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No Cry Sleep Solution Support Thread.... - Page 17

post #321 of 473
Gwen, welcome to a club you'd rather not belong to! Hopefully your membership will be temporary

Those are A LOT of developmental milestones for your little guy - could be the reason why things have changed. I hope he settles down again for you soon.

Mine also gets soooo tired, and I can tell yearns for sleep, but it eludes him. I find that if I don't get him down by the 3rd try, it's a lost cause. He's so tired, and is past responding to all the usual tricks, so it's meltdown city. the "no cry" bit in NCSS is really misleading, there is crying going on, but at least we are sharing in their misery

We are also dealing with the top 4 teeth coming in at once, and consequently are on a half-hour schedule, naps and night.

If he's getting playtime at night, that might be cause for him to have longer wakeful periods at night - what's more fun than partying with dad! I went through this with my first child. My husband got so fed up he brought her into the living room and they watched TV, and boy did she like that! Took a while to break her of that habit.

So now when DS won't resettle at night after feeding (sometimes happens, not too often thankfully) I pretend to be asleep. After about 20-30 minutes of rolling around and patting my face and complaining (no crying usually) he gets bored and finally nurses again and then goes back to sleep. (we are co-sleeping currently but I hope to get him in his crib soon for part of the night at least)

Sounds like you're already trying to settle him with minimal stimulation, and of course it's hard to complain if your husband is taking him out of the room so that you can get some needed sleep!
post #322 of 473
Hi mamas,
I've started working with some of the precepts in the NCSS, and they seem to be working well on DD (6 mo.) who usually wakes 2-4 times a night and naps 5 times a day for 20 minutes max.

I've been able to work on extending her naps and diminishing the recurrence. DD now naps around 9:00 for an hour, and then around noon for 1.5 hours or more....she also has a late afternoon nap that's also an hour.

I'm wondering if other mamas have noticed that since starting the NCSS, their LO sleeps WAY more than before...Is this normal? DD used to only be able to sleep in my arms for little cat naps and now she's sleeping something like 4 hours in the day. Was she sleep deprived all this time?!
post #323 of 473
Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma View Post
Is this normal? DD used to only be able to sleep in my arms for little cat naps and now she's sleeping something like 4 hours in the day. Was she sleep deprived all this time?!
Yes, and Yes. Isn't it great. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...tor/smilie.gif

You just were responding to her 20 minute sleep cycling like she wanted to be awake and not a transition into a deeper sleep pattern. My ds1 had a 20 minute sleep cycle that almost was the end of me until I read the NCSS and learned to sooth him back to sleep. Enjoy it while it lasts. Soon she will be transitioning from 2 naps a day down to 1.

post #324 of 473
New member here but I have read off and on for the past year. I am hoping you have some insight for us.

We are currently reading NCSS, making a plan and will start some changes Friday (tomorrow) night. We have all kinds of issues: only nurses to fall asleep, won't lay on her back and sleeps in carseat due to reflux and now habit, still wakes 3,4,5 times a night (between 8 PM-5 AM), can't self-soothe (wakes up crying and will only nurse back to sleep), doesn't sleep in crib at all and she is not much of a napper, unless one of us is holding her or she falls asleep in her carseat and we bring her inside. She is also in full-time child care during the week, so we don't have complete control over naps, but they will try whatever we ask, within reason. Good thing is we already have a great bedtime routine and she goes to sleep easily, at the breast of course. She is 7 months old, 17 pounds and should be able to go at least 5-6 hours without eating. So do you all recommend tackling all of these issues at once or one at a time? Our largest issue is waking to eat and then having to burp so she is fully awake 20-30 minutes every couple of hours and the carseat sleeping. We would love to put her to sleep in the co-sleeper at 7 PM, wake once to eat around midnight, then up for the day at 6 AM (we all have to be at work at 7 AM).

Thanks for any advice!
post #325 of 473
Hi sunnydays,

parent of fellow refluxer here (silent in our case). Ours slept in the swing tons until about 5 months. Slightly OT but I'll offer some reflux-sleeping advice!
  • tummy sleep, if you're comfortable with it. Between months 3-4, mine actually slept through the night! And now both naps and night sleeps are longer if he's on the tummy. Considering he rolls now I'm not worried at all about SIDS (I wasn't before either, frankly, but then again this is my second child so I'm a lot more relaxed about everything)

  • side lying nurse for nighttimes. I stopped burping babe around 4 months at nighttime, and found if I nursed laying down I never heard any refluxy sounds anyway. So it was right back to sleep for both of us. What has happened for you when you don't keep upright/burp after feeding at night?

  • reflux resolved for us around 6 months, right around when he could sit up and when we introduced solids. He still doesn't eat much at 7.5 months, but I think it's enough to weigh the food down a bit so it doesn't come back up. Plus I think the stomach muscles etc are stronger now with the sitting.
For nighttimes, you can try the pantly pull off mentioned in the book, to break the suck to sleep habit. Note that this takes a few weeks to establish and will get worse before it gets better so you need to be prepared to stick it out.

For naps, are you doing a routine? You might want to try one that your caregiver can do (ie no nursing), and ends with your babe in bed drowsy. She's a stickler on the no napping in arms bit.

If you have the fortitude and support of your caregivers, I'd try them all at once, otherwise, focus on what you see as the biggest problem area.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
post #326 of 473
Hi everyone! We actually have been having great sleep in our house. I haven't counted, but I think DS has *only* been waking up 5 or 6 times per night (as oppossed to 8 - 10). And he has been sleeping from 7 pm to 7 am, so there has been some improvement. Also, after our bedtime routine he is still rolling over and putting himself to sleep the majority of the time!

Naps have been going just so-so this past week since he is back with his nanny while I'm back at work 3 days a week. Aquamam, your message below just made me realize I may be part of the problem! Our nap routine involves nursing. It was working really well for us, but maybe that's why the nanny has had trouble getting him down to nap. I guess I should try to change that over the long weekend. I remember you had a really cool nap routine so I'll go back and re-read that.

I have been able to put DS down for a nap drowsy but awake one time, so we'll see if that holds out over the next few days. Wish me luck!

The other thing we're going to try is to have DH try to put DS back to sleep (obviously without nursing) at least half of the night over the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes!

Halfasianmomma, yes I've noticed that DS sleeps more now that we're on the NCSS. He's now sleeping 12 hours at night + 2 - 3 hours during the day. Before he was sleeping 10 hours at night and 3 hours in the day.

sunnydays28, I didn't have to deal with reflux, but DS was 10 months old and could only fall asleep in his ergo (with an hour of bouncing) when we started. Now he falls asleep in my arms almost without a fuss. Hang in there.
post #327 of 473
Hi everyone,

So first off I must have been crazy to say that I would take nursing out of our naptime routine. No way that would work. Instead I'm just going to suggest that DS's nanny gives him a bottle as part of her nap routine with him when I'm gone.

And, secondly, we have not yet tried to have DH respond to DS's night wakings. DS has two new teeth coming in and has been running a fever for the last couple of nights, so I don't think that DS or I are quite ready for this. For now I'm just going to stick with the PPOs more consistently.

Also, I've noticed this last week that he's really fighting harder than normal against the second nap of the day. Normally he naps from 9ish to 11 ish, then from 2ish to 3ish. But lately its been 3ish before I can get him down, and its been a struggle. I think he may be trying to transition down to one nap a day. I guess this can happen as early as 12 months, right? It took me an hour to get him down today even though he was showing all of his tired signs. I probably should not have kept trying so long, and tomorrow I won't.

It's like they say - as soon as you figure them out, they change! On the upside, he went down like an angel for his first nap of the day. I even put him down drowsy but awake!
post #328 of 473
A bottle makes perfect sense to sub for the breast step when you're not around (I wish mine would take one, or eat a bit of solid food for that matter!)

We are also dealing with teething (all the top 4) plus illlness so I'm back to my old tricks of nursing to sleep, and all night long. hopefully it won't last too long.

It's early but your LO could be dropping his nap - typically it's the morning one that goes tho. My first dropped hers around 14 months. When she finally did only one it was a 3 hour nap from 12:30-3:30 and soooo sweet
post #329 of 473
I have read the NCSS twice and have just recently been able to get a consistent routine. My guy is 9 months and hasn't had a restful night sleep since he was born. But the last two days he did take two good naps. One for an hour in the a.m. and one for 2 hours in the afternoon. And he is going to sleep easier at bedtime too. We have a pretty short routine but it seems to be helping. We change into jammies and brush his teeth, (well gums really, no teeth yet) read a short book, I sing a song to him and snuggle until he falls asleep. We have his crib set up as a sidecar so I kind of half lay in the crib with him. He still has a lot of trouble staying asleep but success with the naps is a BIG improvement! : Plus he's teething so I'm not expecting too much right now. But I want to try and keep up a routine anyway. He seems to do better that way!
BTW thanks for starting this thread! I needed some support! I am right there with all of you other sleep deprived moms who feel Frustrated and Overly Tired!
post #330 of 473
I am reading the NC NAP Solution and have a few questions regarding naps, which I hope are all right to inquire about here...

My little one is 3 months old, has slept wonderfully at night (we bedshare and I love it) since about six weeks old, but for napping, I'm noticing she has OCSS/she is a catnapper. If I let her sleep in my arms or in the wrap, she goes right back to sleep at the end of her sleep cycle, but I'm trying to encourage her to nap in her crib. Of course it takes a lot of effort to get her to go back to sleep when she wakes in the crib.

What I'm wondering about is this:

Pantley says she should be sleeping for 90 minutes or more during her naps. If she wakes up 45, or even 20, minutes into the nap, and it takes me another 30 minutes to get her back to sleep, how much longer should she sleep ideally to complete her nap? Does the nap need to "start over" and she should sleep for an additional 90 minutes? Does she only need to sleep another 45 minutes for a total of 90?

I'm really confused about this, but I'm not seeing it addressed in the nap book. Does anyone know, or have any thoughts, opinions, or experience to share?

I would really appreciate it!
post #331 of 473
Hi Crosscat, that is a tough one. Is it possible for you to stay near your LO and respond to her before she fully wakes up so that it doesn't take 30 minutes to get her back down? If not, my guess would be that she just isn't old enough yet to consolidate her naps. I think Pantley addresses that somewhere, but I can't remember.

Congrats to you, though, for reading the book and trying the techniques early on. I didn't start until DS was over ten months old! I really wish I had read it earlier, but we're still seeing improvements.
post #332 of 473
Originally Posted by crosscat View Post
I am reading the NC NAP Solution and have a few questions regarding naps, which I hope are all right to inquire about here...
I didn't know she had a nap book out - is it new? She probably got tired of everyone complaining about the lack of nap info in NCSS The only thing in the sleep book about naps is to do a routine, and hover over the crib or bed at LO's wakeup time and try to get them back down by any means necessary.

Personally I only try for 15 minutes or so, after that it's pretty much a lost cause. And if you do manage to get them back down, I would count the total time, myself.

I'm happy if I can get an hour. I wouldn't stress about your LO not getting exactly 90 minutes. Babies vary widely in their need for sleep.
post #333 of 473
Subbing. Things are ok for me now but when I go back to work in March I know I'll be relying on this thread a whole lot more. I've already read through the beginning of the book but plan to read it fully one of these days!

Hugs to all of you frustrated mamas and I wish nothing but lots of sleep and peaceful nights for you and your babies.
post #334 of 473
subbing this thread... but sort of wishing I didn't need to! We've only just started our NCSS journey for real, after holidays and a move I decided not to add anything else until we settled!

Today is day two of naps in her own bed...and this morning she slept for almost an hour all by herself, but stayed asleep when she stirred and slept in my arms for another half hour! That's an hour and a half nap!!! miraculous! And now she's been down almost 40 minutes without any help from me. She won't go down until fully asleep, but I think I'm ok just getting her to sleep at all right now.

I'm feeling very encouraged today...because last night she wouldn't sleep unless in DH's arms or attached to my boob. And I find it difficult to sleep like that.

And can I just say that even in only skimming this thread for 10 minutes, I'm SOOOO happy to find other moms with babes like mine, who possess just two switches: Awake and asleep. No drowsy. Ahhh, we're not weird. Nice to know!

So anway, Hi!! I know I'll be back.
post #335 of 473
Welcome Purewellspring!

I didn't know she had a nap book out - is it new?
So yes, Pantley has written a book specifically on naps! The skeptical side of my personality thinks that maybe she purposefully held out on nap info in the NCSS in anticipation of writing this book...at any rate, I really do love Pantley's approach so I am now the proud owner of the NC Nap Solution as well. I haven't read it in whole yet, but there does seem to be some good ideas.

I like the "Pantley Dance" for helping to transition babies who are accustomed to napping in arms to napping in the bed. The general idea is that you slowly get the baby accustomed to stillness so that the crib is not such a change.To quickly summarize, when the babe is in your arms and drowsy but awake, you start gently dancing/humming/singing/shhhing. Then you stop the motion and either continue with the sound or stop (it depends on the baby's disposition). Then you start with the motion again and stop. Repeat. Eventually, you lie the baby down in the crib, feet first, all the while continuing to hum/sing/shhh. Then either pat the baby or just keep your hands on them. Of course, if they become fully awake and cry, start over or just do what works.

I haven't tried it yet but will give it a go tonight. This week has been sort of bleh. The naps are going OK (we're still at 2/day) but at night he is nursing allll the time. I haven't been consistent with the PPOs because he has been waking up fully at 4 AM if I do not let him nurse as much as he wants. I'm kind of in a rut and my nipples are sore. I think tonight I'll be more firm with the PPOs and if he wakes up hand him to DH. (It's just so hard at night when I just want to sleep at whatever cost!)
post #336 of 473
I need some encouragement! The night before last I must have been cuddling DS in an akward position because I woke up with my wrist aching. It's still hurting me, and that makes it difficult since I typically have to bounce DS for several (or many) minutes to get him to sleep.

Then, last night I tried to be more consistent with the PPOs and guess what! He woke up at 4:30 AM. Since I can't really pick him up and hold him right now (due to aching wrist) DH bounced him back to sleep. Then DS slept from around 5:15 to 7 but was attached to my nipple almost hte whole time which meant I didn't sleep well.

I try to remind myself that we have made a lot of progress since now he will nap in his crib and go to sleep for bedtime without being in a carrier so now I have some of my evening time back. But I feel like I just can't reduce his night wakings. If I try to pat him or sshhhh him when he wants to nurse, it just doesn't work. I would like to have another baby sometime but I just can't see that happening until we get DS to sleep better.
post #337 of 473
Boatrat, I am with you on the night wakings - it's still about 10 per night over here. About 4 of them are before my bedtime, so I have taken to reading in the chair in our room at night with a headlamp on to prevent the constant back and forth from the living room (upside, getting lots of reading done)

I wish I had advice on how to make that part better - it's the biggest challenge for me in all this.

How do you bounce your DS - by walking around? When my DS was into being bounced I used an exercise ball, it was great for my abs

I admit I've gotten lazy with the "putting them down drowsy" bit - I think this is probably the key to improvement for higher needs kids like ours - ie when they learn to go to sleep on their own, when they wake at night they may be able to go BACK to sleep on their own. (in the words of monty python - that is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it).
post #338 of 473
Aquamam, thanks for the commiseration and the tip on the exercise ball. Yeah, right now we are just walking and bouncing. My abs could definitely use the workout!

This morning DS was up at 5:20 AM and wouldn't go back down. Fortunately, DH usually takes those morning shifts for me so I'm not a complete mess.

I think you're right that we need to encourage our babes to fall asleep on their own. I've been able to nurse DS until he's almost asleep and then let him fall asleep on his own a few times....maybe I should try to stick to that approach and just let him fall asleep on the bed instead of working so hard to get him down in the packnplay. He's only in there for 20 or 45 minutes anyway before he wakes up!

have taken to reading in the chair in our room at night with a headlamp on to prevent the constant back and forth from the living room (upside, getting lots of reading done)
I love the headlamp idea! I'll have to try to find my old one from my camping/backpacking days.
post #339 of 473

sleepless too

wow - I've just been reading this thread for the last few nights, not sure whether to laugh or cry that there are so many of us in the same boat. It's too bad that there aren't more people posting who have it figured out - it's like a self-selecting sample of people learning to live with it ... but it sure helps knowing you're not alone.

I'm in a similar situation to many of the posters here. My 4 mo daughter also wakes almost hourly and cannot go back to sleep without a nurse (albeit a brief, no-drama, 15 minute comfort nurse and we co-sleep). I'd really like if we could get to the point that DH could resettle her so I could get more than 90 mins of sleep at a time OR an evening out at some point in the foreseeable future. This might require her taking a bottle (something she rejects right now) or just getting her to dissociate sleep from nursing so once she is down (usually around 7:30) I might be able to go out for a few hours.

Am I being crazy and expecting too much at this age? My biggest fear is that DH is getting impatient with it and is impressed by our Dr's authoritative no-nonsense explanation of the simplicity and efficacy of CIO (with minimal checking and consoling). Also, there are times (like .... now) when I'm sick and exhausted and would LOVE to just sleep for a stretch. As another poster mentioned, I am on a short leash, and I would really like to loosen it up.

I have the NCSS but, honestly, I get a bit confused about how to target specific areas. How does one move from *nurse to sleep 10x night* to *pat to sleep a couple of times a night*?

I'd love your ideas, sympathies, etc.

thank you for this thread!!
post #340 of 473
For us, none of that stuff from the book has really held true. After I read that book I started really encouraging longer napping and made sure he was getting to sleep by 7:30. He was still waking up every hour. So then, one day, he accidentally didn't really nap at all and he slept for six hours straight that night. The first time since infancy! I picked up Dr. Sears' baby book the other day and he totally advocates co-sleeping and nursing at night, but does say that it's good to have dad get baby to sleep. He also advocates taking baby off the breast before he falls asleep, which is really hard, but I think is easier when baby is used to dad patting or singing him back to sleep. My baby is fourteen months and since he's been napping less and going to bed later, with dad putting him to bed at night and patting him down when he wakes up the first time, he sleeps sooo much better.
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