Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 58

[wombatclay]

mmcannon- glad you found us (and welcome to mdc!)... it could be prolapse. I'm sorry you've seen so many care providers with so little result! I know this thread is a mile long, but I bet if you start reading you'll find a lot of similarities to other moms here. POP is a tough condition to get diagnosed, and you do often get the "it's normal" reaction... yes, some change is normal, but if it's affecting your quality of life then it needs to be addressed!

There are a number of resources out there (The Whole Woman site, books like Beyond Kegels, Ending Female Pain, The CORE Technique, the Tupler Technique, homeopathic and chinese traditional medicine options) and every couple of pages in the thread there is usually a post with lots of links you can check out. And tips on getting a diagnosis (like standing up, getting the exam late in the day, seeing a pelvic floor specialist, etc).

I'm sorry you need this thread, but glad it's here for you! Congrats on your little one and stay positive... there are a lot of options for improving life with POP!

[scottishmommy]

mmcannon- I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. I kept telling my ob that things were not right, and they she kept blowing me off. I finally got the courage to see a urogynecologist, and they figured out that I have a perineocele and a 1st degree cystocele(which the urogyn said is perfectly normal and expected). They also said that my tear from childbirth is a lot worse than the ob realized. They sent me to physical therapy and it has helped a lot. They (the urogyns I see) wrote a book called "Ever Since I Had My Baby". It's great. You should check it out.
I strongly suggest you see a urogyn. It helps so much to have an official diagnosis and then go from there. Now that I know what I have I don't really think about it anymore. You will feel so much better once you have a diagnosis!

[heidirk]

what is a perineocele?


Does anyone else deal with no urge for a BM? It just seems like I never know I have to go until I have painful belly cramps, and then I better go IMMEDIATELY.

If you know what I mean, how do you deal w/it?

[mmcannon]

Resources/Thanks

Wombat Clay & Scottish Mommy-Thanks for the input! I had read something about urogynos, but was unsure what they did, now I will look for one.

I will definitely go through the whole thread and see what I can find. I did briefly look up the wholewoman site, and I am really glad you listed a few other things to look into.

It is really assuring to know that other have had issues getting this diagnosed. I have felt like a crzy person. And it is really un-validating to have to tell your husband, you friends who ask, and you attorney ( bad midwife experience) that doctor #2, #3, then #4 said everything look A-ok.

By the way, has anyone heard if improper suturing can lead to prolapse? Doctor #1 wanted to do a perineal orraphy because he said that the suturing was not done right, didn't hold, and would lead to muscle weakness. He also told me not to do kegels because they would strenthen the muscles in the wrong direction.
I know when he examined me, I already had the visible symptoms I do now, and he never said anything about prolapse...

[leoheart]

There is also a forum at www.prolapsehealth.com. They answer questions about physio/surgery/natural options and are not particularly slanted in any one direction (although they definitely recognize the current limitations of surgical options).

Not as great as this forum but another resource for information.

[mmcannon]

A few more Q's

I haven't had a chance to read the thread, so if these are answered elsewhere, sorry..

Has anyone had any experience with the relationship between pushing before the urge to push and prolapse, I saw that on the link just posted by leohart...thank you.

Also, what about coccyx/tailbone misalignment. My tailbone has been stuck inward since before birth (of my baby), I wonder if it didn't have something to to with my difficult labor/no urge to push, etc. I should have had it fixed first, but my midwives advised me otherwise.

I have read elsewhere that if the coccyx/tailbone is not properly aligned various muscle weaknesses can result, including pelvic floor, and that it is very diffcult to deliver vaginally in this condition. Duh.

Thanks!

[leoheart]

Yes, I saw a physio/osteopath last year who specialized in this kind of thing (internal myofascial release etc). I have had alignment issues for years that have been exacerbated by pregnancies and deliveries. Now I'm trying to work on my alignment problems with pilates and physio. It's so much work to try and correct all these problems after the fact, I wish there were more info/support (including financial) for preventative healthcare.

[mmcannon]

Leohart:
Exactly. I have seen a PT who specializes in myofascial for the pelvic floor. She took a model of a pelvic girdle and showed me what my coccyx was doing (tilted in), and she could tell all of my muscles are internally pulling to one side, which my tailbone is also doing. She is a five-hour drive away, and has recommended a week of intensive treatment since I can't come in weekly for a few months. It is just finding the time. She didn't recognize the prolapse, but did her initial treatment while I was lying down, so it may all be organizing internally differently when not subject to gravity. Now all I need is the time to do it.
So I need to have it adjusted and very few only grandfathered chiropractors are allowed to internally adjust, so mine is going to try an external adjustment first. She is worried about scratching me when she moves the tailbne, and I recently read the internal adjustment, at least, can perforate the rectum if not done correctly. Yea. So what to do first? tailbone adjustment? internal myofascial? I haven't gotten back to working out since the birth because anything more than a 20 minute walk makes me feel heavy, like my insides were coming out...Somehow leading me to googling and figuring I probably have the prolapse.

So the whole thing feels very disjointed. Could I get these "experts" all in the same room to share their knowledge on the subject? Chiropractor, OB/GyN, Midwife, PT...It feels like they have a critical but incomplete view of the issue.
And it is true what you say about prevention. If I had any clue that this was even a possibility I would have definitely worked on this aspect or done what I could to prevent it.

[scottishmommy]

HUGS mmcannon! It's really frustrating. I think one of the big reasons prolapses go undiagnosed is because OBGYNS don't recognize first and second degree prolapses as abnormal. So, unless you have a really big rectocele or cystocele, or your uterus is protruding they don't diagnose prolapse. A recent study shows that 90% of women have a postpartum prolapse, so it could just be that drs see them all the time and think that's what a normal mommy vagina looks like. Take heart! You are not crazy!

[mmcannon]

Thank you, Scottishmommy, I needed a hug! I emailed the PT I had visited earlier in the year and she told me that the pelvic therapy (internal and myofascial) would help both the coccyx alignment issue and the prolapse.

Now I just need to find a doctor who can diagnose it. No urogynecologists in my area. Nearest maybe 2 hour drive. It would be nice to have a database of good doctors/midwives.

Am reading through the thread as I have time. Very helpful and I am jotting down things I need to look into, for example sepia. I have an issue with wanting this fixed NOW, and with work and baby, and not having a money tree in our yard, it takes patience.

I did do the 40 days of rest after baby's birth. But the swollen, heavy sensation was noticable immediately. I was afraid to look for over a month. Terrible, isn't it? I did no walking/stretch/exerices, very little housework.

I had no urge to push, so midwives had me push through contractions once I was at 10cm. Sometimes it just happens, I guess, But it does seem like if we had the right information at the right time, we could prevent it.

Hope everyone is well. I am so grateful for the conversation.

[snoopy5386]

nak...I've been wading my way through this thread....i'm 2 weeks pp and pretty sure i've got a prolapse. Day 2 pp I noticed a large piece of flesh hanging out of my vagina while on the toilet. It hasn't gone away since. It is there just about every time I use the bathroom and most of the time when I am standing too. It is ciming out from the front so either a uterine or bladder prolapse. Looking at it in the mirror it has this gross white little nodule on it?? I've also got the heaviness feeling and feeling like my insides are falling out when I pick anything up including my baby :-( Whatever it is it is pressing on my right side more and is causing me a lot of pain and achiness especially at the end of the day. It hurts quite a bit when I stand for more than 5 or 10 mins at a time. My question is, should I bother going back to the midwife for this now or just wait til my 6 week appt? Any advantages to going now?

[scottishmommy]

Snoopy- It sounds like a uterine prolapse, BUT don't freak out! I had a uterine prolapse after I gave birth and it totally went away. Try spending a lot of time on your hands and knees. It takes a loooong time to heal from childbirth. Take heart! Two weeks pp is nothing.

[wombatclay]

congrats on the new babe! I agree that a LOT can be done to heal when you're just a few weeks pp (and post-prolapse). Since you have a pretty visible problem, do see your care provider and have an exam while standing just to confirm the situation.

My first post-prolapse babe arrived August 22 2009 so check my posts in this thread from just after that time... I list the things I was doing to hopefully reverse/modify the prolapse. Staying off your feet, hands and knees with bum up (child's pose), very limited lifting... stuff like that, but also homeopathic remedies and exercises. Hang in there!

[exactlywatt]

Hello,
I like som many others am so thankful to have stumbled across this thred. I am 5 weeks PP with my third child. At 34 years old it sucks to be dealing with this. I have a PP visit pending but am certain I have the trifecta of prolapase! Although I'm not having any symptoms other than an occassional feeling of a slipping tampon this is somewhat devestating. I have purchased both the Mummy Tummy and Whole Woman workouts but between new monkey and 3 and 6 year olds I haven't found the time to finish either of them. I did read the Whole Woman book and get the jist of where she's coming from. With no disrespect intended and complete acknowledgement of how whiny this sounds, I am having a hard time being grouped into a condition with a bunch of middle aged women. I am young an vibrant. I want to be jumping on trampolines with the kiddos and having a great sex. I am so scared that those days are over and feel like less of a woman right now. my self esteem is taking a particularly hard beating as of late. I want to work out but am reluctant to do anything for fear of my lady parts flying out of me. This just isn't fun!

Do organs truly realign and go back to where they're supposed to be or is this something we learn to live with an hope doesn't get worse? I am all for agressive, timely, evidence-based, non-surgical treatment. I have done my utmost to take my time during these initial 6 weeks postpartum but worry that the longer I wait the less bounce back there will be. The women in my family live a long time. Both my grandmothers wear diapers to bed. I can't imagine having to do that in 50 years or sooner.

[quantumleap]

exactlywatt - you're still early in the whole journey, and I swear that the simple fact of posting on here pretty much guarantees that you'll get to a point where you are both improved and satisfied with things (unless you're me!). Hang in there.

Whatever happens, you will learn to cope a little better. I hear you on the feeling handicapped issue, because that is my primary complaint. I have, by now, gotten used to the physical issues, but I am still beyond angry when I feel like I have to stop halfway through a hike I used to breeze through, or when I feel I can't wear my toddler, or when everyone is jumping on the trampoline, or when I realize that there is no way I will return to full participation in my dance company, or, or, or.

I've pretty much decided that I will attempt surgery. It has a really high fail rate for young women with severe prolapse, and you only get about 10 years out of a surgery, but I'm at a point where it's worth a try. So, I guess, even when you're feeling like there aren't any options, there can be. Sometimes they're crappy, but you deal with what you've got and hope for the best.

I've been getting regular chiropractic adjustments as one of the attacks on pop. There's limited research on it, but it makes sense to me that making sure the structure is properly lined up is going to be helpful as you attempt to rebuild the support system within the structure (muscles, ligaments, fascia, etc). It's not often mentioned on here, so I thought I'd throw it out there. I think it's pretty important no matter what the state of your pelvic floor in the early post partum period, as everything attempts to resettle after fairly important skeletal changes.

[scottishmommy]

Exactlywatt- You are not disabled! I felt that way too. It sucked. In fact, back when I discovered my pop I was so devastated I went to therapy. It was really hard. Now my pop is annoying, not devastating, or particularly life altering. Over the last year I've realized that it probably wont get worse and that it comes and goes. I've discovered what aggravates it and what helps. For the most part though everything stays pretty much the same. I would take it easy for a while and then forget about it and get on with your life. I promise you that this happens to pretty much everyone who has had a baby. You are not alone! And you can have great sex!

[exactlywatt]

selkat and scottishmommy: thank you for the kind words and support. Logically I know I'm not disabled, psychologically this is just so much more engrossing than I thought it could be. It's hard right now to know physically what I can or should be doing. Will a long hike make things worse? Camping? Jogging? Jumping around? etc... I guess I just need to start slow and work my way to where I'm comfortable. I gained so much weight with this pregnancy, which I found hilarious while pregnant. Not so much now! I know just losing the weight will have a positive impact on things by decreasing intraabdominal pressure, but I'm scared to exercise. My big fear is that I will do something that makes the pop irreversibly much worse. While I can see living with thiings the way they are now, the thought of having organs protruding out of my body or being unable to control bladder/bowel function is super scary right now. And I just just graduated with my BSN in December with only desire to work in womens health and become CNM so I should really know better. lol

[leoheart]

exactlywatt, I'm sorry this has happened - when I first realized what was happening I was devastated and cried a lot, and I wasn't even suffering pp hormones! Now, after 6 months and finding this thread and seeing a physiotherapist I don't think about it nearly as much, and when I do I feel like I can manage it well. The symptoms will most likely improve for you, and your psychological state will also improve. You will gradually be able to do more and adjust what you do to manage your symptoms better. Life isn't over!! Fear makes everything seem worse than it is, and as you learn more about how your body manages this you will feel more in control.
Re: exercise, I was told that once I felt symptom-free I could start a run/walk program, but to avoid high-impact exercise until then. I was also told to support my pelvic floor by contracting and holding (strong kegel) through any potentially harmful actions - like lifting children, squatting etc. Also to practice kegels daily (I think I posted about that earlier on this page) and make them part of daily activities. Kegels don't repair stretched fascia, but do strengthen the muscles that support those organs normally held in place by strong fascia. I have had a great reduction in symptoms since first joining this thread, and hopefully will continue to improve. I now have whole days where I don't even think about it, and I'm sure you will get there too! I notice that many women who have posted on here stop coming back - I figure this is because they have improved to the point that they no longer need support, and that's really encouraging!
Getting a referral to a specialist may help you determine the best way to prevent your symptoms from getting worse, as you fear.

[MiaMama]

I think I need to join here. I have read through the first 30 pages so far! My goodness, maybe we need our own sub-forum..

My 2nd child was born Mar 19, so we are 7 weeks postpartum. However, I nioticed my prolapse issues when I was pregnant with her and I think they are from DD1's birth. I had been getting very constipated, and I described it to my husband "its as iff the lower part of my colon is stretched out and is making poos too big to fit through my rectum." Then, as I checked my own cervix during the last month of the preg, I kept having to reach around a large bulge, and if I pushed on it a bit, it made me pee. I had no idea what that meant.

Luckily, DD2 was born on my hands and knees, no directed pushing, and pushing took abiout 20-25 min. However, I did get pit after the placenta took over an hour, and rx'd traction. I was left with a large (13x5 in) piece of retained membranes that passed a full 7 days later and wrecked me for that first week.

I had a relatively easy pushing stage with DD1 3.5 years ago, and she was an IUGR baby, so only 4lbs 13oz full term, but she was -2 station when we were induced, and still -2 station 3 hours before she was born. I think the induction, and no time for the tissues to stretch slowly caused the problem, but I have no idea. I was 23 when DD1 was born, 26 when DD2 was born, no episiotomy or even perineal tear with either, relatively small babies (4lb 13 oz and 7lb 2 oz) so I am baffled as to why this has happened.

I wouldn't care about this, except it seems to be causing me pain. It feels like something inside me from deep in my belly to right near the top of my labia is stretching, causing discomfort and pain, especially if I walk or lift too much. I also have severe pain in my perineum when I have gas, and I think it is from the rectocele.

Does anyone else experience pain or bizarre sensations?

Thank you all for this wonderful resource.

[querico]

Hello to All,
I was one of the early posters in this thread when it was born. It is nice to see that so many of us have found community here, given a situation that leaves us all feeling down and isolated at times. I truly think the pelvic floor problems are underdiagnosed.

my quick update, i am almost 3 years out from my VBAC. after my long labor and delivery I was left with a grade 3 cystocele and later developed rectocele.
I can relate to so many of you, the feelings of anger, wanting to jump on a trampoline with the kids but needing to take it easy, concerns about my sex life etc.

On the whole, things are much better. 90% better than where i was 4 wks post partum, when i felt i would never be able to run or jump or carry a child again. That is amazing!
I do still have symptoms, and am coming to accept that that is just my lot in life. As another poster said, it is more of an annoyance than an obstacle at this juncture.
I run, jump, go sledding with my kids, all things I thought I could never do again.

My main symptoms relate to rectocele and constipation and the need to splint - i hate that.. but if i stay on top of the fiber I can avoid it.
my cystocele is virtually unnoticeable though! my frequency of urination gone.
My improvement, I'd say, is due to the combination of time, healing and some focused yoga and pilates.

I did go for surgical consults regarding rectocele at one point, but am avoiding it due to the risks. Also, i feel that if I am fine 80-90% of the time, it's hard to justify surgery. If things worsen later in life, I would reconsider and hope that outcomes will improve by then.
If anyone has had a rectocele repair, I would love to hear from you.
Also, I want to say this is the best forum, as everyone is open to the whole spectrum of treatment from herbal to surgical. I appreciate this very much, as other sites seem to not give you the option to express all viewpoints comfortable.
To pelvic floor power!