Pelvic Organ Prolapse, Support Thread - Page 5

[runes]

Originally Posted by hanno

I have a doctor's appointment Friday for a diagnosis, this thread is giving me hope.

there is SO much hope. stay strong, mama.

[fruitful womb]

hanno
I have a doctor's appointment Friday for a diagnosis, this thread is giving me hope.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. We're here for you! If you get this message before you go. Please tell the doctor NOT to insert his finger into your rectum and streach the tissue out of the vagina. This will HURT! And it will absolutely make things worse. Sorry for the TMI. This happened to me and I wish I could sue his A@@!!! My bottom is hanging out of my vagina because of this and I NEVER had a problem with a rectocle before he did what he did to me. So, please be careful. Maybe all they'll do is a Q-tip method dx. Another Doctor, (second opinion) used the Q-tip method. They insert it in the urethra and have you cough. If it deflects pass a 40 degree angle that should say something.

[wombatclay]

Good luck hanno! Let us know how it goes.

Birth culture- I'm afraid the modern "natural birth" movement plays into this as well. Women want to demonstrate that birth is natural, that it's not something the med pros need to interfere with, that women are made to birth. So hours or even minutes after birth women try to be up and about to "prove" this (ignoring or "forgetting" the rest element that surrounded natural birth for hundreds of generations). Birth Centers send mama home after a few hours, hospitals keep you for 2 days tops, and in a homebirth the attendants leave after a few hours. We don't have the support system in place to allow a mama a classic "lying in" and we have the mind set that a "lying in" period isn't necessary since birth is "natural" and "taking a break" would imply something was wrong.

Not that there is an easy fix, but sometimes I worry about mamas in the natural birth community who site examples of women who are working, pause to have their babe, and go back to work in order to support natural birth. Yes, this has and does happen, but it's not the ideal and it's certainly not appropriate for a woman who isn't in peak shape, who isn't birthing in her teens or early twenties, and who will probably live into her 90s. It makes me wonder sometimes...I'm 100% in favor of natural birth and belive passionately in birth and in women's abilities, but sometimes I wonder if natural birth without the recovery support system is doing more harm then good for women's health. Again, no quick fixes or easy answers, just another example of the complex disfunction of modern times.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by wombatclay

Birth culture- I'm afraid the modern "natural birth" movement plays into this as well. Women want to demonstrate that birth is natural, that it's not something the med pros need to interfere with, that women are made to birth. So hours or even minutes after birth women try to be up and about to "prove" this (ignoring or "forgetting" the rest element that surrounded natural birth for hundreds of generations). Birth Centers send mama home after a few hours, hospitals keep you for 2 days tops, and in a homebirth the attendants leave after a few hours. We don't have the support system in place to allow a mama a classic "lying in" and we have the mind set that a "lying in" period isn't necessary since birth is "natural" and "taking a break" would imply something was wrong.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is exactly how I felt after DS's birth. I felt like superwoman because I wasn't all groggy and drugged out and so I felt like life could go back to "normal." I don't blame anyone else for me doing too much after the birth, but it would've been nice if my midwives would've really hit it home as to why taking it easy is so important. And yes, there was a part of me that felt that if I didn't bounce back quickly that all the nay-sayers would be like, "If natural birth is so good, why isn't she up and moving shortly after?" But, of course, what they say really DOES NOT MATTER - having a healthy pelvic floor matters! Next time I birth, I will definitely rest a lot more in the beginning.

Also, to the pp who talked about reformer classes - yes, thank you for reminding me of that. I have been meaning to sign up for one, but I had forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

Thanks and to all!

[hanno]

Thank you all for the support. It means so much! I am scared because I really want one more bio baby.
While I was pregnant I asked both the o/b, the o/b's nurse and my midwife what was happening that I could now 'see' parts of me that I couldn't see before when I looked in the mirror. They all gave me the same basic answer: you're body goes through changes when you become a mama and things move down and it's okay, with a little laugh that sounded (in each) like I was being patted for being a naive new mom. When I was having the baby it was all great, I didn't push, the baby/my body did and he came out without any pain, just too fast for what I was emotionally prepared for so I breathed out some of the contractions but I gave that up soon enough. The placenta still wasn't out after an hour and a half so the midwives gave me tinctures and had me try on the toilet and tried tugging on the cord and it wasn't coming out and the midwife pretty much threatened hospital or pitocin (which I did not want) plus I just wanted my baby back in my arms so I pushed it with all my might until it came out. I lost a lot of blood and I only remember little bits of the next few days. I have a pretty good idea that this really hurt me and I know that none of it was necessary.
Now it's so low sometimes it's coming out. Kegels sitting, standing or laying seem to make it worse but if I do kegels with my hips up high, I can get it back up there and stay up until I exert again. Going for a long walk or lifting my cast iron pot'll put me right back to square one.
I was also wondering- does surgery always mean no more children?

[wombatclay]

Hugs mama. Surgery doesn't mean no more children unless you decide to do a hysterectomy. A "sling" to hold organs in place is a common surgical option for treating prolapse and you can certainly have more children after that procedure...though you might be considered higher risk and have trouble finding a midwife who will attend your birth.

The real "problem" is that another pregnancy will exert more pressure on the area and between the pressure and the stretching and the loosening power of the pregnancy hormones the benefits from the surgery are probably going to be undone and you'll be back where you started. That's why many doctors will advise holding off on surgery until after you're done having children. It's the same reason doctors usually wont suggest a surgical tummy tuck or diastasis correction if the woman is planning more children...the pregnancy and birth will undo the surgical correction.

[Birth&Bunnies]

I would have to go to the Dr to get the official diagnosis. I've never bothered to mention it since they don't have much to offer in the way to real healing, just surgery and drugs. Since my mom has dealt with all of it too, I just usually follow her recommendations since she got the Practitioner Licience as an H.H.P.
But I thought that all women experience some degree of that muscle separating. The exercises I was talking about are for that over all tummy area and that helps lower back too. I also do backwards crunches, where I suck in for so long and do it over and over. I don't want to make it worse, so maybe the diagnosis would help.

[ecoteat]

Hi, Max! I'm not too happy about joining this thread, but it looks like I might be...

I developed hemerrhoids when 8 months pregnant. The MWs said they would go away after the birth. I had a lovely HB, but in hindsight I think I was stressing my pelvic organs too much by straining to open things up. My daughter was born pretty quickly and I had 3 stitches afterward. PP, I assumed the rhoids were just not going away. I would have to push the bulge back in after pooping. (At first, it bulged more often than that, but it got better). It wasn't itchy like rhoids. I also noticed a bulge in my vagina sometimes, but just figured things were shifted after birth; no big deal.

So after having to put my butt back in place every day, I decided to see a doctor. I made an apt thinking it was rhoids, but the more I read I'm realizing it must be a rectal prolapse. And now I'm scared. I see the dr. on the 29th. I should have done this much sooner; if any invasive treatments are needed, I won't want to do them during the school year (I'm a teacher). I'm probably jumping the gun and getting worried too soon, but Dr. Google won't let me just walk away and I'm imagining the worst.

Anyway, that's my story. I hope you won't see too much more of me here!

[indignantgirl]

Wow, so glad to have found this thread. I haven't had a chance to read all the way through it yet, but I wanted to make sure that everybody knows about www.wholewoman.com. It's a great website and forum. I have the book by the owner of the site, called Saving the Whole Woman. Christine's work has made such a huge difference in my life, both in my ability to physically and mentally deal with my problem. There are lots of women who have gone on to have natural childbirth even though they have prolapse, which gives me so much hope.

My specific issue is a rectocele stemming from the forceps delivery of my first child. Luckily my next two births were UC, almost no pushing stage (I never actually pushed), so my prolapse didn't get much worse. I feel like my uterus isn't as high as it could be, but it's not low enough to be considered prolapsing, and I feel fortunate about that. I'm hoping to keep things from falling even more with postural work from the book I mentioned, so far things have gotten better, although I still have to be careful...no more moving furniture for me. When I'm trying get hubby to do some heavy lifting for me and he's feeling too lazy, I just say, "I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time.

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by indignantgirl

Wow, so glad to have found this thread. I haven't had a chance to read all the way through it yet, but I wanted to make sure that everybody knows about www.wholewoman.com. It's a great website and forum. I have the book by the owner of the site, called Saving the Whole Woman. Christine's work has made such a huge difference in my life, both in my ability to physically and mentally deal with my problem. There are lots of women who have gone on to have natural childbirth even though they have prolapse, which gives me so much hope.

My specific issue is a rectocele stemming from the forceps delivery of my first child. Luckily my next two births were UC, almost no pushing stage (I never actually pushed), so my prolapse didn't get much worse. I feel like my uterus isn't as high as it could be, but it's not low enough to be considered prolapsing, and I feel fortunate about that. I'm hoping to keep things from falling even more with postural work from the book I mentioned, so far things have gotten better, although I still have to be careful...no more moving furniture for me. When I'm trying get hubby to do some heavy lifting for me and he's feeling too lazy, I just say, "I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time.

Yes I've seen that website! Its a great website I'm going to by her book and the exercise video she offers. Like, tomorrow! We get paid yea!!
Your story with the forceps sounds a lot like my story. The OB (second OB for a second opinion) said my pelvic floor was shot when the OB that delivered my first child cut a fourth degree episiotomy and used forceps. He didn't even give me a chance to push. Maybe the no pushing thing might have been a good thing. I've been thinking a lot about a UC on our next delivery. Dh won't stand for it and I've become frighten of MW at least the one who helped me deliver my ds 3m ago. She ordered me to push on all three of my HB with her as my MW. Shot out a 10ber in 2 min and my recent baby was 9lb delivered in 4 min. I want to learn more about no pushing to deliver.

"I guess I'll do it...I hope my uterus doens't fall out..." That gets him moving every time.

I do that too!!!

Originally Posted by ecoteat

Hi, Max! I'm not too happy about joining this thread, but it looks like I might be...

I developed hemerrhoids when 8 months pregnant. The MWs said they would go away after the birth. I had a lovely HB, but in hindsight I think I was stressing my pelvic organs too much by straining to open things up. My daughter was born pretty quickly and I had 3 stitches afterward. PP, I assumed the rhoids were just not going away. I would have to push the bulge back in after pooping. (At first, it bulged more often than that, but it got better). It wasn't itchy like rhoids. I also noticed a bulge in my vagina sometimes, but just figured things were shifted after birth; no big deal.

So after having to put my butt back in place every day, I decided to see a doctor. I made an apt thinking it was rhoids, but the more I read I'm realizing it must be a rectal prolapse. And now I'm scared. I see the dr. on the 29th. I should have done this much sooner; if any invasive treatments are needed, I won't want to do them during the school year (I'm a teacher). I'm probably jumping the gun and getting worried too soon, but Dr. Google won't let me just walk away and I'm imagining the worst.

Anyway, that's my story. I hope you won't see too much more of me here!

I needed that! This is a great place to normalize our situation! Don't let that doctor scare you! At least don't show it to him especially if he is trying to talk you into surgery. A lot of them will do that. Its how they sell their business. "If the cry they buy!" Let us know how the visit goes. How far along are you pp? I don't think I saw that in your post. Oh and Kudos your a teacher!! Very cool!

[ecoteat]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

I needed that! This is a great place to normalize our situation! Don't let that doctor scare you! At least don't show it to him especially if he is trying to talk you into surgery. A lot of them will do that. Its how they sell their business. "If the cry they buy!" Let us know how the visit goes. How far along are you pp? I don't think I saw that in your post. Oh and Kudos your a teacher!! Very cool!

I'm almost 15 months PP. I feel a little silly that I've just been annoyed by this for so long and haven't done anything about it!

[meg-momto2]

hi everyone. i'm Meg. i'm about 4 weeks PP(i know, still very early in the healing phase) and i'm pretty sure i have an uterine prolapse. DD was 9.5lbs and i pushed her out in less then 15 minutes. i can feel my cervix bulging out when i walk and it's much worse with BM's. i have my PP check up in less then 2 weeks and i'll be talking to the midwife about what i can do to help things get back in place. i the mean time i'll be researching like crazy. my mom had her uterus removed a few years ago due to prolapse and i'm hoping it will never have to come to surgery for me.

[fruitful womb]

Hi meg-momto2! Wow your really early in the pp period! First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on your newest addition!!! I wish our MWs told us this could happen and counseled us on ways to avoid it. I would rest as much as possible. Please what ever you do DON'T strain on the toilet while having a BM. Try not to ever get constipated. At 4wks you have hope for a full recovery. Ever heard of 42 days for 42 years? There is a lot of truth to that. This is a standard care of AyurDoulas. Again, REST as much as you can. If I could come to your house and do your , and cook for you I really would. Theres a need for cultural change in America! Everyone expects us to jump out bed as soon as we have a baby. Especially if we had a natural birth. For you, since your so early in the pp period, take some homeopathic Sepia 200C. I had the same thing happen to me after I had my ds. At one point I saw my cervix at the opening. Since taking the sepia ( I've been taking the sepia 30C b/c the 200C is hard to find. You have to order it. The 30C works for me and I got that at the vitamin shoppe.) My Midwife Handbook suggested the 200C...

Take care of your self. Hope all goes well at the next appointment with your Midwife. Enjoy your babymoon!

[meg-momto2]

thanks fruitful womb. i'm trying to rest but i'm one of those people who can't sit around and do nothing. i need to keep busy or i go crazy. i'm going to look for Sepia at some local supplement shops(lots here in Seattle) and see if my chiropractor can do anything to help. my mom also does cranial sacral work and i wonder if it will help. i know it's still early to worry too much about it. i just don't want to make it worse.

[nicoley73]

Hi Meg! Do try to take it easy. Try not to lift anything over 20 lbs. Prolapse is essentially a hernia. I know it's hard, but it's an investment in your long term health.

It's interesting to me that some of you have mothers who also have/had prolapse. Did they talk to you about it prior to you giving birth? I think a lot about what I am going to tell my daughter. I don't know if prolapse is really avoidable if you have a genetic predisposition and vaginal births. C-sections might have been the better option for me - it might be the case for my daughter. But then I would hate for her to miss out on a vaginal delivery...

[wombatclay]

My mom also hada prolapse...and many women in her family have had them as well. Most (including her) have had hysterectomies but I'm not planning surgery (and I have a bladder prolapse, not a uterine prolapse anyway).

Although vaginal delivery can aggravate a prolapse, and there are birth scenarios that contribute to prolapse, a planned c/s doesn't prevent prolapse. Much of the "damage" happens during pregnancy as tissues stretch and the pressure of the growing babe pulls on the body in new ways.

In fact, my OB said my c/s may have contributed since I'm primarily dealing with a bladder prolapse...during a c/s the bladder is "detached" and moved out of the way so the surgeon can reach the uterus. So my bladder was already traumatized by the time I have my VBAC. I was lucky...several mamas here were left with permanent urinary incontenance after their c/s due to nerve damage.

[meg-momto2]

my mom never really talked much about it. she would tell me stories about patients(she's a RN in L&D) or a friend or two who had prolapses but never talked about her own. i'm starting to think i had a minor prolapse after DS birth. no one ever mentioned prolapse to me so i figured it was how things were supposed to feel and look after a vaginal birth. i wish i had know more about this and tried some preventive measures. does anyone know if Cranial Sacral therapy can help?

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by meg-momto2

my mom never really talked much about it. she would tell me stories about patients(she's a RN in L&D) or a friend or two who had prolapses but never talked about her own. i'm starting to think i had a minor prolapse after DS birth. no one ever mentioned prolapse to me so i figured it was how things were supposed to feel and look after a vaginal birth. i wish i had know more about this and tried some preventive measures. does anyone know if Cranial Sacral therapy can help?

Sorry about not answering sooner. I don't know about cranial sacral therapy but I wonder if you would get the same results with myan uterine massage.
http://www.arvigomassage.com/
Check it out.
I hear it works. I'm going to see a guy that knows about this type of massage. Soon, I hope. Let you know how it goes. I'll ask about the cranial sacral therapy as well. I can ask my dh but he is sleeping and I keep forgetting to ask. oh well.

[ecoteat]

I just looked at the Mayan massage website and was shocked to find a practitioner near me (we're pretty rural and I wasn't expecting that). I haven't seen a dr yet, but I think I'm probably dealing with just a rectal prolapse, but that massage seems to be more useful for uterine or bladder prolapses. Does anyone know if it is useful for rectal prolapse? I want to be armed with as much info as possible before seeing the dr (who is a surgeon, btw, so I feel like I need to be well-versed in non-surgical options beforehand). My regular dr is a DO; does anyone know if there's anything osteopathy can do to help? Homeopathy? Herbs? Anything? (I'm really grasping at straws now!)

[~*max*~]

Hello everyone & welcome to the new members to the tribe. ( Ecoteat)

I've just returned from a week long camping trip. We had a wonderful time. I was worried that my prolapses would cause me problems w/all the physical activity, but I did pretty well. There were a couple times I needed to take ibuprofin & rest (my uterine prolapse really aggravates my PSD), but other than that I was in good shape. I really think the Mayan massage has been helping. My chiropractor noticed a difference in the feel of my uterus & I have been feeling much better.

Amy, I would definately try the Mayan Massage, even for rectocele. It has so many benefits and if you have a rectocele, there is a good chance your uterus is off too. Many women here have had success w/homeopathic Sepia. I saw an osteopath about my prolapses, and she didn't have much to offer. (She even recommended the surgery.Boo!) But, perhaps yours will have a different perspective. Do be prepared when you see the surgeon for the surgery recommendations. It seems that surgery is the only way western docs know to treat this. If you haven't already, I recommend checking out wholewoman.com . I feel like her postures and exercises have also been really helpful. Good luck at the doctor!