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Catholic Question: I'm so confused about missals

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
I can't figure out all the different missals. I'm getting that the 1962 missal means that it has the new Vatican 2 mass in it. But then there are the weekday missals and the Sunday missals and then there are those little paperback ones sold at the parish bookstore that appear to be ones just for this year? And then some of them are divided up and only cover different times of year. And then I was reading online and there seems to be debate over the publishers of the missals.

I'm so confused. :
post #2 of 33
The church year is divided into "seasons" and the days have certain kinds of themes (a saint, perhaps or something else) associated with them. The scriptural readings and some of the prayers for the Mass of the day will be tailored to the day in question and sometimes there will be alternatives for the priest to choose from. So there will be weekday and Sunday missals that change over time and the paperback ones are usually thrown away (or recycled) when we are done with the season they refer to.

Some people, children especially, will also have a sort of general missal that refers to the prayers in the Mass that don't change (or to the standard alternatives that are fixed; so it will have the Nicene Creed and the Apostle's Creed, one being a shorter version of the other). And missals will also sometimes have prayers and things related to sacraments like Marriage, Reconciation and such and to Masses outside of the season, like a funeral mass.

I have heard that a good thick paper back missal also makes a good pillow.
post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
ok thanks.

one more question, if it says Latin rite it doesn't mean it's in Latin, correct? It is referring to Latin rite as in not Eastern rite Catholic?

Rookie here, I'm still learning the terminology.
post #4 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
ok thanks.

one more question, if it says Latin rite it doesn't mean it's in Latin, correct? It is referring to Latin rite as in not Eastern rite Catholic?

Rookie here, I'm still learning the terminology.
Yes. correct. It can be in Latin or in the vernacular.
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
I can't figure out all the different missals. I'm getting that the 1962 missal means that it has the new Vatican 2 mass in it. But then there are the weekday missals and the Sunday missals and then there are those little paperback ones sold at the parish bookstore that appear to be ones just for this year? And then some of them are divided up and only cover different times of year. And then I was reading online and there seems to be debate over the publishers of the missals.

I'm so confused. :
I am sorry to tell you that Unagidon anwered your question incorrectly.

There are two different Masses in the Catholic Church:

The Novus Ordo Missae (Latin for New Order Mass) - promulgated in 1970 by Pope Paul VI. Here (click) is a Missal. This Mass is said in the vernacular (the local language) or in Latin (rarely), but it is NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH.....

The Tradtional Latin Mass - soemtimes called the "Tridentine" Latin Mass, which was used by the Church from the days of the Apostles, and was codified in 1570 at the Council of Trent (hence, the name "Tridentine") by Pope St. Pius V.

There are two ENTIRELY different liturgical calendars, and entirely different Missals in the Church.

The Novus Ordo liturgical calendar and Missal are what you will find in virtually every Catholic Church around wherever you live. Also, another obvious "visual" difference if you are not familiar with the Catholic Church, is that the priest faces THE PEOPLE in the Novus Ordo Mass.

In the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), it is said ONLY in Latin - NEVER in the vernacular. The priest ceases the Mass before the Nicene Creed for his sermon, and at that point he will read the Epistle and the Gospel in English, then the Mass continues. Also, the in the TLM the priest faces the altar, NOT the people.

The Missal used is from 1962, and there are a couple of editions, such as the Marian Missal, the St. Jospeh's Missal, and the St. Andrew's Missal (click links).

And for your question regarding the rite of the Church and it's nomenclature, the entire Western Church is called the "Latin Rite." So, both the old Traditional Latin Mass and the newer Novus Ordo Mass (whether said in a vernacular language or in Latin) are part of the Western Church and what is known as the Latin Rite. Latin is the official language of the Western Church. The use of Latin, as a dead language, insures unity and uniformity in faith and practice.

The Eastern Church is part of the Catholic Church that subscribes to the same dogmas and doctrines, and recognizes the same Sovereign Pontiff, but uses other ancient languages for their Masses. The Eastern Church includes the Byzantines, Syrians, Copts, Ethiopians, Chaldeans, Armenians, Malabarese, and Maronites.
post #6 of 33
Thread Starter 
Ok that is why I got confused. First off the only Mass I've ever been to was the Tridentine Mass ( I am not actually Catholic and I specifically chose this mass to attend for my first time going) and no Missals were provided. I've been looking at Missals online and keep seeing the St Joseph so I thought it was the one currently being used at the standard post Vatican II Mass in English. Sadly I don't seem to see much info describing the different Missals online, I guess they assume you know already

Thanks for the info.
post #7 of 33
You're welcome.

THe Latin Mass Missals I linked to are all the same except for slight differences in layout.

I find the Marian Missal the easiest to use - especially if you are a beginner - because the Latin is on the left page, and the corresponding English is on the right page, so it is easy to follow the translation visually with your eyes.
post #8 of 33
Actually, in the old traditional Mass, the gospel and epistle are read in Latin, and them (sometimes) translated for the congregation before the sermon. And depending on which traditional Mass you go to, there are several editions of the Latin Mass available. There is the Mass of Pius V (which is the oldest form of the Latin Mass that I am aware is still being celebrated), a 1962 version and then a version which was issued after Vatican II but before the Novus Ordo was established.

Most of the traditional Latin masses being offered by parished in union with the Church are either the 1962 version or the newest one, although I think that the institutional Church prefers the last one.

Now that the Pope has authorized the Latin Mass without the local bishop's permission, I'm not sure which edition is the one that he is authorizing.
post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunmomma View Post
Actually, in the old traditional Mass, the gospel and epistle are read in Latin, and them (sometimes) translated for the congregation before the sermon. And depending on which traditional Mass you go to, there are several editions of the Latin Mass available. There is the Mass of Pius V (which is the oldest form of the Latin Mass that I am aware is still being celebrated), a 1962 version and then a version which was issued after Vatican II but before the Novus Ordo was established.

Most of the traditional Latin masses being offered by parished in union with the Church are either the 1962 version or the newest one, although I think that the institutional Church prefers the last one.

Now that the Pope has authorized the Latin Mass without the local bishop's permission, I'm not sure which edition is the one that he is authorizing.
Yes, the priest always reads the Epistle and Gospel in a low tone at the altar in Latin, but he reads it again in English for the congregation after the Mass has stopped, and before he begins his sermon. This is generally done only on Sundays, and usually not at daily Masses.

There are not "several editions" of the Traditional Latin Mass. The Mass of 1570 codified by Pope St. Pius V does not differ fundamentally in any way from the 1962 Missal. There were some small changes made in between the years 1950 and 1962, but all TLM's in any Catholic diocese must use the 1962 Roman Missal, as stated in the Pope's motu proprio.
post #10 of 33
Yes, but there are dioceses who, until the newest proclamation, did not have permission from the bishop. In many of those dioceses, churches not affiliated with the local dioces sprang up, offering the older "forms" (and I'm not going to debate the changes. Suffice it to say that there have been long and wordy debates about the meanings of the changes in the Mass For example, in the 1962 Roman Canon, some of the names of the saints (particularly St. Joseph) were left out.)

And I have been to many an approved Latin (Sunday) Mass where the gospel was in fact NOT reread in English. I think it is the choice of the presiding priest.
post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunmomma View Post
Yes, but there are dioceses who, until the newest proclamation, did not have permission from the bishop. In many of those dioceses, churches not affiliated with the local dioces sprang up, offering the older "forms" (and I'm not going to debate the changes. Suffice it to say that there have been long and wordy debates about the meanings of the changes in the Mass For example, in the 1962 Roman Canon, some of the names of the saints (particularly St. Joseph) were left out.)

And I have been to many an approved Latin (Sunday) Mass where the gospel was in fact NOT reread in English. I think it is the choice of the presiding priest.

Hmmm.. I did not kow that. I've been to TLM's all over the USA, but never to any "unapproved" ones using a pre-1962 Missal. All the Masses I have attended have been Indult Masses or SSPX Masses, who use the 1962 Missal as well.

Also, I have never been to an Indult or SSPX parish where the priest did not read the Epistle & Gospel in English on a Sunday, but I guess it's possible. It's definitely not read in English at daily Masses.
post #12 of 33
This website (Halo Works) offers missals and seems to have good explanations of what's what. They sent out an informative email a few weeks ago on choosing a Missal, but I can't seem to find it...

http://www.halo-works.com/c=Pcue40re...egory/missals/

ETA: I just found the email (thought I'd deleted it) with the explanations of the different Missals:

Which Missal do I Want??
What missal will suit my needs? This question has been a popular one in the past week or so. To help you decide, you need to know a few things:

1) The St. Andrew is out of print until Fall, and so we'll not have it until its next printing....so this one doesn't count for the Q/A here.

2) The St. Joseph and the New Marian are essentially the same missal. Both are basic, with more of the "cut and dried" aspect meant for the simpler method of attending to the Mass. Both have the same artwork, the same basic font, and basically the same layout--though the St. Joseph puts the Ordinary at the first part of the missal--and both have ribbon markers. Neither has the readings in Latin/English.

Differences: 2A)The New Marian is a 1957 Mass with the 1945 Holy
Week put in instead of the 1957. It is also leather bound
hardcover, in your choice of black or white. No music in the back. 2 ribbons. White edged
pages.

2B)The St. Joseph has more ribbons, is the 1953 Mass (no significant
difference there) has music in the back but has a cloth
hardbound cover. Red edged pages or gilt.

3)The Daily Roman Missal, 1962 (Priestly Fraternity) is extremely complete. It has a softbound moroccan cover, gilt edged pages and 6 ribbons. The content has a very good catechism about the Mass--why we say "Amen", what the significance is to different parts of the Mass, etc. Music in the back. Devotionals to different Saints as well as prayers to say before and after Communion as well as Mass. Extremely complete and easy to use for either the beginner or the "old hand". It has the readings in Latin/English.

4) The New Roman Daily Missal, 1962 (Angelus Press) Extremely complete with all the parts of the Mass, Saints' days, devotions before and after Communion, etc. Not quite as easy to use as the Priestly Fraternity missal, but a good missal and one preferred by some of the Priestly Fraternity priests. Doesn't have the instructions that the other missal does, is really for those who are more aware of what they're doing. Leather bound softcover, gilt edged pages, and 5 ribbons. It has the readings in Latin/English.
post #13 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks for searching for the email, I do appreciate it.
post #14 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
Thanks for searching for the email, I do appreciate it.
You're welcome. If you attend a parish where the women tend to wear headcoverings, definitely check out Halo Works. They've got lovely lace ones. Most of the women in my Orthodox parish wear them and I've shared this website with our women. The soft tulle ones are not scratchy (I HATE scratchy lace).
post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd View Post
The soft tulle ones are not scratchy (I HATE scratchy lace).
Me too! It snags on everything - my clothes, my ring, my kids! I will have to check out those tulle chapel veils.
post #16 of 33
Thread Starter 
Well we moved recently so I have to find a new place to go now. I noticed on the Diocese website there is only one Tridentine Mass in my city per week and it's on Sunday. We actually had 4 churches with them on different days each week in my old city, but some of them were too far to drive to. I'm not sure how often I'll be able to go, I don't think it's that close to me. I did notice headcovers were popular at the one I had gone to.
post #17 of 33
Arduinna,

Here's something else for you. A friend sings at St. John Cantius in Chicago (she's not Catholic, but loves the music). This church is almost all Latin Masses (both Tridentine & Novus Ordo). I went to their website thinking they might have Missal info. They sure do!

http://www.cantius.org/webstore/Missal.htm

All readings in both English & Latin (Douay-Rheims Bible for English Scripture readings), morning & evening prayers, etc.

Plus, Missal purchases from them support the parish.

www.cantius.org is the parish website. Think you'd enjoy looking at it.
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Sorry I didn't get back sooner.

Something with English and Latin on facing pages would probably be best as my Latin is pathetic.

about this:

Quote:
Most of the traditional Latin masses being offered by parished in union with the Church are either the 1962 version or the newest one, although I think that the institutional Church prefers the last one.
I noticed a few additional places listed in the phone book that offer the TLM but they are not listed on the Diocese website. Does that mean they aren't in union with the church? I'm just now finding out about Old Catholic Church and other groups. I always thought that a Catholic Church was a Catholic church and now I'm :
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
One more question, in the Novus Ordo ( because I have no idea if it isn't in the TLM or not) mass there is a part where the priest talks about prayers for the world. I've noticed it often includes prayers for the Middle East, for our troops, and one for leaders of prosperous nations to care for their citizens living in poverty ect. Seems like there standard prayers included and then the priest adds ones that are pertinent for the time and place.

Can anyone tell me what part of the mass that is? I don't have a missal at home yet and I tried finding in the How To Book of the Mass but I couldn't find the part.
post #20 of 33
Is it the responsorial psalm?

The priest or readers say something like "We pray that ....."

And then the congregation responds "Lord hear our prayer."
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