Sodium Ascorbate - Page 19

[mammom]

bump

[leomom]

Mammom, thanks for the link to this...just finished reading it after 3 hours...: ....off to read the nutrition/immunity thread!

[Panserbjorne]

MT-IIRC you mentioned Natural Factors Vitamin C chews. My kiddos adore them, is there any reason not to use these exclusively? I haven't finished doing some searching on it's effect on tooth enamel. I have the SA powder, but we travel quite a bit...it's easier to give them the chews on the road. Please excuse me if this has already been asked and answered.

[leomom]

Originally Posted by firefaery

MT-IIRC you mentioned Natural Factors Vitamin C chews. My kiddos adore them, is there any reason not to use these exclusively? I haven't finished doing some searching on it's effect on tooth enamel. I have the SA powder, but we travel quite a bit...it's easier to give them the chews on the road. Please excuse me if this has already been asked and answered.

From what I remember, this is what MT uses for travel. I think the expense is the main reason not to use them exclusively, but I could be missing something...don't know how they affect enamel...

[Panserbjorne]

Rats. Just found a reason. They aren't GF. That's a buncha wasted $.

[leomom]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Rats. Just found a reason. They aren't GF. That's a buncha wasted $.

GF? I'm sure it's desperately obvious....

[Ex Libris]

Gluten free for those who're allergic or sensitive to wheat.

[leomom]

Of course...thank you! I knew it was obvious!

[Panserbjorne]

Sorry! Sometimes I live in my own little celiac world... I forget other people don't have to think about it. I guess I'm still interested in the answer to the original question anyway for others who can still use the product. All I can find is that it is harmful to enamel.

[Just_Isabel]

Someone please tell me more about Momtezuma's revenge... I want to find out if my gut is upset because of too much SA or because of the iron supplement I'm taking. And I don't want to risk going through this again just to find out - I don't like being experimented on, not even by myself .

So please, anyone who's had experience with M's revenge, tell me all about it. :

(I didn't even take that much SA today, propaply about 500 mg... but my stomach was feeling kind of upset yesterday already - does SA accumulate in the body?)

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

[MammaV]

THis is a great thread. Just wanted to add that my kids love emergen-C. They eat it straight out of the packet and think it's candy. They also think it's pop when mixed with cool water.
Does anyone know about a natural source, not made in a lab source of SA? Does that exist? So many supplements are not made with natural ingredients, just the lab grown stuff. I don't like to put chemicalized supplements in me or my kids. Thanks.
And no, I didn't check out the emergen-C.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by provocativa

MT you mentioned earlier dosing extra iron during suspected viral infections, but my reading indicates that bacteria flourish in an iron rich environment, so if the chance of secondary bacterial infection is significant, extra iron would give those guys too much of a leg up.

If I said that, put a link up please, because that is not what I meant to say, or meant to have it interpretted.

The iron balance is something that's a very fine balance. If you do a google search using Iron + infection, you will see that not enough iron, and you are susceptible to infection, and too much, and as you say, bacteria can have a field day.

Except diphtheria. Diptheria toxin cannot make mayhem until the iron is depleted, so there are "exceptions" to the rule. I suspect the same may also apply to other bacteria which are "operated" by a virus called bacteriophages, which switch on toxin producing genes as well, but I can't find much on the others.

Someone who never progresses to a sinus infection might be fine.

I guess it depends on the person. This year is the first year I've missed three periods, so had the gaps stretch out, and its the first year where I've finally lost the tag of chronic anaemia.

If there is anything bacterial around, I'm a moving target, but then, with my immune system, that's probably not surprising.

This info is from my breastfeeding research, either Hale or Newman, iron supplemented formula is the reason many ff infants get fussy, b/c their gut flora is bad and then the iron helps the baddies to multiply. Another reason to have a probiotic food at every meal. . .

Yes, I agree with that. And another reason not to use formula which has a much higher protein index than breastmilk, and that feeds the badies too.

Minerals really are key to immune function and fighting viruses, in the US over 50% of soils are selenium deficient, selenium helps the body fight viruses.

Do you have an updated map of selenium deficiency in USA? This is the only one I could find, and its out of date. If you know where there is a newer one, can you post it?

http://www.saanendoah.com/map1.html

Mustard is a great food source of selenium, and good for a cold, too.

Yeah, but I couldn't eat enough mustard to do me much good.

Don't know specific soil deficiencies in NZ,

All our soils are deficient so I take 150 mcgs a day, when I can't get brazil nuts.

of course, also I don't know what colloidal minerals you bought, pp,

Ones that are designed for our soil deficiencies, not yours...

I have taken different concentrace products, and have had the best results with their sea minerals with silver, as far as my immune system goes (dds as well). It is more of a food supplement, with sea vegetables and the like, which are also natural chelators via their iodine content etc. But I'm landlocked so maybe I also needed sea nutrients more. But I have had herpes simplex mouth sores since my mid-20s, whenever I get stressed and they were chronic when I was pg with my first. Fast forward to second pg, and didn't have a one when I was on the sea minerals, except when i got poor and didn't order them. at the first sign of high stress an ugly one popped up on my lip. anecdotal, i know, but i also find that if we're on the sea minerals and get a cold starting, a little homeopathic aconite clears it up, if we're not on them, fighting the cold takes ALOT more work. DD1 is 3, and she takes them. DD2 is only 5 months but I will give them to her when she is old enough to eat with no fears. I hate that they work so well for us because they are expensive.

If you've read the nutrition/immunology thread, you will know that I hammer minerals

I think you all are getting gassy with the extra SA because you are having a Herxheimer reaction, and killing off some candida albicans and other bad flora- (possibly some good flora too) yeasties release gas when they die. Some enzyme supplementation would help with the die-off (see www.enzymestuff.com ).

Yes, but it might not just be yeast, but also some of the other anaerobes, and lack of sulphur...

Re: vitamin c and pregnancy, too little will result in a weak amniotic sac. too much can result in extra bleeding during childbirth.

Where does that come from? It took my midwife three contractions with a brand new pair of scissor, which were blunted to cut through the leather than was my amniotic sac with the last labour? Yes, I bled more, but that was from the damage they did in my uterus in the first birth.

That's from a scholarly article i read at www.naturalchilbirth. org I think. . . i would consider the miscarriage risk would be less with sodium ascorbate considering the aforementioned chemistry.

That is pretty stupid really, because vitamin C is the base foundation of glucosamine absorption and collagen, and skin protection. Without vitamin C, none of those three things will have good strength. Therefore, for the natural birth people to suggest that, flies in the face of all the known biochemistry that goes along with vitamin C.

:

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by Just_Isabel

Someone please tell me more about Momtezuma's revenge... I want to find out if my gut is upset because of too much SA or because of the iron supplement I'm taking. And I don't want to risk going through this again just to find out - I don't like being experimented on, not even by myself .

I never take iron supplements as they always upset my stomach majorly.

So please, anyone who's had experience with M's revenge, tell me all about it. :

I'm not into revenge

(I didn't even take that much SA today, propaply about 500 mg... but my stomach was feeling kind of upset yesterday already - does SA accumulate in the body?)

I'd quit that iron formulation and find a better one. I use one that dairy farmers use on cows that's based on blackstrap molasses. Tastes foul, so it must be good for me

The problem might be your gut flora, because if its out of balance more towards gram negative, (or yeast) then you have have a growling orchestra.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by firefaery

MT-IIRC you mentioned Natural Factors Vitamin C chews. My kiddos adore them, is there any reason not to use these exclusively? I haven't finished doing some searching on it's effect on tooth enamel. I have the SA powder, but we travel quite a bit...it's easier to give them the chews on the road. Please excuse me if this has already been asked and answered.

No. The reason I can't, is that they come from Canada, and by the time they get here, they are hugely expensive.

[mombh]

O.K. ...I have 2 question for now ???

ds 3 1/2 has been coughing for about +- 6 weeks now , in the begining he had a cold then croupy cough and then ear infection. I have been giving him SA throughout and also gve him some silver 100 for a few days till ear infection was better ....everything improved and even the cough seemed to be less and then I slacked off the SA and cough returned strong and very chesty "flemy" kinda sounding cough and on and off a clear runny nose.
was wondering if this could be pertussis and since he was being dosed with SA he didn't develop traditional "woop"????
he has many food allergies including gluten and at first I thought maybe it was something chronic co's of some snuck in gluten and also he was eating a lot of dairy ...but I took the dairy out am careful about gluten and he has not had any tummy troubles.....and also not reached bowel tolerence with the SA I was giving him about about 6 - 8 grams a day which I think is more than the recommended 250 / kg ... should I have given /give more????

lastly... I saw MT that you mentioned something about not enough sulphur??? what is that ??? and how do we increase our sulphur??

TIA

[Just_Isabel]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

The iron balance is something that's a very fine balance. If you do a google search using Iron + infection, you will see that not enough iron, and you are susceptible to infection, and too much, and as you say, bacteria can have a field day.

So how do we know when we have the right amount? What signs would our bodies show that we are getting just enough?
(Does Pfeiffer talk about this in the Mental & Elemental Nutr. book? I just ordered it yesterday. )

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I never take iron supplements as they always upset my stomach majorly.

I stopped taking them the day after they made my stomach more upset than it's ever been since I can remember myself. :
Now I'm pretty sure it was the iron suppl. and not the Vit C that upset my gut.

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I'm not into revenge

I meant what happens when you take too much Vit C. I think you called that "Momtezuma's revenge" yourself somewhere:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I'd quit that iron formulation and find a better one. I use one that dairy farmers use on cows that's based on blackstrap molasses. Tastes foul, so it must be good for me

I think I'll first try to get it through food - I started eating red meat (was vegetarian before), and I'll try to always have some SA before eating iron rich foods to help with absorption.
If that doesn't work, I will try another iron supplement, but I googled the one I got and it seems to be one of the best.

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

The problem might be your gut flora, because if its out of balance more towards gram negative, (or yeast) then you have have a growling orchestra.

Gram negative like high pHs, right? Can I assume my gut is acidic if my urine is? And I've been drinking plenty of kefir, so I'm hoping I'll have them in my gut in enough numbers to protect me from too much of the "bad" microorganisms.


I'm starting to think that I need to learn more medicine than a medicine student just to figure these things out.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by mombh

O.K. ...I have 2 question for now ???

ds 3 1/2 has been coughing for about +- 6 weeks now , in the begining he had a cold then croupy cough and then ear infection. I have been giving him SA throughout and also gve him some silver 100 for a few days till ear infection was better ....everything improved and even the cough seemed to be less and then I slacked off the SA and cough returned strong and very chesty "flemy" kinda sounding cough and on and off a clear runny nose.
was wondering if this could be pertussis and since he was being dosed with SA he didn't develop traditional "woop"????

The characteristic of SA, is that if you give it right, the cough will be the same length, but far far less in severity. The test is always to go off it, and if the cough increases in severity then it could be whooping cough, but this is only definitive in kids with no other definable problems.

With my kids after about 6 weeks, they didn't want to take it any more, so I just went and let them not and they were back within 48 hours wanting vitamin c, and within 8 hours we had it back under control. If there is suspicion that it is whooping cough then the full "old wives tale" quota of 100 days cough, should apply and apart from kiddy truculance, I'd only monitor diarrhoea levels up to that point, and then i'd start reducing it, and see what happened.

he has many food allergies including gluten and at first I thought maybe it was something chronic co's of some snuck in gluten and also he was eating a lot of dairy ...but I took the dairy out am careful about gluten and he has not had any tummy troubles.....and also not reached bowel tolerence with the SA I was giving him about about 6 - 8 grams a day which I think is more than the recommended 250 / kg ... should I have given /give more????

I think you need to talk to someone like Jane S, because my experience doesn't extend to kids with food allergies.

Obviously what you were doing before, was "working" for whatever it was, and if there is a possibility it is whooping cough, I'd put him back on it.

lastly... I saw MT that you mentioned something about not enough sulphur??? what is that ??? and how do we increase our sulphur??

TIA

Go the the nutrition/immunology stickered thred and using the search this thread function, type in sulphur. See if I put something on that in there....

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Just Isabel, I'll be back later to answer your post. I have a thumping head and can't think more than I've just thunk.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by Just_Isabel

The iron balance is something that's a very fine balance. If you do a google search using Iron + infection, you will see that not enough iron, and you are susceptible to infection, and too much, and as you say, bacteria can have a field day.

So how do we know when we have the right amount? What signs would our bodies show that we are getting just enough?
(Does Pfeiffer talk about this in the Mental & Elemental Nutr. book? I just ordered it yesterday. )

Yes, there is a lot in that book, but as adults we know by how we feel, the colour of our nails and insides of the eyelids.

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I never take iron supplements as they always upset my stomach majorly.

I stopped taking them the day after they made my stomach more upset than it's ever been since I can remember myself. :
Now I'm pretty sure it was the iron suppl. and not the Vit C that upset my gut.

Some people get diarrhoa, and with some people (like me) it constipated them and they get headaches and double vision.

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I'm not into revenge

I meant what happens when you take too much Vit C. I think you called that "Momtezuma's revenge" yourself somewhere:

Yeah, someone else did as a joke. The proper name for travellers diarrhoea is Montezuma's Revenge. Different person

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I'd quit that iron formulation and find a better one. I use one that dairy farmers use on cows that's based on blackstrap molasses. Tastes foul, so it must be good for me

I think I'll first try to get it through food - I started eating red meat (was vegetarian before), and I'll try to always have some SA before eating iron rich foods to help with absorption.

I do it mainly through food, and my instincts seem to work pretty well, but in the middle of winter I usually go for some cow lick

If that doesn't work, I will try another iron supplement, but I googled the one I got and it seems to be one of the best.

It can be the best in the world and still make someone sick.

Pycnogenol, is something a lot of people swear by, and get great results on. Me? It gives me excrutiating arthritis in the hips.

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

The problem might be your gut flora, because if its out of balance more towards gram negative, (or yeast) then you have have a growling orchestra.

Gram negative like high pHs, right?

Gram negatives like excess protein, which creates alkaline faeces around 7.0 - 8.0 and those are the conditions gram negatives like

Can I assume my gut is acidic if my urine is?

I probably would assume that, but I'd also go by the consistency and frequency of what you do down the toilet. It should be soft, and ideally, float.

And I've been drinking plenty of kefir, so I'm hoping I'll have them in my gut in enough numbers to protect me from too much of the "bad" microorganisms.

You have to have acidophilus as well, and kefir doesn't have much of that in it. I make a probiotic yoghurt, and have yakult. I mix the kefir with the yoghurt when I eat it, and use the yakult as the "milk" on top. Might be what you call the shotgun approach.

I'm starting to think that I need to learn more medicine than a medicine student just to figure these things out.

Wrong. The med student never learns any of this, so you already know more than your doctor does