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Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 61

post #1201 of 1498
I don't have much time right now, so I'll keep this short. Are you under the care of a chiropractor? With all your sacrum issues I would give that a shot. I have been seeing the again and it has helped so much. That horrible urgency with BMs has pretty much gone away. If your sacrum is out of balance it puts a huge amount of pressure on the nerves of your pelvic floor. Also, try not to feel guilty about your incident with the heavy lifting. I suspect you already had issues with a rectocele and that straining made it suddenly more prominent, but it didn't *cause* it or make it permanenty worse. Sort of like working an old injury and having it flare up.
post #1202 of 1498
Thanks Scottishmommy. I haven't seen a chiropractor. I have been to an osteopath twice but not a chiro. I will take your advice I think and look for one. Do you think I need to find a postnatal specialist? I have never had chiro before. I really appreciate your advice.
post #1203 of 1498
I would look for a chiro who does Webster Technique. Not that you need Webster now, but at least you know that that chiro is an expert in pregnant women, and therefore has patients who are postpartum. I really think that your sacrum should be adjusted. I bet it would help a lot.
post #1204 of 1498
New here.. I am hoping you can help me?
After giving birth to my baby boy Kian Adley (my 11th baby! ) at home UC I wasn't able to hold my urine very well. It would only be an issue when I was right near the toilet and then try as I might to close off the flow of urine it would come out anyway so I would quickly sit down on the toilet. Over time those muscles have gotten stronger and now its no longer a problem.

Well, recently I have felt something at my vaginal opening when using the restroom that felt like muscle; like the inside of the vaginal wall feels so tonight I looked and was shocked to see what looks like the vaginal wall or muscle at the opening of my vagina.. I showed my dh who said it looked a little different. but not alot as he thinks I have had it to some degree since after childbirth in Oct. 2007. I don't make a habit of looking down below too often etc..so maybe it was there to some degree before but it is enough that I noticed it this time.

I believe it to be a weakening of the vaginal wall letting some of the vaginal muscles protrude out of the opening or right at it. I can have sex without pain and I can manually push it back in without pain. My cervix is not protruding from my vagina and I don't believe it to be my uterus. It's about a month now postpartum. (After researching I am sure it's cystocele)

I have noticed differences since giving birth to Kian from his size..11lbs 3oz. And I can tell my vaginal muscles are very weak. My dh can also as the only time we have been together since the birth recently I asked and he said he can barely feel when I am doing kegals and tightening as hard as I can. The Kegals are much easier when we're not having sex though..

Anyway, I did read that doing lots of kegals can strengthen my vagina and help heal this and I suppose time will also. I am still healing and after having such a big baby I know it will take more time, etc..

I know that some of you have dealt with prolapses and wondered if you had any help you could offer me such as what I can do and if kegals will help and does it get better with time and when I am done with nursing my baby?

I do not want to get surgery and don't want to go in if I can help it...hoping I can deal with this naturally..

Thank you for your help!!
post #1205 of 1498
It sounds like you may have a "relaxed vaginal outlet". Honestly, if you aren't experiencing symptoms, I wouldn't give it much thought. How old is your baby? (congrats btw). The studies I've read on prolapses show that they are very common. If you really want to be proactive about it, try to get a referral for a physical therapist. She can determine if you are doing your kegels correctly and give you other exercises as well.
post #1206 of 1498
Congrats on your babe!

Prolapse is generally seen as a "quality of life" concern... if you are not uncomfortable and not having difficulties due to this then you're ahead of the game! You can explore the wellness ideas in this thread (Whole Woman, Tupler Technique, Ending Female Pain, physical therapy, herbal or homeopathic treatments, etc) but these generally don't "cure" POP, they just help you reach a place where the POP doesn't impact quality of life as much.

(also, POP does tend to worsen with repeat pregnancies and most surgeons wont operate to correct POP until you are "done" having children. This may not fit into your philosophy but is worth considering as you explore options or speak with medical professionals)
post #1207 of 1498
eclipse -

Just wanted to know how you're doing with your rectocele? Did you get in to see your gyn yet? How much fiber are you getting?

To all -

I am backed up right now and have started stool softeners. I am supposed to see my gyno in a week. I am tracking how much fiber I'm getting every day (close to 30 grams today). I am kind of (haha, how am I kidding) freaking out. It seems like a severe prolapse to me in that the bulge seems to be long (felt through vaginal wall), although, based on some of the pictures on line, it could be much worse (totally outside my body).

Anyone on this thread have rectocele surgery? I mean, how long can you live with rectocele without doing something about it?? Splinting doesn't do it for me. I'm in a down cycle now with the constitpation, so I'm just wondering...can I get myself halfway regular again? I don't start PT for this (cystocele/rectocele) for a month. I need hugs and some reassuring words. Please don't freak me out too much - believe me, I've read all the horror stories of bad rectocele repair surgeries online (damn you, Google) - I want honest feedback, but feel free to sugar-coat it. hahahaha
post #1208 of 1498
I don't have surgical experience (though my 4th degree tear/repair comes close since my whole chassis was rebuilt )...

My only thought is to make sure you're getting enough water. Fiber will bind you up if there isn't enough fluid so the more fiber you take in, the more water you need! My dd2 has chronic, sever constipation and I remember being shocked at how much "more" fluid was supposed to go along with treatment.

Have you tried Maya Massage? Mothering Mag had a diy article on it a while ago, but there are massage therapists who use this style and it's supposed to help re-align pelvic organs. It helped with my bladder prolapse so maybe it would work for intestines too? It's certainly going to be less painful than surgical recovery, so it might be worth a shot!
post #1209 of 1498
Hi ladies! It's been a long time since I've been on here - about 3.5 years ago when I had DS and had a mild uterine prolapse (which I still have but have been seeing someone for Maya Massage treatments that seem to be helping).

DH and I are going to start trying to get pregnant again in a few months and I wanted to ask all you wise mamas what things I should be doing in preparation for being pregnant and birthing again with a prolapse. I've heard that prolapse isn't a big issue during pregnancy because the uterus pulls up into the body more (after the second trimester), but I'm wondering if I should be working on really strengthening my pelvic floor muscles (is there any point if they're just gonna get blown out again??!)

Just wondering what precautions I should take and also what your experiences were with the second pregnancy/birth after already having a prolapse.

post #1210 of 1498
Also, a friend of mine who's a doula gave me this link - REALLY interesting info about kegels. Personally, every time I do them, they make my prolapse feel worse, so it was nice to read that I wasn't crazy (or necessarily doing them wrong)...

post #1211 of 1498
What herbs and homeopathic remedies would you all recommend for treating cystocele?
post #1212 of 1498
Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post
Also, a friend of mine who's a doula gave me this link - REALLY interesting info about kegels. Personally, every time I do them, they make my prolapse feel worse, so it was nice to read that I wasn't crazy (or necessarily doing them wrong)...

The problem here is the lack of scientific research or proof for the theory. I am all about the science and would like to see *proof* for something that has tons of research behind it supporting the opposite, kwim? And even other people who say kegeling is not enough stress that kegels done properly do help-biofeedback is best. Especially for sexual function. You can't blame kegels. The same general method has been done before they had the name in many societies that anti-kegel people claim were only helped by squatting. I personally squat a lot out of habit, though it kills my bad knees. Still have a prolapse. But since doing kegels with something that provides feedback (Lelo balls and just bought a kegelmaster), I haven't had one single incident of peeing my pants. The biggest problem is people thinking they're kegeling but doing it completely wrong.
post #1213 of 1498
Hi. I'm new here...

I've been searching around on the internet for any information regarding POP, and I stumbled upon this site. I'm grateful for all of the women who have been through this and are willing to share their experiences.
After being completely horrified to feel that something was falling down into my vagina, I went to the gynecologist to find out what the heck was going on. She was not helpful at all. She didn't give me any real information. Is it a cystocele? A rectocele? Has my uterus fallen? She just said that everything seems "real loose" in there, and I will need surgery. She said they will remove my uterus and shore up my vaginal walls with a mesh material. Remove my uterus? Why? She says, "Well, you don't need it anymore, honey." (I'm 51 years old.) This doesn't sound right to me, so I am going to have to figure out for myself what to do. Anyone know of a doctor and/or PT in the SF Bay Area who specializes in POP?
post #1214 of 1498
Run away from that doctor! She sounds really uninformed. You need to see a urogynecologist, a doctor who specializes in POP. From what you describe, it sounds like you may have a prolapsed uterus. Don't worry, you aren't broken, and you don't need a hysterectomy! Most likely all your friends who've had babies (and many who haven't) have the same problem. In fact, just today at work I was talking about POP and all the women opened up about it. It really happens to almost everyone, it's just not talked about. There are many treatment options out there. Surgery is always an option, but it doesn't sound like you want that. You can ask about a pessary, which is a device you wear that holds up your uterus. I find that sea sponges are great as a pessary. I use "cosmetic" sponges and cut them down to the size of a large tampon. They keep everything in its place. I also get alot from physical therapy and chiropractic work. Both have worked wonders for me.
Just an FYI, but beware of doing a lot of googling. A lot of information out there seems very grim. The truth is that there are so many degrees of POP, it's almost impossible to generalize in a medical journal. I like to compare POP to a deviated septum. Most people have one and don't even know it, but some people are really bothered by it and choose to have nasal surgery. You need to decide how much this is actually bothering you and go from there. For me at least, once I got a real diagnosis it helped alot. Good luck!
post #1215 of 1498
welcome to all the new ladies and congrats on your bubs!

update for me, I had been using the pelvic floor "stimz" strengthener for about 4 weeks and noticed a huge improvement in the muscle strength but then last week i got a cold and cough and have been coughing and sneezing for a full week now and my pelvic floor muscles are weak as anything again grrr.. even my cystocele seems to have travelled down a bit more. damn coughing.. I coughed while i had the stimz probe in and it came flying out!

so discouraging to know that a simple thing like a cold can ruin all your hard work

I know i just gotta start again now..
post #1216 of 1498
Jules - that is disappointing, but take heart - in less than 4 weeks you can be back where you were - that's encouraging!

It's tough dealing with a chronic condition like this - I wish there were more support IRL. Glad this thread exists, though.
post #1217 of 1498
I am hoping for some advice from you very wise women. I had a baby just over two years ago (my second, she was a 42week HBAC weighing 8lbs). At the very end when she was crowning, just after half of her head came out, she flexed her body, pulling her head back and this caused her to reflexively take a breath. But because her mouth was not out yet, she was unable to breath. Her body jerked inside and the midwife knew this was wrong so she pulled her out. I am not sure if it was with a contraction or not but the "aftermath" makes me think that she pulled her out between contractions, working against what my body was doing. It's all such a blur. Anyway, after the birth my dd was not breathing properly bc she was in shock from attemting to take a breath but not able to get air. We transferred to the hospital. Everything turned out fine (she regulated her own breathing after 1 hr with no intervention) but about 4 hours later the staff at the hospital checked me and discovered a second degree tear. They said that I tore at the vaginal opening and then just up inside the vagina toward the back of my vaginal wall. They stitched the area but the top two stitches at my vaginal opening did not stay. I have a rather obvious gap of about an inch where it looks like the bottom of a circle (the vaginal opening) now has a v at the bottom. I saw my gyn for my annual and he told me that he could repair the gaping at the opening. And, I didn't mention that I also have what I have diagnosed as a rectocele. I think it's looks worse than it actually is since more of the back of my vaginal wall shows anyway due to the gaping. I asked the doctor if closing the gap would afford more support for the rectocele and he said no, that it would affect/improve it at all. He said the rectocele was caused by ripped or stretched facia in that area and that he could sew/repair the facia and that would improve the rectocele. I am scheduled next week for both surgeries. I was not going to deal with the rectocele since it doesn't really bother me enough to warrant surgery. I do have some issues (needed to modify my position to evacuate) if I'm constipated. If not, and I've been very good about it, I have no issues. Sometimes I do feel a bulge at the opening of my vagina but it's minor and only intermittent.

So, of course, I googled rectocele repair and was frightened by how many people said they were worse after the surgery. It makes me question whether or not I want to do it but I'm not sure if ripped/torn facia is the same as a "normal" rectocele. I guess I have to ask him that at my pre-op. As far as the repair at the vaginal opening, I do really want to have that repaired because (1) it looks weird (totally vain, I know) and (2) I cannot have sex from behind anymore because of the friction on that part of my vagina. The skin is thin and fragile there so I have pain for days after sex unless we have sex from the front, so to speak. It's not the end of the world to limit sexual positions but if it's something that can be fixed, why not? And if he's already in there and I'm already under, why not do the rectocele repair if it would improve me? I am terrified that I would end up worse though.

So I guess my question to all of you is, why not? Has anyone had a perineal repair like this? I was told that they recut the skin around the tear and then restitch it. It is supposed to thicken up the skin and make it more durable. And in terms of the rectocele, does what I described sound like a typical rectocele? I'm not sure EXACTLY what a rectocele repair is. Do they close a gap in the vaginal wall or otherwise adjust the bowel?

I thought I should add that I have done chiro but am not being treated currently. I also purchased the DVD from Aligned and Well called "Down There" for Women by Katy Bowman. I have not watched it. Where's the embarrassed smilie?

Thank you for your advice.
post #1218 of 1498
Hey Spencersmom- honestly, I wouldn't have surgery for something that isn't causing me any trouble. It just doesn't seem logical. Your torn fascia is completely within the realm of normal, especially after a traumatic birth. Minor rectoceles are annoying at times, but the surgery could permanently alter your anatomy for the worse.As for the perineoplasty it may be worth it. I don't know enough about it to comment except that I would have a highly skilled urogynecologist perform the surgery, not a regular obgyn. Good luck! This must be a hard decision.

ps thanks for the video-just watched some on youtube. It looks really promising.
post #1219 of 1498
Hi Robynfrog, I would have to say your instinct sounds right on here. The uterus not only helps to support other pelvic organs (providing it is not prolapsed itself), it provides hormonal support - even in menopause. I would avoid losing it if at all possible. I have a friend who was dx'd with uterine cancer, and she fought to keep her uterus and opt for other treatments. She is doing great now, but she did a lot of research on the hysterectomy issue, and I have to think if a woman with cancer in her uterus would still opt to keep it, that is a compelling argument. I don't know of any drs in your area, but I think researching this before taking a dr's word is a good start.
post #1220 of 1498
Heyla! Welcome all, though as ever... I'm sorry you need the info here.

I'd suggest avoiding surgery for anything that isn't causing a true "quality of life" problem. Every surgery carries a certain amount of risk (both in the surgery and in the healing)... nerve damage, infection, granulated scar tissue, etc. In some cases these risks outweigh the benefits while in other cases the benefits offered by the surgery clearly outweigh the risks. Surgical options for POP repair are undergoing a slow but sure revolution these days as more women ask for better surgical options and 'classic" surgical techniques are abandoned as complications are revealed (surgery used to be an "end of life" option so there wasn't a lot of info on what happens to a bladder sling over 20-30 years... turns out, it's not good ). So.... while I'd be interested in surgery 'some day' I wouldn't have anything done now unless the POP was causing serious quality of life problems and I'd exhausted the alternatives.

I'd suggest the book Ending Female Pain (for all sorts of pain, including intimate moments) and the Tupler Technique for "at home" core support. Maya Massage and/or PT might help too (Mothering had an article on maya massage or just google it).

Hang in there and uplifting vibes to all!
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