No Cry Sleep Solution Support Thread....

[prettypixels]

Are any other mamas in the middle of trying the NCSS's tips to improve baby's sleep? Maybe we could discuss here what is working, what is not, etc... Personally I feel like every time I take one baby step forward, I take two big ones backwards! And I am *tired!* Anyone else?

My baby is 6.5 months old, and currently wakes about every hour at night. I have low milk supply, so she is bottle nursed over night, but I swear she eats just like a 100% breastfed baby! I am doing the Pantley Pull Off, a bedtime routine, trying to make nights and naps obviously different, using a womb bear, and developing key words. I'm also planning to start using a crib for parts of the night, as her restless turning is keeping me up (and we have a king bed).

I've only been doing it for a few days so far, but some progress... two days ago she took a two hour nap without waking once! Now if I could just have a few two/three hour stretches at night...

Anyways it would be nice if we could encourage each other.... if there are other moms out there doing the same thing???

[bdoody11]

I've just started reading it. If we decide to try a plan perhaps I'll join back in.

Good luck to all the mamas trying to get more sleep!

[earthgirl]

I've read that book about 3 times now. Currently, I am doing routines for nap and bedtime. You know, it's easier to post what I'm not doing. I'm not using a lovey, doing the Pantley pull-off or, putting DD down drowsy. I just can't bring myself to pull DD off my breast and there is no drowsy. My DD seems to be in 2 states: asleep or wide awake! Personally, I don't have problems w/ her night wakings. My big problem is getting her to nap for more than 30 minutes. And more recently it's been taking a while to get her down for the night. That's actually what prompted me to read the book again. Anyway, I'm on day 4 of trying to stick to a routine and have seen ZERO improvement. I'll keep trying though. Hopefully I'll be back w/ a positive update!

[prettypixels]

Thanks for posting! I have read it like three times too, I keep rereading it hoping for more insight! I don't mind waking a few times a night, but I do mind waking HOURLY and then having one solid hour of wide awake time at 2am. I'm just exhausted. She seems fine though!

I just noticed btw that the majority of her "test mommies" are reporting excellent results after a month or longer... so that's part of why I was thinking of a thread for support... it's a long time to keep at it!

[Aletheia]

Ok,weird, weird, weird.

I was going to go to bed early. It's 8:30 here right now. But I thought, no, I need to bolster myself against the crazy that is happening here right now as we are in the second week of trying to get 11 month old Gooby to sleep for longer than 2 hours at a time at night and not wake up to play for 2 or sometimes 3 hour stretches in the middle of the night. I thought, I'm going to get on MDC and post a support thread for folks working on breaking the nurse to sleep association. And what do you know? The thread is already up and running.

So.... I'm joining, and inviting others to join by sharing the following info.

The Problem: After 11 months of only getting an occasional 3 hour stretch of sleep, and the recent development of a) fighting bedtime and b) waking to play in the middle of the night, I am ANGRY. I am resentful of my child. I am snappy to my husband. I've even kicked the cat. I have been the very picture of patience until this last month, but I am pretty much always one yawn away from crazy. I should note too that we EC at night, and that what used to be considered a success is now a huge stumbling block: he wakes to pee, but only nurses to sleep. It's a wake, pee, eat, sleep, wake to pee again cycle.

The Ideal: 2 months from now I would like.... I'd love to get at least 1 five hour stretch of uninterrupted sleep while lying next to my Gooby, who has not shed his body weight in tears to get to that point. That's all I want. Oh, and easier bedtimes and no bouncing, chattering elf pulling my hair at 2:30 a.m. Is that so much to ask?

The Tactics:

1. DH puts Gooby to bed, and handles any wakings until my bedtime. Unless the fussing is desperate, I try not to intervene. How we handle pottying at this time is still unclear.
2. So I'm trying to stick with full feedings at bedtime, 11, 3, and 6, upon waking. At 11 and 3 I hope to be able to feed him sitting up and then lie him down before he is out cold. Hahahaha. The reason we for the time being still have two feedings scheduled is... well, not a good one. I just have a hard time believing he can go that long without eating. I'm probably shooting myself in the foot.
3. Nightwakings in between these times are minimum boobed wakings; I try to do the Pantley pull off. Last night we did this for AN HOUR before I gave up, and then he was AWAKE AWAKE AWAKE.
4. If he does not settle with the Pantley pull off, I get up and walk him. Waking the workaday DH to walk him is a last resort, but comes in handy when I am so mad that I have to go throw rocks at the backyard.
5. I should add that we have a consistent early bedtime and routine, and naps are not usually a problem, though we may be starting to have only 1 nap a day.

So there it is, our plan. Comments? Suggestions?

I'm wishing you all out there luck tonight, and hoping for some for myself as well.

[earthgirl]

Originally Posted by Aletheia

Ok,weird, weird, weird.

[*]Nightwakings in between these times are minimum boobed wakings; I try to do the Pantley pull off. Last night we did this for AN HOUR before I gave up, and then he was AWAKE AWAKE AWAKE.[*] If he does not settle with the Pantley pull off, I get up and walk him. Waking the workaday DH to walk him is a last resort, but comes in handy when I am so mad that I have to go throw rocks at the backyard.


So there it is, our plan. Comments? Suggestions?

I'm wishing you all out there luck tonight, and hoping for some for myself as well.

nak
this is why i'm scared to do the pull-off. lately it's really hard to get dd down for the night. i can't imagine throwing in something that's going to make it worse, even if it's just temporary.

good luck to you!

[nylecoj]

I am also crazy tired and angry/resentful of pretty much all living beings at the moment.

We have an EXTREMELY consistent bedtime routine - down to the same three books in the same freaking order.

I am developing a routine (shorter, of course) for naps and I'm putting dd on a sort of schedule where we have quiet hours to encourage napping. She still wakes up from her naps after about 40 minutes but if I rock her or hold her quietly she'll fall back asleep for another 40 after about half an hour or so.

The other day she napped for over 200 minutes! (Oh yeah, I've created a sleep journal) Normally she naps for a total of 90 in a day.

Night time has not really changed at all except that now it takes her about 45 minutes to go down (even though she's showing obvious signs of being tired) instead of 15. She still wakes up anywhere between 5 and 6 times in a 10-12 hour period.

Oh yeah, she's 7 mos old and has been going through a ton developmentally in the past month, but she's never been a very easy sleeper. Getting closer to walking, so I hope once she's got that down she'll sleep. Please. PLEASE.

SUMMARY:
Wake up 6:30-ish
1st nap: 8:30-9:15
Rock/hold: 9:15-9:45
Sleep: 9:45-10:20

Repeat those steps between 1:00 and 3:00 pm.

Bedtime routine starts around 6:30 generally.
Read, rock, nurse, rock until 7 or 8 depending on the night.

[Subliime]

I'm so glad I found this thread. When I started our routine 10 days ago I saw immediate improvements. She seriously went from waking every 1-2 hrs to sleeping one 4-5 hr stretch plus a 3 hr stretch and then a 2 hr stretch every night for a few nights. Now that it's time to do another sleep journal it's back to every hour b/c of teething. Come on now. Anyways, I have been trying the PPO and it was working at first but not the past few nights. Does anyone know if teething is causing this?

[snt88]

I'm in a similar boat. And starting to feel VERY tired and VERY frustrated.

I used some NCSS tactics a while ago (successfuly), and I just ordered my own copy, instead of taking it out of the library for the 3rd time. I moved bedtime earlier and developed routines, and I sing the same bedtime song as a sleep cue. That seemed good for a while, but now my almost 8 month old is waking more and more at night, and not going to sleep in the evening.

I was starting the Pantley Pull-Off, but now that things have gotten so bad, I've stopped, I'm afraid we won't get any sleep at all! That being said, I start work one evening a week in the fall, and I don't know how dh will survive that one night a week if she doesn't have other ways to fall asleep by then. Aah! Don't know how to prioritize.

We also had moved from co-sleeping to dd sleeping in the crib, so that I could get some sleep, but now the only way she WILL sleep is in bed with me, which means I'm getting kicked, hair pulled, etc....all night long.

DD has also mastered the 40 minute nap, so I'm doing Pantley's method of staying really near by (in bed with her) and nursing her back to sleep as soon as she wakes up. It seems to work about half the time, and the second period of sleep is usually longer than 40 minutes.

Looking forward to seeing what other people are doing and hearing about roadblocks and successes.

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by Aletheia

Ok,weird, weird, weird.

I was going to go to bed early. It's 8:30 here right now. But I thought, no, I need to bolster myself against the crazy that is happening here right now as we are in the second week of trying to get 11 month old Gooby to sleep for longer than 2 hours at a time at night and not wake up to play for 2 or sometimes 3 hour stretches in the middle of the night. I thought, I'm going to get on MDC and post a support thread for folks working on breaking the nurse to sleep association. And what do you know? The thread is already up and running.

So.... I'm joining, and inviting others to join by sharing the following info.

The Problem: After 11 months of only getting an occasional 3 hour stretch of sleep, and the recent development of a) fighting bedtime and b) waking to play in the middle of the night, I am ANGRY. I am resentful of my child. I am snappy to my husband. I've even kicked the cat. I have been the very picture of patience until this last month, but I am pretty much always one yawn away from crazy. I should note too that we EC at night, and that what used to be considered a success is now a huge stumbling block: he wakes to pee, but only nurses to sleep. It's a wake, pee, eat, sleep, wake to pee again cycle.

The Ideal: 2 months from now I would like.... I'd love to get at least 1 five hour stretch of uninterrupted sleep while lying next to my Gooby, who has not shed his body weight in tears to get to that point. That's all I want. Oh, and easier bedtimes and no bouncing, chattering elf pulling my hair at 2:30 a.m. Is that so much to ask?

The Tactics:

1. DH puts Gooby to bed, and handles any wakings until my bedtime. Unless the fussing is desperate, I try not to intervene. How we handle pottying at this time is still unclear.
2. So I'm trying to stick with full feedings at bedtime, 11, 3, and 6, upon waking. At 11 and 3 I hope to be able to feed him sitting up and then lie him down before he is out cold. Hahahaha. The reason we for the time being still have two feedings scheduled is... well, not a good one. I just have a hard time believing he can go that long without eating. I'm probably shooting myself in the foot.
3. Nightwakings in between these times are minimum boobed wakings; I try to do the Pantley pull off. Last night we did this for AN HOUR before I gave up, and then he was AWAKE AWAKE AWAKE.
4. If he does not settle with the Pantley pull off, I get up and walk him. Waking the workaday DH to walk him is a last resort, but comes in handy when I am so mad that I have to go throw rocks at the backyard.
5. I should add that we have a consistent early bedtime and routine, and naps are not usually a problem, though we may be starting to have only 1 nap a day.

So there it is, our plan. Comments? Suggestions?

I'm wishing you all out there luck tonight, and hoping for some for myself as well.

Maybe you could try scooting back on the PPO... ie: if you are now doing it when he is still a little awake, do it JUST after he's fallen asleep... or if your norm is to wait 5 min after he falls asleep, do it 4 min after he falls asleep... to make it a really gentle transition? Gradually work up to removing the nipple while his eyelids are still fluttering....?

The EC thing must be tough! I don't have any advice for that...

(Of course this is advice from a woman who hasn't had a five hour stretch of sleep in... I dunno how long... LOL so take with several grains of salt...)

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by Subliime

I'm so glad I found this thread. When I started our routine 10 days ago I saw immediate improvements. She seriously went from waking every 1-2 hrs to sleeping one 4-5 hr stretch plus a 3 hr stretch and then a 2 hr stretch every night for a few nights. Now that it's time to do another sleep journal it's back to every hour b/c of teething. Come on now. Anyways, I have been trying the PPO and it was working at first but not the past few nights. Does anyone know if teething is causing this?

I don't know. My baby is teething, but her two bottom teeth have already come through. I can't feel any coming in anywhere else though I know that doesn't mean they aren't there. She is still pulling her ears and shrugging her shoulders, so I know she's feeling some pain. (No ear infection, confirmed by doc.) I wish I knew when the teething eases up a little!!!!

[Elipsisqueen]

Teething

Teething can still interfere with my 19 month old's sleep patterns (like last night, waking every hour/2). It's really hard on some kids.

[Elipsisqueen]

Dad getting baby to sleep...

Lately I"ve had some luck with my husband getting DS to sleep. He lies down with him, and I really think DS is sleeping longer. Just thought I'd share that...
ALso, lately I have given my 19 month old a bottle of water when he wakes at like 1 and 3, and he takes a little sip, gets frustrated and goes back to sleep. I think the bottle of water is helping...

[TridentineFan]

I'm so glad to find this thread! I just read Pantley's book for the third time and am working on some things. I'm simply relieved to hear of other mamas who are as frustrated and angry and resentful as me. I feel crazy sometimes, but I've gone nearly eight months usually waking hourly . . . and that's liable to make anybody bonkers! :

[nylecoj]

The Pantley Pull Off method works well for us at naptime, but not so much for bedtime. The past few days we've been out of town and DH has come in to put DD down after I've read, rocked, and nursed and he's been far more successful at it than I. With me she just sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks which makes me a little crazy.

[bellymama]

i read it when ds was a tiny newborn. i like the fact that its a book that doesn't advocate cio and that it somewhat encourages co-sleeping (although the ridiculous chapter on making your bed safe seemed like overkill...duuuuuh...) but i'll be honest, i just think any book that tells you how to raise your kid is faulty, because your kid just isn't going to fit the description...yk? and then i think mama's go crazy because they are like, i followed all the directions and my dc is still not doing it...and then you get even more obsessed with whatever aspect of childrearing that particular book focused on, in this case, sleep training...yes, i said it. i think the pantley theory is gentle sleep training, but sleep training nonetheless....
imho...you might do better just taking it day by day, because your baby is going to change every day...and i don't think babies have sleep issues...they are doing what they are hardwired to do...which, unfortunatly for us very very tired mamas (i woke up at 5 am today: after a wiggly night!)isn't always sleeping at the same time we do...
anyway, if the book is working for you, then go for it! but if its not, don't think its because you aren't doing it right, yk? i think that just makes whatever problems you are having worse...
plus i just found that book to be to much about log keeping...you are already sleep deprived,right?why waste more time you could be sleeping on writing down stuff about your babies sleep pattern.
from my limited experience with my little sister, my baby and what my girlfriends babies have done, this is the rule: as soon as you got baby figured out...they change on ya again...sneaky little buggers .
anyway...i really hope you all are getting rest...nothing is worse then mamahood on an empty tank!

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by bellymama

i read it when ds was a tiny newborn. i like the fact that its a book that doesn't advocate cio and that it somewhat encourages co-sleeping (although the ridiculous chapter on making your bed safe seemed like overkill...duuuuuh...) but i'll be honest, i just think any book that tells you how to raise your kid is faulty, because your kid just isn't going to fit the description...yk? and then i think mama's go crazy because they are like, i followed all the directions and my dc is still not doing it...and then you get even more obsessed with whatever aspect of childrearing that particular book focused on, in this case, sleep training...yes, i said it. i think the pantley theory is gentle sleep training, but sleep training nonetheless....
imho...you might do better just taking it day by day, because your baby is going to change every day...and i don't think babies have sleep issues...they are doing what they are hardwired to do...which, unfortunatly for us very very tired mamas (i woke up at 5 am today: after a wiggly night!)isn't always sleeping at the same time we do...
anyway, if the book is working for you, then go for it! but if its not, don't think its because you aren't doing it right, yk? i think that just makes whatever problems you are having worse...
plus i just found that book to be to much about log keeping...you are already sleep deprived,right?why waste more time you could be sleeping on writing down stuff about your babies sleep pattern.
from my limited experience with my little sister, my baby and what my girlfriends babies have done, this is the rule: as soon as you got baby figured out...they change on ya again...sneaky little buggers .
anyway...i really hope you all are getting rest...nothing is worse then mamahood on an empty tank!

Call it what you will... if it helps, I'll be grateful. I'm so tired, and I know I am one of many mamas who just don't function well on no sleep. I'll be a better mama for her if we can start having a few long stretches of sleep at night.

Regarding the logs, I don't personally do them, but that is why I wanted a thread... a more casual way to keep up with progress. But even if you do do them, you're only supposed to do it every ten days, which doesn't seem too big a deal. If you want to.

Of course you have to take it and adapt it to fit your own child because every child is different... I think that goes without saying, personally.

[prettypixels]

We've had a few successes... one nap this week for TWO HOURS where she did not wake up wanting to eat at all, or need any help. Just slept, for two blessed hours.

But only one nap.

The night before last she slept for *four* hours from 2am to 6am which is like a miracle... but we earned it the hard way with a solid hour of wide awake, crying, fussing baby from 1-2am. I still don't know why she was crying... we offered bottle, nursing, cuddling, hugging... she was just upset. I guess it tired her out! I am hoping for some more 4 hour stretches MINUS the crying for an hour... yikes!

One thing I've noticed since I both bottlenurse and nurse at the breast is that it is much easier to do the PPO with the bottle... it's harder to get her to let go of the breast and she needs to be a little closer to *totally asleep* for me to do that. I know that doesn't help much... but for you mamas working on that maybe just starting a little further down the sleep scale might help.

[prettypixels]

BTW for those mamas whose babies wake hourly or every two hours... when your baby wakes are they just kind of nursing for comfort back to sleep or are they actually eating? I have the (dis)advantage of seeing how much my baby is eating at night... she is taking in about 18 oz overnight! So she really is hungry. I think our success hinges on getting her to eat more during the day, vs. all night long. Any thoughts?

[bellymama]

Originally Posted by prettypixels

Call it what you will... if it helps, I'll be grateful. I'm so tired, and I know I am one of many mamas who just don't function well on no sleep. I'll be a better mama for her if we can start having a few long stretches of sleep at night.

Regarding the logs, I don't personally do them, but that is why I wanted a thread... a more casual way to keep up with progress. But even if you do do them, you're only supposed to do it every ten days, which doesn't seem too big a deal. If you want to.

Of course you have to take it and adapt it to fit your own child because every child is different... I think that goes without saying, personally.

i hope i didn't offend, i just wanted to share my experiences...like i said in my post, whatever works for you...go for it!!! i have just seen a lot of posts where women have read this book, or others and it isn't working and they are feeling even worse than before...i hope it works for you, because you definitely need your sleep! good luck!
a great book i read that changed a lot of my feelings on family bed and nighttime parenting was "three in a bed" by deborah jackson...loved it. not really a how to get baby to sleep book, but just a great insightful book. it made me feel so much better about a lot of things!
i wish all of you mama's the best of luck!!!!
again, i apologize if i sounded judgmental...so not my intention AT ALL!!!