Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 63

[scottishmommy]

Also, the reason your health care provider told you to see a specialist, is because she had no idea what she's looking for. It's not because you are an extreme case, it's because she lacks the education to properly diagnose prolapse. If she poked around her own vagina she would probably feel some bulges too!

[happy2bamama]

From what I know (I have/had a 1st degree uterine prolapse), 2 inches is a TON of space! I don't even think I have two inches!! Like the PP said, it sounds like what you're experiencing is totally normal with birthing. My prolapse was its worst definitely the first months post-partum, but I could still feel it for the next year and a half or so, in that stage when you're still carrying a baby a lot and lugging car seats etc. I have been seeing a Maya Massage practicioner and have had AMAZING results. I don't feel my prolapse at all anymore. But, I also am careful - whenever I blow my nose or sneeze, I kegel and also contract my abs (pull them in) to help everything stay in place. And if I get a cold and am coughing and blowing my nose a lot, I feel the prolapse a bit. That's the thing - life will never be the same again in regards to the pelvic floor, but like a PP said, if its not limiting your daily activities, it's all normal. Also, I do notice that when I'm on my period I feel the prolapse a bit more - like it's heavier down there, but nothing limiting. And about kegeling - I actually found that it made my prolapse feel worse and I know I was doing them right because I had a PT check me while doing them, so I don't know what to say about that. But something I did start doing that immediately made a difference (which is the same as kegeling, I think, so it doesn't totally make sense why this worked, but kegeling didn't) is when I'm going pee, I try to stop the flow and hold for three seconds, then let it go for three seconds, then hold it, etc. At first, my muscles were shaky and pee would still come out, but in a short time - like days - I could stop it completely with no shaking. And it was after I started doing this that I stopped feeling the prolapse all together. Hope that helps!

[Oooohwhatifithurts]

Scottishmummy and Happytobeamama, I could kiss you! Honestly, your posts brought a tear of relief to my eyes when I read them. It has been so hard to find specific information on the internet about what is normal, I just keep reading the worst case scenarios and terrifying myself.

I know that you ladies have suffered and you must think I'm a real eejit for panicking like this when, as you say, it doesn't trouble me on a day-to-day basis. I'm ever so grateful! And I'm glad you've had some relief with the Mayan massage.

I have been kegeling like crazy and, as you experienced, Happytobeamama, in a couple of days I am in complete control of my stream - but am now aching a bit down there which I guess is to be expected as a consequence of exercising any muscle.

Thanks again ladies.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by Oooohwhatifithurts

Scottishmummy and Happytobeamama, I could kiss you! Honestly, your posts brought a tear of relief to my eyes when I read them. It has been so hard to find specific information on the internet about what is normal, I just keep reading the worst case scenarios and terrifying myself.

I know that you ladies have suffered and you must think I'm a real eejit for panicking like this when, as you say, it doesn't trouble me on a day-to-day basis. I'm ever so grateful! And I'm glad you've had some relief with the Mayan massage.

I have been kegeling like crazy and, as you experienced, Happytobeamama, in a couple of days I am in complete control of my stream - but am now aching a bit down there which I guess is to be expected as a consequence of exercising any muscle.

Thanks again ladies.

Don't worry, I don't think you're an eejit for panicking - I did the same thing. I like to be in um... control of my body, so I spent a long time trying to "fix" this before I realized that it wasn't a big deal and that it wasn't really impeding my life. It was just one of those things that wasn't ever going to be the same (can you say post-nursing boobs??!) And if it makes you feel any better too, I just had an annual exam with a midwife and I asked her, "Does it seem bad to you?" and she said no. She said that yes, my cervix was low, but not alarmingly. You know, some people have low ones, some people have high ones. Then I asked her if she thought it would be safe for me to get pregnant again with my prolapse in this condition and she looked at me like I was sort of crazy! She was like, "Of course it is!"

Yeah, I felt that aching too when I did kegel activity, mostly in the year within my son's birth. But now that I'm further out (he's 3.5 years old), I don't feel the ache as much.

Glad this helps - hang in there (no pun intended)!

P.S. I highly recommend Maya Massage (abdominal massage). My practitioner could feel where my uterus was and which way it was tilted. And then she could feel the progress we made. It was really beneficial.

[Jules112]

I have a question, im sure theres things about it somewhere in this topic I just dont have much time to sift through at the moment.

Anyone have experences with having a pessery fitted? I have been told they can support the uterus into its normal position and that they stay in for 3-9 months and you can have intercourse with them in...

[heidirk]

Sometimes my rectocele causes those types of problems.

Def mention that at your visit.

[bluebirdiemama]

hi ladies, this is my first time here. I just read through a few pages of posts and I am already encouraged. I have been on the verge of freaking out for the past two days... Monday my husband and I took our kids out for pizza and saw a woman about 8-9 months along, and decided it was time to get pregnant with our third baby. Later that night in the shower I washed my self and was completely thrown into shock to feel what was going on down there! I was told after my 1st baby that my uterus was lying low, but she didn't say anything more. Nothing of what I should really do about it, or what could happen if it progressed. Now my 2nd baby is a year and a half, and while I knew my uterus was low, it seems like overnight that it just fell into my vagina. The past two days I have had the feeling of a tampon that is falling out.
I am relieved to read in PP that your organs move around. Which, I guess makes sense, but in my panic I wasn't really thinking that they would migrate back up, against gravity.

Anyways, I guess I am really just introducing my self. I have so many questions. I am determined to do what I can to get my body back, and hopefully have another baby...

I guess the only question I have right now is, how much has it helped you to have a gynocologist through this? My family doesn't have insurance, or the money to spend trying to find the "right" doc, one that will help me work through it to see health, instead of pushing for surgery or other things.
I am only 25, and kinda hoping that this is something that can be reversed with kegels and other excercises...

[xelakann]

Hi I am back, I was first here when my son was born and my cervix tore and prolapsed right after birth. It healed and I had no problems. Now 11 month pp after my second was born my cervix has completely prolasped and was out of my vagina. I went to the ER last night because I didn't know it was my cervix or bladder and I was in major pain. The ER doc put it back in place and told me to see my OB... then today it prolapsed again. I am hoping I get in asap. Just reading through things and getting caught up.

I did do Mayan massage during my pg so I will try it again with this. I read that some did acupuncture... how does that help? I'm a big acupuncture fan.

[wombatclay]

Welcome BlueBirdMama! (though I wish you didn't need this thread! )

I didn't find the Gyn helpful after the initial diagnosis... I think a good physical therapist would be the best place for any loose change, perhaps followed by a chiropractor/maya massage therapist/Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner depending on finances, availability, and personal preference. However, having a good diagnosis and perhaps a fitting for a pessary can help a lot! It seems like many Gyns don't offer this sort of service (or rather, it's offered but not something they do well) so many women end up seeing a specialsit after having mixed success with their Gyn.

That said... there is a lot that you can do on your own! Prolapse is a quality of life condition so you're the only one who can say "how bad" it is or "how good" a treatment is. Books like Ending Female Pain or the Tupler Technique, exercise programs like Whole Woman or belly dance, herbal therapies like RRL tea (as a uterine tonic) or homeopathics, DIY mayan massage (there was a Mothering article and professional treatment usually includes DIY instruction), using sea sponge as a gentle pessary (warning, I found these to be insanely painful but ymmv)... these are all things you can explore on your own with little money. The goal of any POP treatment is to reduce symptoms and you may find that one or more of these will do the trick.

xelakann- ouch! Can you push it back yourself until you get in to see the dr? You might consider a pessary... the mayan massage should help, but if you're at such an advanced stage of POP and in pain too boot maybe PT and a pessary are necessary?

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by wombatclay

xelakann- ouch! Can you push it back yourself until you get in to see the dr? You might consider a pessary... the mayan massage should help, but if you're at such an advanced stage of POP and in pain too boot maybe PT and a pessary are necessary?

I am wondering if it is too late for that too. I've been up since 4:30 am because of the pain

I am waiting until 8 am (PST) to call a urogynocologist in my area. I will also call my regular doctor (who happens to be an OB too) but I really don't want to mess around. I have a two year and an 11 month old and no time to deal with this pain... and well you know my cervix is hanging out of my vagina

[pwit]

POP and Urine Retention- any suggestions or thoughts

I was dx grade two cystocele and rectocele. I think the cystocele is actually worse though. Only have 3 problems from it. . .

A LITTLE more trouble having bowel movements - thats no big deal its just encouraging me to eat healthier with more fiber and an excuse to have a morning cup of coffee which helps a lot.

Can't run or do anything high impact without peeing my pants- annoying but I can live with that.

Feels like I'm RETAINING URINE! This is starting to get to me. Sometimes I have the urge and then really only pee a small amount. I'm pretty sure my bladder is not empty its just I can't empty it. Seems like this happens more often in the evening when I'm guessing my prolapse is worse. Since the prolapse started I've noticed most the time when I pee after I stand up I feel like a few dribbles decided to dribble out. I'm not sure if thats related to the urine retention or not.

I set up an appt. with my mainstream doctor to get my vit D levels checked and discuss this with him. Should I ask him if he can refer me to a urologist? I saw a gynecologist who just recommended surgery and taking out my uterus while they were at it. I am starting to wonder if estrogen treatment would help. I'm nursing a 7 month old too though so maybe I need to hold off on that.

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by pwit

POP and Urine Retention- any suggestions or thoughts

I was dx grade two cystocele and rectocele. I think the cystocele is actually worse though. Only have 3 problems from it. . .

A LITTLE more trouble having bowel movements - thats no big deal its just encouraging me to eat healthier with more fiber and an excuse to have a morning cup of coffee which helps a lot.

Can't run or do anything high impact without peeing my pants- annoying but I can live with that.

Feels like I'm RETAINING URINE! This is starting to get to me. Sometimes I have the urge and then really only pee a small amount. I'm pretty sure my bladder is not empty its just I can't empty it. Seems like this happens more often in the evening when I'm guessing my prolapse is worse. Since the prolapse started I've noticed most the time when I pee after I stand up I feel like a few dribbles decided to dribble out. I'm not sure if thats related to the urine retention or not.

I set up an appt. with my mainstream doctor to get my vit D levels checked and discuss this with him. Should I ask him if he can refer me to a urologist? I saw a gynecologist who just recommended surgery and taking out my uterus while they were at it. I am starting to wonder if estrogen treatment would help. I'm nursing a 7 month old too though so maybe I need to hold off on that.

Can you sort of shift things around in there to help the pee come out? When I was talking to the doctor and the PT this week they asked me if I had to push/move things around in order to pee or poop. I didn't have too, but I'm not sure if would have occurred to me to try that.


So the urogynocologist told me that it is all 3 of my pelvic organs and that at this point a pessary wouldn't help. If I want to fix it, I will need surgery. Then it is just a matter of what kind of surgery. But she did mention removing my uterus.

[tobefree]

Hey Mamas. I have been dealing with Pelvic Organ Prolapse for over a year now. Darn it! It was 2 months after the birth of my second child when my bladder fell and my rectum came out of place. I have devoted a lot of energy, money we didnt really have and a ton of time into prolapse and my journey toward healing. What I can recommend is finding a good physical therapist whom you can be completely open with. Who hopefully can do internal exams. I finally found one who helps teach me toning excercises. Rents out internal biofeedback sensors (I highly recommend trying one of these machines) and listens really well and takes in everything. I give Thanks and count my blessings for her. So, when I can afford to go, I go. I am setting up a visit with a Mayan Abdominal Massage practicioner for next month as well. A midwife recommended the hab-it dvd to me and said a lot of women found it helpful. So maybe check it out online if you want. I tried acupuncture, which I feel helped my well being some, not necessarily my prolapse. The Gyn I saw didnt have much to offer. I also tried internal myofascial release therapy, which I feel really helped release some tension and break up my scar tissue, but didnt feel much improvement in the falling out feeling. However that was early on before I had some strength back. So overall, toning is crucial. And properly implementing kegels and abdominal strengthening. If you can find someone who can help guide you through this in the beginning I think it would be wonderful. I know it has helped point me in the right direction. Many Blessings to all of you. We are not alone. Thanks so much for sharing and being here.

[JohnnaW7]

I have been reading all of your conversations since 12/2007 and I think it is awesome that you are all using midwives. One lady mentioned homeopathics too. I home school my two girls w/ Downs Syndrome, eat organic, avoid vaccinations, etc. I can tell you are kindred spirits. It is a pleasure and an honor to have the opportunity to get to know all of you. I would have had a midwife and I was ready to do it all, if I had not had 4 ectopic pregnancies in my mid 20's. With my plumbing all gone, insult was added to injury when I immediately began having severe health problems and learned that I had been contaminated with Systemic Candidiasis. I know I could have had invetro-fertilization, but my body was too sick to nurture a fetus. Adoption was my only option.

I have heard some of you express anger about not being properly diagnosed for a few years. My health deteriorated at a steady rate for 17 years. I developed such severe malnutrition that I went from a size 14 to size 2, and I have difficulty maintaining my weight in ways you can't imagine. I have permanent nerve damage from vit. B deficiency. The list of foods I can not consume is so long, it makes me wonder what I exist on. My meals must be pureed, but still, I can't digest my food very well. More than a dozen different doctors misdiagnosed me with Irritable Bowel Syndrome during those 17 years. And, two other doctors said I needed a shrink. In 2008 I found out that all this time it was pelvic organ prolapse (rectocele, cystocele, enterocele and prolapsed uterus - all at the same time). I had a rectocele repair and PT hystorectomy in July 2008. Believe me! Not having my period is WONDERFUL! I am 46 years old. I thought all would be fine, but about 1 1/2 years ago I noticed that I had to consciously think about breathing all the time, but not when I am lying down. It puzzled me, until I learned that my cystocele and enterocele have gotten much worse. Two years ago they were not bad enough to do anything about, but now they require surgery? Plus, my rectocele is back! Each prolapse is an individual symptom of one very slow progressing, cumulitive event. My guts are falling out! Now my diaphragm is being pulled down and that is why I must concentrate on moving my diaphragm every breath, all day long. When I don't, I find myself not breathing.

The hardest part has been finding a doctor who will believe me. No, the hardest part is watching my two children and my husband suffer along with me. Second on that list is not being able to have any bowel movements at all. Enemas do not work either, because my intestines have obstructions. Doctors have no idea how limited their tests are! I had a video defecography lately, but it didn't show much, because my intestines were EMPTY and the inflammation was gone. Everything is different when I am consuming food, instead of contrast. I think my rectocele and cystocele are worse because they are being compressed by the weight of my constipated intestines. You are right to hold on to your uterus, because when it is gone, your intestines fall. When you have been to so many doctors, been examined in every possible position and been through the most exposing tests, modesty disappears, wouldn't you agree!

I like the idea of giving birth in water and I think that would be ideal to ease abdominal pressures during delivery. For hundreds of years, women sat on a birthing stool and let gravity help. I can tell you that I used to raise dairy goats. One of my females used to put her front feet up on a bale of straw while in labor, so that gravity would help her push the baby out. I marveled! Who's idea was it for women to lay on their backs while delivering a baby?

One thing I think is missing in your thought processes is NUTRITION. People used to eat fresh, real, unprocessed, wholesome food. Women had a dozen babies and worked like men, but didn't have prolapses. They ate foods prepared fresh, directly from the earth, and received optimal nutrition from "live food", not from boxes and cans. I believe we are seeing an increase in disease in general and in POP in particular, because people are eating dead food. I used to eat that way! I have learned this - If you want to be healthy, "eat your food as close to the way God made it as you can get it, and you will be well".

Another thing that has my attention is seeing little children, esp. girls, lifting their siblings or hugging other children their size around the waist and carrying them around. Their mothers praise them and encourage that behavior by complementing them on how "strong they are". This is the beginning of prolapse for that little girl, I can see it. Also, children should not lift more than 10% of their body weight, so lugging backpacks full of books is a recipe for prolapse too. I have lifted my body weight since I was 14 years old. The oldest of 2 girls, I was my fathers son. He emphasized that my value as a person was all about how strong I was and how hard I could work. Weight training/lifting was my gym in high school. I was a high rise roofer and then a truck driver for 11 years, including freight delivery. I had no idea that I was hurting myself. I wish someone had told me at an early age, "just because you can lift something, does not mean that you should". I used my body to care for and make the world accessible to people with disabilities for 15 years. How ironic that all of that service to care for people in wheelchairs has just about put me in a wheelchair. I have such severe prolapse of everything that I am counting the months, not years of my life that are left. If I don't get all of this fixed soon, and fixed right, I don't expect to see my 50th birthday. Hate to be so down, but my stubborn iron will and caring for my family is the only thing that keeps me going. My quality of life has literally been "in the toilet" for most of my life because of this. My husband turns his head the other way, because it is all too overwhelming and frightening. We have had no sex in over one year, because of prolapse. We have been married 21 years. He is a good man, who has endured my ill health for most of our marriage. It grosses him out to hear me talk to him about these things. It would be nice to have someone to talk to.

I didn't realize how many women experience this. I have never pushed a baby out of my body, so that was not what caused my prolapses. Lifting weight did this to me, so I don't think working out with weights is such a good idea. Personal experience: I believe God designed womens bodies to carry a toddler until they can walk on their own. I figure our limit should be 35 lbs. We carry them so we can move faster than they can walk, right. I have learned to work smarter, not stronger. Lifting my youngest daughter to put her in a shopping cart, so I can keep track of her, was a no-no too. I have cystocele repair tomorrow 9/21/2010. I have an appointment with another doctor at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, Maryland on 10/4 about my enterocele and possible Internal Intussusception Rectal Prolapse. I had to learn about that on google, because my Proctologist is clueless. "You need to treat the patient, not the test!", I told him. Oh, and about being examined lying down... When they first developed abdominal x-rays, surgeons were performing lots of organ lifting surgeries, because their only knowledge of the human anatomy until then was to view the location of internal organs in a cadaver. Someone must have realized at some point that gravity works, and they stopped doing that surgery. I feel like I need abdominal reconstruction. I have this question - If you were in an auto accident and a guard rail came through your car door and cut your abdomen in half, who would you want to put you back together? That is the surgeon I need! Unfortunately, I think this will end up being done in stages. I will just be thrilled and shocked if it all gets fixed and I can start living. My family needs me to be ME, and so do I.

[aprongirl]

New here. with questions

Well bah! Not happy to be here but happy to have found a forum of women to discuss this with/relate.

I'm 26 and had my beautiful baby boy 3 1/2 months ago. I carried my son very low the entire pregnancy and had a lot of pelvic pain while pregnant. I had no idea POP even existed! Knowing what I know now I would have put myself on bedrest! But of course that's how we all feel now wanting to be able to do things differently! I first noticed my POP when I was about 37 weeks pregnant. I was so horrified/scared but my midwife assured me that it would probably go away after birth. My boy was engaged and as low as he could be for weeks/months prior to his birth. I had a wonderful waterbirth. A fast labor, a 1st degree tear and an 8lb 2 oz baby with a just over 14 inch head, bigger than what any of us expected for me (I have a pretty thin frame). Unfortunately the prolapse has remained. I have seen a urogyn and I have a "small" probably 1 degree rectocele and a 2 cystocele. My uterus is very high up.

as a side note: I believe if I had a c-section I would still have a POP as it presented itself in pregnancy. I think the biggest factors for me were the way I carried my baby the entire pregnancy and I suspect genetics.

I am being as proactive about this as possible. I have started seeing a physical therapist specializing in women's pelvic floor health, and I've been doing the hab-it dvd for two months now. I think about my posture all the time, and I wait until it is always the most advantagious time to have a BM with no straining

Going to see the urogyn was incredibly depressing as every other person in the waiting room was about 50 years older than me. I told my PT this and that I felt like I was the youngest person experiencing this and felt like a freak and she laughed and said, "no way. you are definitely not alone in this"

It is just so frustrating! I want to have more children! and I want to be as whole as possible too. This issue is so hard. So many parts of who we are are affected by this: physical, emotional, sexual. I have days where I feel positive and days where I feel just horrible.

I want to see results and I get so discouraged that things seem about the same.

what seems to be typical as far as healing goes? (I know this is something that must be managed and does not just go away) I'm bf and will be for some time to come.

Also, this mayan uterine massage... has anyone experienced/heard of it working for bladder- not uterine prolapse?

Chiropractor...worth it? I'm scared it could make things worse If I got adjusted incorrectly or something.

What kind of cardio exercising are you guys doing that is POP safe?

kegals? my PT has evaluated me doing them and I know I'm doing them right now. As for now I'm of the belief they will help but I have heard all kinds of things about them. what has worked for you guys?

Do any of you also experience openess in your vaginas as well? When I am laying down with a mirror I can see in mine. I know this must be related to my POP but I'm curious as to others experiences.

Thank you. It has been helpful to find this thread. I want to read through all of it. I appreciate everyone's honesty and the encouraging vibe shared in the forum.

[scottishmommy]

I think the chiro is totally worth it, especially if you had pelvic pain during pregnancy. Also I find doing a lot of deep squats helps even more than kegals. Welcome! I'm sorry you are going through this, but I promise that pop really is a very common condition. Can't write more toddler is pulling my shirt down to nurse

[heidirk]

Hey all.

So my issues have been pretty much under control, except for right before AF when it seems everything could fall right out. Splinting is entirely necessary at that point in my cycle. No mount of fiber or coffee ftm helps then.

blergh.... I decided to try a sea sponge today- day three of AF and my flow is pretty light- it stayed in and seemed pretty high up! But it also feels like it's making my rectocele/cystocele worse?

We STILL do not have insurance- but I may have access to some medical care pretty soon so maybe I can be evaluated then.

AFA urine retention pwit- have you tried a modified squat oposition like with a stool when you pee? I find leaning far far forwards helps right me bladder and then I can empty.

[Jules112]

Originally Posted by aprongirl

Well bah! Not happy to be here but happy to have found a forum of women to discuss this with/relate.

I'm 26 and had my beautiful baby boy 3 1/2 months ago. I carried my son very low the entire pregnancy and had a lot of pelvic pain while pregnant. I had no idea POP even existed! Knowing what I know now I would have put myself on bedrest! But of course that's how we all feel now wanting to be able to do things differently! I first noticed my POP when I was about 37 weeks pregnant. I was so horrified/scared but my midwife assured me that it would probably go away after birth. My boy was engaged and as low as he could be for weeks/months prior to his birth. I had a wonderful waterbirth. A fast labor, a 1st degree tear and an 8lb 2 oz baby with a just over 14 inch head, bigger than what any of us expected for me (I have a pretty thin frame). Unfortunately the prolapse has remained. I have seen a urogyn and I have a "small" probably 1 degree rectocele and a 2 cystocele. My uterus is very high up.

as a side note: I believe if I had a c-section I would still have a POP as it presented itself in pregnancy. I think the biggest factors for me were the way I carried my baby the entire pregnancy and I suspect genetics.

I am being as proactive about this as possible. I have started seeing a physical therapist specializing in women's pelvic floor health, and I've been doing the hab-it dvd for two months now. I think about my posture all the time, and I wait until it is always the most advantagious time to have a BM with no straining

Going to see the urogyn was incredibly depressing as every other person in the waiting room was about 50 years older than me. I told my PT this and that I felt like I was the youngest person experiencing this and felt like a freak and she laughed and said, "no way. you are definitely not alone in this"

It is just so frustrating! I want to have more children! and I want to be as whole as possible too. This issue is so hard. So many parts of who we are are affected by this: physical, emotional, sexual. I have days where I feel positive and days where I feel just horrible.

I want to see results and I get so discouraged that things seem about the same.

what seems to be typical as far as healing goes? (I know this is something that must be managed and does not just go away) I'm bf and will be for some time to come.

Also, this mayan uterine massage... has anyone experienced/heard of it working for bladder- not uterine prolapse?

Chiropractor...worth it? I'm scared it could make things worse If I got adjusted incorrectly or something.

What kind of cardio exercising are you guys doing that is POP safe?

kegals? my PT has evaluated me doing them and I know I'm doing them right now. As for now I'm of the belief they will help but I have heard all kinds of things about them. what has worked for you guys?

Do any of you also experience openess in your vaginas as well? When I am laying down with a mirror I can see in mine. I know this must be related to my POP but I'm curious as to others experiences.

Thank you. It has been helpful to find this thread. I want to read through all of it. I appreciate everyone's honesty and the encouraging vibe shared in the forum.

firstly, sorry to all who have posted with new prolapse problems, i feel for you all but you are in the right place for support

aprongirl, i too carried very low and in the last few weeks i could actually feel his head pressing against the vaginal wall about 2 inches inside!
I was scheduled for a c/s because i had one with my first as she was breech, but he came earlier and quickly so they hd no time for the c/s, and at first i was blaming the forceps delivery i had for my prolapses, but as time went on (almost 11 months pp now) i realise that the weakness of my pelvic floor was actually caused by pregnancy (although forceps would have probaby not helped the situation). It wasnt until 2 weeks pp that i was a little constipated and pushed a little too hard and - down came my organs!

I have a mild cstocele, rectocele and uterine prolapse, i am 27.

I had 9 months of physio, which i can now say did not really help me too much - although she did teach me how to properly contract my pelvic floor muscles so i am now more aware of them.

Looking back, all the kegels she got me to do for 9 months did not make much of a difference in my pelvic floor strength or my prolapses (although they did not get worse)

I only do kegels a couple of times a day when i remember now, and i feel that my pelvic strength is about the same as it was prior to pregnancy.
I probably do about 5-10 really good contractions a day and about 10 pulses at various times through out the day.

To be honest, for me, the real healing factor was time! Over time i have gradually began feeling more normal down there, i began acupuncture at 9 months pp and i highly recommend this, my pelvic pain has now gone.

If your pelvic allignment is out, your organs cannot possibly be well supported and if you correct yor pelvic allignment you have a better chance of recovering those muscles and helping to life those organs back up (acupunctue has techniques to fix your pelvic allignment and pull your pelvic organs back up). I have noticed a huge increase in pelvic floor sensation and strength since beginning acupuncture and i have noticed an improvement in my prolapses over time, i have also got sensation back in my previous c/s scar (which has been numb for 6 years).

As for the looseness of the vaginal opening, it is related to the prolapses, i have it too, and really you are just going to have to live with it, my partner has not mentioned it being a problem and i dont find it a problem lol it has not tightened up with the kegels at all, i think thats just how its going to stay.

As for exercise, I am very active and have been going to the gym 5 days a week since 8 months pp (i was going regularly before then as well) and i have no restrictions at all in what I can do, I do yoga, pilates, weights, cardio, jumping, boxing etc. You just need to remember to squeese your belly button in and contract your pelvic floor when your exercising (which we all should do anyway).

You mentioned healing time, well it would be different for everyone i suppose - it took about 2-3 months after i discovered the prolapses for that dragging, heavy, achy, tampon-being-stuck-feeling to go away. But i also had a episiotomy which took a long time to heal.

Give yourself time, your prolapses are mild, they are NORMAL, i'd like to find a woman who's given birth vaginally who's vagina has gone back to exactly how it was prior to giving birth! I can tell you that it would be difficult to find. My gynae (who i saw once) said my vagina was normal for someone who's had a baby! Some women just arent really aware of their body and wouldnt notice something 'out of place'. You will feel better in time, take it easy, eat lots of fruit and fibre, and drink lots of water.

I am still curious how a 3rd pregnancy would effect my prolapses, I am going to wait a couple of years, my body is still healing!

[pwit]

xelann- I read several of you mention stinting to pee or poop but it doesn't work for me and my bladder feels like its fallen in no matter what I do. As long as I eat plenty of fiber the rectocele doesn't usually bother me but the cyctecele is getting worse. I cannot live with all these problems the rest of my life- I'm 29! I'm going to a urogynocologist in a few weeks. I'm hoping to get some sort of guidance on physical therapy to help but I'm starting to feel more open to surgery as long as I can find a very experienced surgeon.

[wombatclay]

Heyla all... welcome to those who just found us *(and welcome to the MDC community in general as well hopefully you enjoy the whole site and only need our healing support now and then)*

trying to catch up...

Mayan massage can help with a variety of "out of place" parts... the bladder gets lifted/moved too so it could help. I think the how-to article in Mothering Magazine focused on the uterus, but if you found a therapist they could customize the diy training for the bladder.

Chiro probably wouldn't make POP worse, but unless you have secondary problems (postural or back pain related to the POP) it may not be the best place to spend a limited budget.

I also find that AF and the related hormonal shifts cause a big difference in POP symptoms. I used a daily "every woman" style calendar to record moon cycles and POP symptoms and it actually helped a lot in terms of seeing the patterns of food/elimination/activity/cycle/symptoms. Actually, it seemed that (in my case) my POP was actually less during the days when the symptoms were worse... as if my body had adjusted to the sensation of my "normal prolapse" and then when AF/hormones lifted my organs a bit my body freaked out. Silly body!

I found sea sponges to be very uncomfortable but I blame that mostly on the scar tissue, not the POP but I know a few mamas without scar tissue who also find the sponges painful so.... do keep that in mind while trying them out as a pessary.

Ending Femal Pain is a wonderful book and amazing resource in general... it's a bit older so libraries may have it. If you can't afford PT or more conventional medicine this would be a valuable resource. The BAKS basics of the Tupler Technique are wonderful DIY exercises that can be done anywhere and are valuable to any woman (I'm planning on teaching them to my daughters)

POP is a complicated condition, and I'm sure it has many many interrelated "causes". My personal belief is that cesarean surgery plays a big part in the sudden skyrocketing of painful POP rates. I mean, here is a surgery that is becoming more and more common in young women (the group that is also showing more sever POP) and what does the surgery involve? Pulling the bladder off the uterus, physically removing the uterus from the body cavity, and then putting everything back and hoping for minimal adhesions. It makes sense to me that moving organs around would increase the chance of those organs moving around again on their own... after all, the natural bonds holding them in place have been artificially cut and replaced. But... there are no studies yet that look at the connection between pelvic organ surgery and pelvic organ prolapse so for now it's just my own pet project.

It is pretty clear though that surgical intevention generally leads to further surgical intervention. In some cases it's the only option for the relief of symptoms, and I'm not knocking surgery (my mom has had a series of surgeries for POP and I plan on having at least one surgery at some time down the road), but it's something to go into with as much information as possible... like... many women find that surgical correction of a uterine POP results in urinary incontinance since it was the weight of the uterus that was keeping the bladder leakage in check. And the leakage may be a bigger quality of life concern than the uterine POP symptoms.

hang in there all, and be uplifted!