Need help with the neighbor's kids. *UPDATE, post 34.* PICTURES ADDED

[North_Of_60]

To understand this situation you sort of need to know how our complexes are laid out. Basically, there are two different complexes on two different streets, that are not in any way related, but do happen to both share a walking path. Both complexes back onto this walking path (which runs between two major blocks, and conjoins two major neighborhoods to the bus route). This path is fairly busy pedestrian thoroughfare.

My mom's townhouse (which I'm staying at for the next month) backs right up to this path. Our fence in the back yard IS the fence along the path. I'd guess that from our patio door to the path is about 35 feet. If that. So not far.

The problem is that there is a group of kids that I'd guess to be between 16-18 who go into the path to smoke, which wafts up into my bedroom window, where I'm sleeping with my 16 month old. And they are not just smoking cigarettes, they are also smoking marijuana (which I don't have a problem with in general, just the manner in which they are going about it).

Last night I took my daughter for a walk up the path to a little park and was DISGUSTED with the amount of cigarette butts and trash (soda cans, cigarette packages, etc) on the path. People also walk their pets along this path.

But most importantly is the fact that it's summer and all our windows are open and I have to lay in bed and be nauseated by the smell of cigarette smoke. (And they're loud and wake DD up. : )

I suspected that they were in the path because where ever they lived didn't appreciate their smoke, either. I was right, but more about that in a minute.

So anyway, tonight I took DD for another walk and it just so happened that they were in the path. I nicely reminded them to pick up their butts as my daughter tries to pick them up (yuck!). One of them said "we always do" in a really rude tone. I matter of factually pointed out that there were an awful lot of butts then. The same kid said "well a lot of people walk along this path". I know for a FACT that the butts come from them, as I see them standing out there several times a day. I can see them from my living room, back yard, garden, and bedroom. The butts ARE theirs! But I agreed and then pointed out that the majority of butts were where they hang out, and to just remember to pick them up. No biggie. Well as I was walking away one of them barked "this isn't your property". I countered "but I have a right to walk on this path and not worry about my child or my dog picking up or ingesting cigarette butts". And then I walked away.

And tonight it was marijuana they were smoking, in broad daylight. In order to get to the park I had to walk my kid past dope smoke. :

Turns out the house they live in is RIGHT next to the little park (the hedges on their back patio offer privacy from the park it's that close), and is about 50 feet from the path. As I was finishing my walk two women passed me and ogled at the baby. I noticed they were walking down the driveway of the house where all the boys went into. I immediately turned around and wanted to talk to them.

I introduced myself and ask if they lived there with a bunch of boys. Turns out one of them lives there and she has two boys, and the rest were all friends. I very nicely explained the problem about them smoking basically under my bedroom window, and that the path is LITTERED with cigarette butts. And then I said "so, what do we do?". I wanted her to know I wasn't mad, but that I just want to find a solution to make everyone happy, like maybe putting an ashtray out there (a bucket of sand is what I used when I smoked).

She was very nice, and very apologetic. She says they smoke there because she won't let them smoke in or around her place, and the other neighbors didn't want them smoking in their "other spot", so now they're in the path.

I also told her that one of them was smoking dope. And the reason I did this is because I think it is in bad taste to flaunt that in the faces of people who, in their own homes, have no choice but to smell it when it wafts in their windows.. short of closing their windows in the middle of summer, I'm sure there are about 4 units all in this corner who can smell them. I have no problems with people smoking, but I take issue when the second hand smoke is forced upon me and, more importantly, my daughter. If they are going to smoke pot, I think they should do it where all the neighbors are not going be forced to smell it, and where there are no kids (they were literally within a stones throw from a PARK).

She seemed really exasperated, like she's been dealing with this for a while now (being a single mom with teenage boys must not be easy). And I'm sure what I told her was nothing new, but I'm also not going to get into a pissing match with a 16 year old, either.

I also feel that some people will be intimidated by a group of teenagers, all dressed in black, a couple with long hair, and smoking dope in a secluded path, enough to not want to walk down it. It makes for a LOOOOONG walk if you go around, and there are a lot of elderly folks in the area (and we're on a hill). They don't bother me, but I can see how a group of 6 or 7 boys might bother someone else.

I feel like a snitch, but I really don't know what the alternative would have been. Gently reminding them to pick up their butts because my daughter wants to pick them up just incited an argument about who's butts they were, so that didn't work. And talking to the mother didn't seem like any revelation, as she'll most likely have to deal with this again, just in another spot.

I'm thinking of posting the city by-laws about loitering, littering, and smoking in public and posting it to the fence in the path. Would a group of teenage boys care about by-laws? Would it make a difference?

What if they come back? What if the mess doesn't improve? Do I call by-law enforcement? The police?

I know a couple of our other neighbors (in our complex) are not thrilled with them hanging out back there and smoking, but tonight, at 6:30 in the evening when there are kids outside playing, I was really upset to go for a walk and bump into 6 kids smoking a joint right next to the park.

What should I do next time? A part of me wants to tell these kids to put their f-ing smokes out and to get away from the park because it's disgusting and really unhealthy to be blowing their smoke onto a PLAYGROUND, and another part of me says to just ignore it and either deal with their mother or just call the police.

What do I do?

[limabean]

I think you've handled it beautifully so far. I say you've done all you reasonably can on your own, and given everyone fair warning -- the next time I smelled pot I'd call the cops.

Edit: I'm a little unclear -- how did your conversation with the mother end? Did she say she would tell them to go elsewhere? (I agree that doesn't ultimately solve the problem, I just can't tell from what you wrote how you left things with her.)

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by limabean

Edit: I'm a little unclear -- how did your conversation with the mother end? Did she say she would tell them to go elsewhere? (I agree that doesn't ultimately solve the problem, I just can't tell from what you wrote how you left things with her.)

She said she'd "talk with them". I think I'm going to wait until I see the boys out there again, then go out with a garbage bag and start picking up garbage. I want them to SEE me doing it. And I want them to hear me talking to my daughter about it. I could go out there right now and have it cleaned up in an hour, but if they see me doing it with my daughter in tow they may be more mindful to clean up after themselves. I may also get a bucket of sand while I'm out today and leave it there for anyone else to put their butts in.

At the end of the end day if that spot is the ONLY place they can go, I can close my window while they have a smoke. But I reaaaaaaally detest my daughter picking up someone's cigarette butts. That just totally grosses me out. I would much prefer they clean the mess and use a bucket, instead of leaving the mess and going somewhere else. I told the mom that, and that's when she said she'd have a talk with them.

So we'll see what happens.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

I respect the mom for standing firm on the "she won't let them smoke in or around her place" point BUT since they are now causing a disturbance she either needs to enforce them finding somewhere else to smoke or allow them to smoke in her yard. Bottom line is they can't be allowed to upset the majority in the community.

PS
I say this as a mother of a teen!

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by StrugglingMomX's2

I respect the mom for standing firm on the "she won't let them smoke in or around her place" point BUT since they are now causing a disturbance she either needs to enforce them finding somewhere else to smoke or allow them to smoke in her yard. Bottom line is they can't be allowed to upset the majority in the community.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I didn't say that, but everytime I see them out there I think "why the heck can't you go smoke in front of your OWN house". :

She touched on the fact that if she made them go elsewhere that they would be motivated to quit. She said in the winter they would stand on the back patio (which is covered) so she made them go elsewhere, thinking that if they had to go out in the rain that they would quit. Well now the weather is nice and they don't have to worry about the rain.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

She touched on the fact that if she made them go elsewhere that they would be motivated to quit. She said in the winter they would stand on the back patio (which is covered) so she made them go elsewhere, thinking that if they had to go out in the rain that they would quit. Well now the weather is nice and they don't have to worry about the rain.

WOW that was pretty naive of her!

[Breathless Wonder]

You could always stick a bucket of sand back there, and stick a few cigarette butts in it. That would at least take care of the butt issue.

[mamaduck]

I think I would go out and tell them straight up to go somewhere else. "Ya'll are waking my baby, and the cigarette smoke is not good for her. Can you move it along, please?"

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

I think I would go out and tell them straight up to go somewhere else. "Ya'll are waking my baby, and the cigarette smoke is not good for her. Can you move it along, please?"

That's what we were doing. They'd put their cigarettes out and then come back again in a few hours. Or, the snotty one would tell us it's public property and that they have a right to be there. That's why I feel like my last two options were to talk with the mother, and if that didn't work, call the police.

So far today they haven't been out there. BUT, it's been raining all day so that may be why. When it's sunny again will be the true test.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

Well are you having a sunny day today? Got an update for us?

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I would also do the "You are disturbing my family" route too.

Explain that while you understand that they need, and deserve a place to hang out, that you also need and deserve a clean place to live with your baby.

Ask them to please look for another hang out. Maybe suggest that they "Share the love" with the other neighbors.

Do your homes have garages? My friends who smoked, smoked in their own garages. Pot too.

If the parents don't care if they smoke pot, I wouldn't care either. In fact, I kinda miss the smell. But, NOT in front of my home. They should be allowed a place of their own.

Maybe Mom should suck it up and let them smoke in her back yard.

edited to add... be as respectful as you can. They will be a lot more likely to honor your request if you are nice (but firm) about it.

Besides, while they are annoying, they may be the first people to help you if you need help.

[North_Of_60]

Update:

Well, it was nice all afternoon. As in not raining, and actually sunny for a while. I was pleasantly surprised to not see or hear them back there, and then all of a sudden, in the last few hours, they were back 3 times in 2 hours. :

They weren't *loud* this time, but I can definitely hear them out there. They're basically standing right under my bedroom window. So I crawled out of bed after getting DD to sleep, put my shoes on, and went out onto the back patio to ask them to move on. He was really good about it (he's the one that lives there.. it's the friend, who doesn't live there, that is snotty). He said "we're just having a quick smoke". I said "I know, that's my bedroom window (and I pointed) and I can smell it, and I can hear you talking. Plus, I have 16 month old daughter who is trying to sleep up there." He said he was really sorry and that they'd leave.

That's all fine and dandy. I was nice, he was nice. I asked them to leave, they said they would. Cool beans.

BUT.. what do I do about the butts (cigarette butts that is)? And, am I going to have to ask them to leave every night?

I've also been looking through our local bylaws, and they are violating 3 that I know of (littering, fire control, and controlled substances). Now, do I tell them that they are breaking these by-laws, and that I'm willing to make a compromise? Or do I just go straight to reporting them? Which I don't want to do. But I also don't want to sound like a broken record.

As for the compromise, I think it would be more then fair for them to smoke out there AS LONG AS they clean up the butts that are already there, and then of course don't leave any more. I would suggest the bucket of sand. Plus, no more night time smoking. I think after 9 pm they need to move on. If they want to go out and chit chat while they smoke, do it on their own property.

Unless the wind catches it at a certain angle, I don't always smell it. But I ALWAYS hear them out there, even if they are being quiet. And, the littering is just disgusting.

So, if they can clean up the mess and stop talking under my window at bedtime I'd be happy. How do I get this message across? And if they don't cooperate, then I report them?

[HeidiAnn67]

I'm confussed on the age of these kids (and I'm just assuming your in the US, I dont really know). If they are under 18 it's illegal to smoke. Never mind that it's illegal to smoke Pot. Personally I would have called the Police.

[North_Of_60]

I'm in Canada, and I'm unsure of the their age. Some of them look really young, and others look much older. I'm guessing between 16-18, though I could be wrong.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

IMO the police have bigger fish to fry then these teens but maybe calling bylaw on them is an option, nothing like a good fine! I still stand by leaning on the mom to have the boys stay within her backyard!

PS
I could be wrong but the police won't do anything about *a* joint.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by StrugglingMomX's2

IMO the police have bigger fish to fry then these teens

I agree. And unless they do a stake out in my yard to *catch* them back there, it will be their word against ours. Same goes for the by-law I guess, but in the case of getting money from a fine they may be motived to enforce it. Who knows.

I could be wrong but the police won't do anything about *a* joint.

Back in my youth *a* joint with a MINOR was a huge deal. I don't know about know. As an adult I doubt they'd care, but underage kids smoking in public used to be a huge deal.

[alaskaberry]

saw this in new posts, wanted to put in my 2 cents

here's an idea: next time they are smoking, go out there and tell them you are collecting donations for a window fan (to keep the smoke *out*, not suck it back in). If you're grown-up enough to smoke, at least be responsible enough to not poison other people while you're doing it. I agree with the sand bucket idea and picking up the trash in front of them. Of course, they may just keep on littering to spite you.

[shelbean91]

Can you put out an ashtray or bucket of sand? Of course, it's not (shouldn't be) your responsibility, but they might get the hint. In the retirement community where my MIL lives, there are quite a few yards who have containers for butts so people walking by don't just throw them.

[choli]

The only problem with the ashtray idea is that it might encourage them to smoke in that location. You might try putting an ashtray at another less disturbing location and see if it works to move them.

[menudo]

If they are under 18 it's illegal to smoke.

Not in the USA. It is illegal for a minor to PURCHASE cigarettes and it is illegal for someone to intentionally purchase cigarettes for a minor but it is completely LEGAL for a minor to posses cigarettes and smoke them.

Most of my teen cousins have been caught with MJ and alcohol. None of them got in any real trouble even though the law states they can even lose there driving privilege until age 21-just for being caught with alcohol!