Gole

my question was purely to figure out if baby wud be missin out on the benefits of the colostrum which is high in concentrated nutrition for the newborn and actually helps the baby pass his first stools and that aids in excretion of bilirubin which helps prevent jaundice among other benefits.

Ds was 2yr 2mos when dd was born. My milk came in almost immediately (I think it was w/in 24 hours). I had a huge issue w/oversupply (ds was in HEAVEN!-Milk again-Whee!) & dd had frequent vomiting for a while until I assigned them each a breast and achieved equillibrium. Dd had no issues w/jaundice or passing her first stools. She never needed any antibiotics until she was about 19 mos, but ds was prescribed abx frequently in his first year for bronchitis/asthma. IMO, both of your "babies" will get what they need, just as in birthing, your body knows what it's doing (barring extenuating health issues/circumstances).

Originally Posted by HardCoreMom

i'm nervous that when it comes time to tandem nurse, my toddler won't want to share. and he's pretty much had my chest all to himself, wherever, whenever, however. so i'm worried about his flexibility and understanding when he becomes second in line for the breast. i hope that tandem nursing helps smooth things over for us, rather than increasing a struggle.

but here's one of my big nursing-related concerns of late:
ds has always nursed himself to sleep. always. i don't think either of us would have it any other way. at the end of a long day, it's the perfect way to reconnect and send him into a nurtured, peaceful sleep.

I nursed ds throughout dd's pregnancy & he just weaned this May (shortly after I became pregnant this time). It was very difficult for me b/c he really needed to nurse emotionally and often & has a short tongue (difficult latch), but I knew weaning him would have been the wrong thing (he was only 18 mos when I conceived dd). I'd read all about adoring mothers watching as their nurslings gazed lovingly into each other's eyes and held hands-Not by a long shot here! However, I will say, despite the tears & shoving & dramatics, it was definately a worthwhile experience for me & I did end up w/one or 2 loving moments There were times when being able to nurse them both at the same time saved everyone's sanity. There were times when needing to nurse both of them at once nearly cost me mine! In the end, I believe that both of my babies needed to nurse & we worked to accomodate everyone as best we could.

In the beginning, getting us all to sleep was the single worst thing about having 2 kids. It was the source of all of my trauma, guilt, anxiety, etc... The problem was that they had to go to sleep @ the same time from the beginning. Dh couldn't keep either one out of the bedroom w/o a major heart-breaking tantrum (my newborn, my firstborn-I am torn!). What ended up eventually working for us was tandem nursing for 10 minutes, then nursing my dd (infant) to sleep. If ds was still awake @ that time, I would nurse him again. However, by 3 mos, this routine changed & dh could keep dd up for those 10 mins & ds would nurse alone. Then I would still hold him while I nursed dd. Usually, he'd be asleep right after w/o a hitch. The big key was that he gave up his afternoon nap @ that time. At first I fought it, but it allowed us to do something in the afternoons and made him tired enough to fall asleep easily @ night. He never looked back at nursing to sleep.


A week ago, my biggest fear was that dd was weaning. I just wasn't prepared. She was never as serious a nurser as ds (there were definately times where dd nursed longer & more frequently than she did). One day she just said "no milk in the nurses mama!" & almost totally stopped nursing during the day. However, she's back in there this week. I find that I'm really interested to see what she'll be like as the big sister-the big nurser. Plus, I guess I do feel that they did do a lot of bonding over the boob after all :

Good luck to all!

[HardCoreMom]

thanks for your insight, jen.

i think a big thing that will help with putting two nurslings to bed is that both of my ds's (my nursling and his older bro), now start the night in their own shared bedroom. we began transitioning them to this the weekend we learned i was pg with #3. they always are welcome to come back into our room and bed at night, and do nearly every night, with the exception of one or two they've slept through. so i'm sure to still have a night nurser in ds#2 when the baby comes along. but the new babe will sleep in our bed exclusively, so hopefully, i can put them down separately. i don't know if we'll have the baby in for our nighttime routine with the older boys or if he'll be asleep already... guess we'll figure that out as it comes. but i hope that the boys starting the night in their own room (which they seem to really enjoy, and has never been anything pushed on them) will really come in handy come january. guess we'll see!

i can totally imagine tandem nursing both saving our sanity and costing me my sanity, too! ds#2 has been a very intense, needy guy (not criticizing, i love him to bits!), and it will be interesting to see if the "competition" is something to bond or fight over. i hope to have some of those "loving moments" you write about.

in the least, i could never, ever imagine weaning my child. it goes against every fiber in my body and in my heart. not hatin' on other moms who do it. it's just really not for us. i'm in this for the long haul- as long as the babes will do it with me, struggle or no struggle. (remind me of this, ok?!)

[Jennah_Gole]

ditto the the thanks jen ...I was looking for someone to give me some insight on the colostrum thing and help some fears that I have of nursing two at the same time...

I did xpost my questions in the breastfeeding forum and did get some answers there...one thing which was sort of the solution I was looking for which you mentioned Jen was assigning a breast for each child and one poster had mentioned that a certain book stated that the new baby could get enough from colostrum from one breast as there are moms who can only feed from one breast so that put me at ease and ur post has reassured me...thanks again.

just an update....ds is still bfing well during the day vigorously -- he is is teething he has only had four teeth for the past 4months and looks like he is trying to get the next two on the bottom and the top.

I moved his crib into his brothers room and did the side car arrangement onto his brothers bed. I took off one side of the crib and pushed it against his brothers bed. The other side of the crib is against the wall so that it doesnt slide away from his brother's bed. So he has been sleeping there for the past three weeks but its been on and off since he is teething and did get sick...but when he is okay he sleeps there and when he wakes up at night I go and soothe him back to sleep....he has been getting up at least four times a night and i hope that after he finishes teething we can resume this arrangement and by the time baby is born he will be used to sleeping there.

Now when morning hits I breastfeed him and he knows I wont breast feed him at night but will only hug him and pat him back to sleep...so we are taking it little steps at a time.

[kehliouise]

my milk has all dried up, but ds still trys to nurse. it doesn't seem to bother him, but it is killing me. it seems to hurt even more now that there is no milk. is this what anyone else is experiencing. maybe he is sucking harder because there is no milk. i don't know. but i really wish that he would stop all together at this point...even though i had thought about tandem nursing. it just hurts so bad and at night i can't sleep at all if he is trying to nurse. i don't have the patience that i had before i was pregnant either. in a perfect world i would love for him to quit all together and pick it up later if he wanted to when the baby comes, but that seems unrealistic. if he quit all together he would probably quit forever. i just always thought tandem nursing would be a bonding experience for the two of them.

[imommajen]

Originally Posted by kehliouise

my milk has all dried up, but ds still trys to nurse. it doesn't seem to bother him, but it is killing me. it seems to hurt even more now that there is no milk. is this what anyone else is experiencing. maybe he is sucking harder because there is no milk. i don't know. but i really wish that he would stop all together at this point...even though i had thought about tandem nursing. it just hurts so bad and at night i can't sleep at all if he is trying to nurse. i don't have the patience that i had before i was pregnant either. in a perfect world i would love for him to quit all together and pick it up later if he wanted to when the baby comes, but that seems unrealistic. if he quit all together he would probably quit forever. i just always thought tandem nursing would be a bonding experience for the two of them.

If it's any consolation, others told me to expect my colostrum to come in in another month or 2 (possibly). They definately suck harder when there is no milk! My dd also likes to squeeze & pinch too.

It's funny, but when ds was nursing during dd's pregancy, I would lie in bed for hours staring @ the ceiling "suffering" & going crazy, but I knew he would never stop. Rather, I knew it was the wrong thing for him to stop. With dd now, I'm so fearful of her stopping! Granted, she'll nurse for only a few minutes at a time & I probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic about her continued nursing if she was a marathoner

About the night nursing though, you know your child better than anyone, but I don't think it's so horrible to suggest waiting until the sun comes up to nurse again after bedtime. IMO, he'll let you know if this is not okay with him! Nursing is a relationship & both people should share in the good feelings!

[Tiffany_PartyOf5]

Originally Posted by kehliouise

my milk has all dried up, but ds still trys to nurse. it doesn't seem to bother him, but it is killing me. it seems to hurt even more now that there is no milk. is this what anyone else is experiencing. maybe he is sucking harder because there is no milk. i don't know. but i really wish that he would stop all together at this point...even though i had thought about tandem nursing. it just hurts so bad and at night i can't sleep at all if he is trying to nurse. i don't have the patience that i had before i was pregnant either. in a perfect world i would love for him to quit all together and pick it up later if he wanted to when the baby comes, but that seems unrealistic. if he quit all together he would probably quit forever. i just always thought tandem nursing would be a bonding experience for the two of them.

This is where we are right now.. theres no milk but ds is determined.. he ends up getting a tiny little bit out (so I mean I know there is a little milk there but not enough to count lol) and OMG I have to grit my teeth and bear it every time he latches on.. which is still about 8 times a day!! Its driving me crazy! Im determined to make it through though because I do love the idea of tandem nursing and ds isnt ready to give up the boob lol. Hes only 16 months old. He does eat solid food at breakfast, lunch, dinner, and a few snacks a day with my other 2 so I know hes getting what he needs and he is basically just comfort nursing with me but there have been times Ive actually gotten upset and yelled at him for what I thought was biting but was really just an extremely painful nursing session lol. I normally dont yell at the kids and man did I feel like poo after that but I thought I was going to pass out it hurt so bad lol.. my nipples are sensitive anyways

[AnnieMarie]

Hi All,

I just found out we are PG DS#2 (16mos) still nurses a lot and I am hoping to keep this going right through as I really want to tandem nurse - having said that DS is a big nurser and I really doubt he will be ready to give it up any time soon.

Glad to have found all of you here