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Parents who do things differently (no "sigh") - Page 5

post #81 of 235
Quote:
The title of this thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is starting to remind me of the song

"Friends in Low Places"

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post #82 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavis337 View Post


Seriously, folks. MDC is a great place, but since when does it become ok to post about other people's food and carseat choices when they're not actually doing anything wrong?
Well, I've been here for 5 years, and applesauce and an older carseat are actually MINOR on the judgmental scale that I've seen over the years.

There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.

MDC attracts the extremes, and always has. It's one of the most fascinating anthropological phenomenon you'll find on the Internet.

As for the OP: If I see another mother or father who is behaving in a way that is unsafe to to children or others, I say something. If the quality of the food that is *shared* may have a negative effect on your child, then say something in a diplomatic way.
post #83 of 235
*cringe* everytime I read one of these threads I look around me suspiciously in case an IRL MDC momma is watching me... even when I'm at home!!

But I did think of one helpful idea - if the carseat thingie bothers you... my DD's dcp hosted a carseat safety demonstration in the parking lot of their center one afternoon/evening. The fire station and police sent reps to show the parents proper installation, fit, and to check on the general safety of all of our seats.

Ask the dcp if they would be interested in hosting a similar event?
post #84 of 235
A carseat check would be a great idea
post #85 of 235
Quote:
There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.
Nice attitude. I'm betting these people pride themselves on being open minded and loving and accepting too.

I was publicly screamed at in Berkeley CA for giving my daughter a bottle and not breast feeding her. She is adopted, breast feeding didnt' work out for us (we tried) She said it was abuse not to BF my daughter.

If you were to mention the carseat, I would offer to buy her one.

As far as the food, well, I think the best answer would to be setting a good example with your own kids. Mention in conversation how you read something about food dyes, or juice or whatever. Don't make it frequent, but she'll probably glean some information from you
post #86 of 235
I was bothered that you said the kids have weight problems from eating this food. Did the mother tell you they are having weight problems or did you just decide that yourself?

If the food sharing is bothering you than you really need to talk to the school. They either need to make the kids sit down to eat and not share or send a list of acceptable foods to parents.
post #87 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat View Post
I was bothered that you said the kids have weight problems from eating this food. Did the mother tell you they are having weight problems or did you just decide that yourself?
It is quite obvious. And no, I didn't decide this myself.
post #88 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALkiMom View Post
the child isn't showing up to snacktime with big chunks of chocolate
Dark chocolate is a health food. Antioxidants, donchaknow.
post #89 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurumama View Post
Well, I've been here for 5 years, and applesauce and an older carseat are actually MINOR on the judgmental scale that I've seen over the years.

There was a poster here years ago who refused to be friends with anyone who ever used even one disposable diaper.

There have been posters in the past who claimed that using a stroller--ever--was borderline abusive because the baby wasn't getting the closeness he/she needed.

One drop of formula = destroyed digestive tract for ever and ever and ever.

MDC attracts the extremes, and always has. It's one of the most fascinating anthropological phenomenon you'll find on the Internet.

As for the OP: If I see another mother or father who is behaving in a way that is unsafe to to children or others, I say something. If the quality of the food that is *shared* may have a negative effect on your child, then say something in a diplomatic way.
I agree, MDC does attract extremism, and in all reality, extremism isn't bad. It becomes dangerous when "we" (collectively speaking) start forming judgements of other people based on our personal beliefs. Beliefs are different than fact - and the fact is, an overhead shield carseat that meets current safety guidelines does not warrant any type of judgement. Failure to use a carseat, or improper use of one AFTER education, well, that's different.
post #90 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhippiemama View Post
*cringe* everytime I read one of these threads I look around me suspiciously in case an IRL MDC momma is watching me... even when I'm at home!!

But I did think of one helpful idea - if the carseat thingie bothers you... my DD's dcp hosted a carseat safety demonstration in the parking lot of their center one afternoon/evening. The fire station and police sent reps to show the parents proper installation, fit, and to check on the general safety of all of our seats.

Ask the dcp if they would be interested in hosting a similar event?
I too think did they see me feeding DD in public? Perhaps the chocolate milk in her sippy was actually pediasure because she is so tiny.

The car seat check idea is a great one to try to resolve the car seat issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amitymama View Post
Seriously? Sorry, that just made me

If I received a letter from a parent about the da-dum-DUM 'dangers of artificial colors' along with research on preservatives and had a finger wagged in my face for daring to expose their little Johnny to such horrors, I would laugh my butt off. Then I would tear up the letter and laugh some more. Then I would go out and buy bright blue applesauce and send my kids to school with it everyday and enjoy the thought of that parent's head exploding.
I'm perverse that way too.
post #91 of 235
I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!

ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.
post #92 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by avent View Post

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.
They might have died, if they had food allergies or a hard time thriving on available food. And you don't believe that people in th 1800s and early 1900s ate a super-healthful diet do you? We have a romantic view of things in the past, I know, but really...if you look at what people ate it might not have been pretty with a shelf life of a million years, but by no means did they exist on twigs and leaves.

One of my grandmas had a really hard time keeping weight on as a child and teenager. She was made to eat, literally, a crisco and honey sandwich every day.

So I guess your 'good answer' would be that perhaps you should do some more research into how people (other than the upper classes and people who owned farms) ate 100 years ago.

I find the "what would you have done 100 years ago" to be just as inane as you find people saying "that's all my kid will eat". How would YOU have fed your kids a pristine organic diet 100 years ago if you, gods forbid, lived in a city? My kids are well-rounded eaters (more due to them than anything parental I've done) but I think it's a little silly to romanticize how things were in the good old days when there were toxic food additives and rotten meat, people starved and were malnourished as a matter of course, ect.

Just a little pet peeve of mine.
post #93 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavelamomela View Post
It's such a difference when you hear a reply like:

"I think it's very sweet that you wish you could help them be healthier and safer.

It's too bad you can't fix them all... sigh"

rather than

"yes, you are being way too judgemental"

Yes, I still enjoy MDC, and like seeing e/o's opinions. I just think everyone (collectively) over-reacted and over-judged a bit.
Perhaps those who indicated they thought you were being too judgmental didn't see anything that you needed to 'fix'.

Perhaps if you do not want to hear an honest answer to your question, which was 'Am I being too judgmental?', you shouldn't ask it. A simple 'Yes, you are being too judgmental.' is certianly a far cry from 'ripping your words apart'.

I don't understand why you'd ask the question if someone answering 'yes' was going to upset or offend you. I don't get it.
post #94 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
My kids are well-rounded eaters (more due to them than anything parental I've done) but I think it's a little silly to romanticize how things were in the good old days when there were toxic food additives and rotten meat, people starved and were malnourished as a matter of course, ect.
I'm not romanticizing. I'm not saying the diet was great in the city or that everyone ate perfect food. And I wasn't talking about kids with food allergies or other medical/develomental issues. I'm asking a very specific question: "If the child <without food/developmental isses> only eats blue applesauce or whatever, what would the parents have fed the child 100 years ago?" That's the question. In my line of work I see mamas w/ children who don't have issues saying stuff like this all the time. They would have died from lack of sparkly food, green goldfish crackers and blue ketchup? Really?

And I have done vast amounts of research for years. It's part of how I make a living.

I just find it hard to swallow that mamas who nursed their children so they could bond and provide them with the best nutrition feel that it's okay (or even desirable!) at a certain age to give their kids food that contains similar ingredients to what is found in formula. It's not like the child's brain stops developing because they've been weaned. In many cases kids are given artifical flavors, colors, preservatives, neurotoxins, etc. before they are weaned.

I guess when someone says their child won't eat anything else (which doesn't sound like you, btw) I think of how I would feel if I heard a mama saying that about formula while she had plenty of milk in her breasts. "He only likes formula. It tastes better to him. It's much easier to give it to him that to nurse him. He likes the blue formula best." : Not that there aren't mamas saying who wouldn't say that, it's just hard to swallow when the said mama is also a breastfeeder, maybe an extended one. I believe the sustenance and the bonding provided through nursing continue (in a different way) when the mama provides nutritious solid foods as well.
post #95 of 235
Thread Starter 

Just to clarify

I realize I didn't make this clear in my original post:

The carseat she uses is not only the over-head bar kind (again, which do meet minimum safety standards), but it's over 5 years old. her oldest dd is 7 y.o. and it's the same seat that the oldest used. Now the 18 mo ds is using it too. (child #3)
post #96 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by avent View Post
I can totally see the OP's point about the food, the car seat, not so much.

I think as a society we have moved away from our children's natural inclinations to eat the right foods. And I say this as someone who really struggled to get my son to eat, so I'm not clueless to the frustration and tears of having a child who doesn't eat much.

But I don't understand the "that's all my child will eat" mentality, I really don't. What would you have done 100 years ago then, before blue applesauce and fruit chews and chicken nuggets? I'm really asking. I feel I can never get a good answer to this question IRL from the "that's all I can get my child to eat" mamas. So I'm asking here.

By the way, research done in the 1930s showed a correlation between the nutrition a child receives and their level of criminal activity. I do think having an adequately fed populace, that receives all of the nutrients needed for healthy human life, affects the levels of things like crime and war. I think people are born knowing instinctively what they need to eat (like all animals) and if we don't provide that somewhere inside they know their needs are not being met and it affects how they feel about society and their place in it. On the surface they are gobbling down swirly applesauce and smiling through sticky teeth, but underneath I think they know they're being ripped off.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds!

ETA: Not that this opinion causes me to say anything aloud to other mamas, I think they should do what they want. But I felt I had to address the "my child eats only this" and the "there's a war going on" parts of the discussion.
Struggling with a child to get them to eat something is not the same as a child with a feeding disorder. Let me spell it out for you, so you get it....

My son really WOULD rather starve than eat something he finds tactile defensive. He used to projectile vomit when you put something green in front of him...even green apple sauce. After 2.5 years of feeding therapy, he merely gags and screams until you cover it with a napkin and remove it from his sight. My son cannot chew certain foods, as the textures are repulsive to him to the point it is painful for him to chew them. Also, he does not have the muscle coordination in his mouth/tongue/jaw to chew them. It takes 10 exposures of a food for my son to even touch it. That's TOUCH it. Not actually eat it. 10 exposures means preparing said food 10 times, and eating it in his presence 10 times, at 10 separate meals. 10 exposures only means he'll touch the food or tolerate it in his presence, not actually eat it.

My child, 100 years ago, probably would be dead. Because of his oral motor difficulties, we had extreme nursing problems (and I teach other women how to nurse, so it ain't lack of knowledge or support...it was truly a mechanical problem...). As in after 30 minutes of nursing his total intake was 13cc's (that's approximately 1/3 ounce). As in he literally couldn't suck strong or coordinated enough to get me to make milk or to get enough milk into him without being physically exhausted. The first 3 weeks of his life we used the SNS and supplemented with formula (collective gasp of horror...). 100 years ago, he couldn't have even nursed from a wet nurse because he COULDN'T NURSE, period. Even with the SNS, it took him an hour to take in 30 cc's of formula (that's an ounce). He was exhausted. He burned it off as he took it in.

100 years ago he probably would have had the crap beaten out of him for being "willful" or some other junk. 100 years ago he would have probably choked on the acid he was constantly spitting up from his reflux. 100 years ago he probably would have been shaken because of colic.

So there's your answer. Having a kid who hates broccoli or prefers mickey d's is NOT the same at all as having a child who has a feeding disorder that is sensory and oral-motor based. It's not a "why don't you just...." situation. If I had a nickel for every stinking person who gave me that "why don't you just do xyz" crap, I would be a gazillionaire.

/rant

If you still have a hard time understanding, trot on into the special needs forum and ask the moms there to give you the 411. You'll be veeeeeeeeeeeery educated, trust me.
post #97 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch View Post
Struggling with a child to get them to eat something is not the same as a child with a feeding disorder. Let me spell it out for you, so you get it....
Please read my clarification that I was not talking about kids who have developmental issues, disorders or food allergies. Thanks.
post #98 of 235
I just don't think there is any way to approach her on it that doesn't make you seem judgemental and overbearing. The ONLY suggestion anyone's made that might work is asking the DCP to sponsor a carseat check or something as a service.

I am shocked, though, that your DCP allows children to walk around with and share food. With food allergies and choking hazards, that is JUST NOT DONE in this neck of the woods. Is she licensed?
post #99 of 235
I'm sorry, but unless you are with these families 24/7 how in the name of all that is holy would you know that there's no issues?

It's a little like the people making a stink over (some) poor people feeding their kids Mickey Dee's stuff when it would be "ever so much cheaper" to cook from scratch. And totally being blind to the fact that some people who subsist on stuff like this do so because it's more expensive to run a stove, buy pots and pans, store perishables, ect. than it is to spend $200 for a hamburger and small drink if you've got the $$.

If there were no coloring and sparkles, then likely as not these poor sots would find some other food that you'd look down on to feed their kids. Something quick, sweet, and/or fatty. This is not a new invention. An animal medley nugget is an animal medley nugget regardless of whether it looks like a turd or is stamped into the shape of a dinosaur.

Perhaps the people who buy food with all the bells and whistles would have had servants 100 years ago who would have fed their kids and so they wouldn't have heard them whine. Perhaps their kids would have choked down whatever was on the plate before it was taken by someone else and would have been hungrier after spending 18 hours on a factory floor (or conversely, would have chosen to sleep rather than eat, from exhaustion). Do you or they know in 2007, no, how would you?

100 years ago was 100 years ago. Things have changed a little since then. Why do you feel a need to question someone so snarkily about that, in search of a "good answer"? Considering that most people wouldn't have a clue as to where they'd be on the socio-economic spectrum or indeed where they'd be living at that time (both of which as apparently you're aware of can make VAST differences in what was available/how they'd be able to live), how do you expect them to answer?

If you're going to trash people's food choices, that's fine. But at least have the gonads to actually grab the bull by the horns and trash their food choices directly, instead of asking a question like that. That's intended to make people feel bad, and is largely irrelevant, and if you've done your research you know that. Why hide behind it? I guess it seems a little more "intellectual" to ask it that way, but sheesh. I'm sure most people think it sounds clever, but as I said, I personally would find it irritating because I've had to study the socio-economic/daily life history of American families across the spectrum and it really strikes me as romanticizing things when there's a clear implication that 100 years ago these people would have been forced to make healthier choices. Maybe so, maybe not. Humans eating adulterated garbage has been around since industrialization, so you might want to consider amending your historical question to 200-300 years ago.

Otherwise you run the risk of someone cantankerous like me taking issue with your implied history. ;>
post #100 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by avent View Post
Please read my clarification that I was not talking about kids who have developmental issues, disorders or food allergies. Thanks.
Fine. Good, I'm glad you realize there is a difference. But please take the time to read that even 'normal-looking' kids can have feeding disorders and other stuff that isn't visible to judgemental strangers. My child I'm sure "looks" like he's "just spoiled" or some such b.s.. He's a healthy weight and I have gotten the comment, "oh he's so cute, he can't be autistic" more times than I care to count.

I'm saying this....NOBODY KNOWS WHAT GOES ON IN A STRANGER'S LIFE. To make a snap judgement like that, while totally human, is something people need to learn to temper a little bit. Having a sn child will do that. I no longer look at people doing things and think, "oooh, bad mommy" or whatever. Believe me, I sure as hell used to. Been there, done that. Having been "that" mother that people I'm sure post about on other message boards now, I have a totally new understanding of making snap judgements of strangers based on petty and small things. If you're burning your kid with a cigarette, yeah, I'm gonna think you're a jerk. If you're feeding your kid a steady diet of ho hos and kool aid, I'm gonna cut you some slack, because there could be a million little things going on in your life that I have no clue about.

Just be gentle when judging strangers in your head, that's all I'm saying. Things have happened in peoples' lives that do not always show on the outside.

Rock on, Kitty.
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