No Cry Sleep Solution Support Thread.... - Page 22

[CHoney]

Originally Posted by LeoneLover13

CHoney: Has he always done that? My DD switches up her night time all the time especially when she is having a really hard time teething. I second the question about his naps, is it just one or two?

DS always wakes up if put to bed at 7. He usually has two 2 hours a day, and he does get sleepy around 3 or 4 and usually naps around then.

For the past few nights he's been going to bed at 9 which is progress! Maybe he just needed to be ready to sleep earlier?

I will try and wake up earlier consistently so DS has more rhythm to his day. Sometimes we'll sleep in until 9 or 10, so he's not tired till late in the evening.

He is teething right now, and maybe that is why he'll wake up at 5am and wants to cuddle, but won't go to back to bed till 6:30 or 7am.

[filiadeluna]

I have this book, but haven't read the whole thing. I just want to bang my head against a wall sometimes. My DD - almost 5 months old - is an amazing, sweet, beautiful, loving baby when she is feeling well/not tired. However, she has always - from day 1 - been incredibly fussy at night (screaming like a BANSHEE), and often during the day as well. She was very colicky the first couple of months + has reflux. I got a small break for about two weeks, until she started teething. The teething has been going on about two months now, with no end in sight. It feels like I spend all.day.long trying to get her to nap or go to bed for the night, and it's a constant struggle.

When I least expect it, she will actually sleep quite a bit, but when I *really* need her to sleep (i.e. I'm exhausted and want to sleep myself, or I have a lot of chores to do, or just want some "me" time), she REFUSES to go to/stay asleep. We co-sleep at night, and sometimes for naps too, but unlike when she was younger, she won't always fall asleep next to me during the daytime even when she's really exhausted. Sometimes she will just scream and fuss, or look around and babble, instead of going to sleep, and I'm lying there next to her about to pass out. Ugh.

This morning I tried to nap with her, but she wouldn't sleep, so I had to put her in the swing fully awake while I passed out in the bedroom (I had the door open to make sure she didn't cry). She eventually passed out in the swing after just sitting there babbling to herself for awhile. I felt awful, but if I didn't get a nap I would have been Crabby Annoyed Resentful Mommy all day long. Tonight she didn't pass out until about 10 minutes ago. : Sometimes she'll go to bed as early as 9:30pm, but lately she's been staying up later, and later, and LATER, but still getting up at the same time(s).

I run an in-home daycare, so I HAVE to get a fair amount of sleep or I won't be able to function taking care of the other baby I watch in addition to my own.

[terrainthailand]

It feels like I spend all.day.long trying to get her to nap or go to bed for the night, and it's a constant struggle.

I have SOOOO been there. For me, it was around 3.5/4 months. Is the biggest problem getting her to sleep or keeping her that way? For getting them to sleep the NCSS suggests starting your nap routine at the very first sign of sleepiness. If you haven't tried this, do. But for us, it turns out it works much better for me to wait until my girl is really really tired... not crazy, screaming, exhausted tired, but good and tired. For me, at 5 months, that meant trying to keep her awake at least 3 hours between her 3 naps. Maybe starting early is better on some level, but I was spending 30 to 45 minutes trying to bounce her to sleep and it was just frustrating the heck out of me.

As for keeping them asleep - I have had some success with the NCSS nap-lengthening techniques. But it can also be frustrating when it doesn't work so I have a strict policy of just.letting.it.go when I start getting upset. That means we have many days where my LO only naps for 40 minutes at a time. I would love her to sleep more, but it isn't worth feeling like crap about!

This morning I tried to nap with her, but she wouldn't sleep, so I had to put her in the swing fully awake while I passed out in the bedroom (I had the door open to make sure she didn't cry). She eventually passed out in the swing after just sitting there babbling to herself for awhile. I felt awful, but if I didn't get a nap I would have been Crabby Annoyed Resentful Mommy all day long.

FWIW, I wouldn't feel bad about this AT ALL. She wasn't crying... sounds like she was enjoying herself in a safe place and ultimately fell asleep. Sounds perfect to me.

I'm sorry you're feeling so lousy. Hang in there!!

[Eligracey]

We're trying to do NCSS, too. The PPO works sometimes, only at night. The nap-lengthening procedure works maybe 1/3 of the time, but other times he wakes from his nap with no warning, just pops his head up in cobra pose and looks around smiling and cooing. And I sit in the room with him reading quietly, so I know there's definitely no warning the way night-wake-ups have a warning. So I guess 30-45 minute naps sometimes are enough for him, it just seems like at 7 months he should be taking 2 longer naps rather than 3 short naps. The other issue is that the bedtime routine has made getting him down for the night SUPER easy, but he still won't stay asleep any longer than before (5-6 wake-ups a night, when just a month or so ago it was 2 every night!). I'm still greatful for the ease of getting him down--it's much nicer to spend 30 minutes with bath/stories/nurse/rock than 30 minutes rocking. But I've also had limited success with getting him to recognize the nap routine. He's in daycare 4 days a week, and I'm afraid it's too long to go without forgetting what we did last weekend. I guess he'll figure it out eventually, but for now naps are such a battle.

Just wanted to vent to like-minded mamas of poorly sleeping babies!

[Louisep]

Originally Posted by Eligracey

We're trying to do NCSS, too. The PPO works sometimes, only at night. The nap-lengthening procedure works maybe 1/3 of the time, but other times he wakes from his nap with no warning, just pops his head up in cobra pose and looks around smiling and cooing. And I sit in the room with him reading quietly, so I know there's definitely no warning the way night-wake-ups have a warning. So I guess 30-45 minute naps sometimes are enough for him, it just seems like at 7 months he should be taking 2 longer naps rather than 3 short naps. The other issue is that the bedtime routine has made getting him down for the night SUPER easy, but he still won't stay asleep any longer than before (5-6 wake-ups a night, when just a month or so ago it was 2 every night!). I'm still greatful for the ease of getting him down--it's much nicer to spend 30 minutes with bath/stories/nurse/rock than 30 minutes rocking. But I've also had limited success with getting him to recognize the nap routine. He's in daycare 4 days a week, and I'm afraid it's too long to go without forgetting what we did last weekend. I guess he'll figure it out eventually, but for now naps are such a battle.

Just wanted to vent to like-minded mamas of poorly sleeping babies!

Are you secretly looking after my son?! They are identical in their nap/sleep behavior. I have not really started NCSS in earnest yet. He's got 2 upper canines coming through and I just want to see what happens once they arrive. Last night he woke up probably 8 times. Like your son, he used to wake 1-2 times per night. Sigh....I don't even hope for STTN anymore. 3 wake ups a night would be blissful!

[Eligracey]

Louisep--maybe we can chalk the increased wake-ups up to developing cognitive and motor skills? I keep fantasizing that as soon as he learns to crawl for real he'll STTN. hah! (Actually, learning to roll over did result in a temporary but terrific sleep pattern)

[LeoneLover13]

Maaaaajor vent

She's almost 10.5 months old now and there is no improvement, at all. I am frustrated, angry, sad and hopeless that in 4.5 months there has been no improvement in her sleep at all. There have been changes, but nothing for the better, I think it's actually gotten worse. She is still waking every hour, just to comfort nurse now, when it used to be to actually eat and she would unlatch herself when she was done. Now, I have to pop her off, (some form of PPO I guess) which I have been doing since birth. and she usually will turn over and go back to sleep. But it's still every single 'effing hour.

:

I cant believe this has actually become the norm for me. People look terrified when I tell them she has never slept through the night and still wakes every hour. Even if we are cosleeping.
I have become so exhausted I can't sleep anymore. It's midnight and I have been trying to sleep for 2 hours...I am SO tired, but everytime I lay down my mind starts racing, I toss and turn and just feel anxious. I think I am actually becoming anxious that she is going to wake up, so I just don't sleep, what's the point if she's just going to wake me up in 20 mins??



Dear God I love her to death but I am wondering if I have done this to myself and if I have caused her to be so dependant on me to sleep. Should I have stopped this much earlier? Am I now doomed to wake every hour until she turns 2?

I have run out of any patience or willpower to be consistent with anything anymore. If I can get her to sleep and to stay asleep, then I will actually encourage her to comfort nurse for 20 mins. She was NEVER like this before 6 months, and I NEVER worried about having to get her to sleep. Now I dread it.

This is more of a "i'm exhausted and need to get this off my mind in the hopes that I will now be able to sleep" sort of vent. I hope I haven't ruined any other Mom's dreams of babies STTN....but if I had to do over, I duno, at this point, maybe I would change a few things.

[summer_rose]

I'm pretty new to these boards but I had to reply. I could have written your post word for word except my DS is 11 months. I'm even more tired now that I'M not sleeping, for the exact same reasons you mentioned. I lay there just listening to the monitor, waiting because I know he's going to wake up. Usually after the 2nd time I've got up out of bed, I just bring DS in with me and I can fall asleep, but then I'm woken up all the time by his moving around.

How are your naps going? DS started taking longer naps around 7 months I think. So at least we have something going for us I guess.

Have you looked into food allergies/intolerances?? We're going down that road right now thanks to a few suggestions on here. I really think DS is at the very least milk intolerant but we'll see if it helps his sleep. I'm on day 5 of a dairy elimination diet.

((HUGS))

[Louisep]

I feel the same way. Something has to give. Nothing works, he's getting worse and I too have insomnia because of it. Many nights I'm just in tears. I don't have your problem of nursing all night. DS just won't stop moving and he wakes up crawling. It's been like this for 3.5 months. I too blame myself since he used to be fine.

I feel like with the nursing there must be a way to stop it? Is it too early to night wean? I sometimes wish DS wanted nursing back to sleep - it only works 50% of the time. I have to use a different technique each time like pantley recommends. That said, it's not working to lengthen his sleep intervals.

Major frustration today. I have to try something new tonight.

Has anyone tried keeping their LO up super late? We have always put to bed at 7pm. It used to work but now he wakes up 40 mins later.

[Eligracey]

Maybe you don't have to night-wean all together. My friend had good luck with gradually lengthening the interval between feedings, like at first only feed if it's been 2 hours since the last feeding. I think her husband helped soothe baby in between feedings. Sadly, this rarely works for us. Sometimes he's OK being rocked back to sleep with no food, but most times he WAILS until I give in. And it's so late, and I've already been woken up several times already, so I cave. Bad mama. I know I need to work on that, but like Pantley says, I'm too tired to change. At least the kind of change that involves 30 minutes of wailing at 3AM. The PPO a few times a night I can handle (when I don't fall asleep first).

We have tried monekying with the bedtime, and have found out that baby needs exactly 11 hours and 45 minutes of sleep, but will not sleep past 7AM. So the ideal is for him to fall asleep at 7:45PM, so he sleeps until 7AM. Put him to bed at 6:45, he wakes at 6AM. Put him to be at 9PM, he wakes at 7AM but is cranky and tired all day. It didn't help sleep at all, but at least now I know so I can monkey with his wake-up time if we need to get up earlier for anything.

[LeoneLover13]

Thanks for the replies ladies. It's good to know i'm not the only one going berserk over this.

To address a few points or suggestions made:

summer rose: She already has a milk allergy since birth (and I am lactose intolerant) so I avoid everything dairy related. I also stopped soy since she started to develop an allergy to that. Her naps are random. It used to be really easy to get her to sleep but now I have to wait until she is TIRED not just showing signs like the book says and then I basically either force her nurse for 20 mins and she'll be out, or I walk and bounce in a dark room for up to an hour. Three guesses which one I usually pick. I know, Bad mama!

LouiseP: I have tried putting her down really late, really early, the same time everynight and none of it makes a difference for her. She usually sleeps 11-12 hours a night no matter what time I put her down. However last night she actually fell asleep on our walk at 730pm and we just got up at 10am but she's awake every hour, and she woke up for a whole hour rolling around the bed staring at the ceiling. It's like she just can't sleep either, like me.

Eligracey: I still use the PPO everytime she eats and it works fine but there is no development past that like the book says. As far as lengthening and having DH soothe in between...it's hell. He gets frustrated because she just tries to climb off him to get to me, he's exausted because he works 12 hours and gets up at 3am and she will just cry until I give in. Usually once she's latched on, I can pop her off after 5 mins if not less, it's just freaking annoying. Sometimes it just makes me so uncomfortable and gives me the heeby-jeebies when she's just flutter sucking and I am completely empty, I can't stand it.

Well I am glad to know there are others and I am not alone, although it does suck that we are all going through this. It just gives all the CIO friends/family I have more ammo to throw at me when they're trying to convince me to "just let her cry". I really have nothing to say anymore because they are right, I probably did do this to us and I probably won't be able to break it without letting her cry.

[Louisep]

LeoneLover13, just a couple of thoughts. Are you drinking chamomile tea? I am and I think it helps, but it doesn't work straight away.

How are naps? Is that something manageable you can perhaps work on? Maybe just work on getting her on one long nap a day?

[LeoneLover13]

naps...

Louisep

That is something I am trying to figure out. Should she be on one long nap or 2 naps a day at this point? I am not sure since she is now 10.5 months. She just went down 1/2 hr ago and will either be down for an hour or 2, I can never tell. But if she sleeps for 2 hours and wakes around noon/one (most days are like that), she will be exhausted around 5/6 and will desperately want to sleep for an hour, and that is way too late and then she's up til 10/11.

I can't get her down earlier because she doesn't wake up til 9/10. Should I try to push it later and get her down around 1pm? It'll be hell, but i'll try it.

BTW..I have not been drinking camomile, I have been drinking echinecea lately because there is a bug going around. Does the camomile help your LO sleep longer/better?

[Louisep]

Originally Posted by LeoneLover13

Louisep

That is something I am trying to figure out. Should she be on one long nap or 2 naps a day at this point? I am not sure since she is now 10.5 months. She just went down 1/2 hr ago and will either be down for an hour or 2, I can never tell. But if she sleeps for 2 hours and wakes around noon/one (most days are like that), she will be exhausted around 5/6 and will desperately want to sleep for an hour, and that is way too late and then she's up til 10/11.

I can't get her down earlier because she doesn't wake up til 9/10. Should I try to push it later and get her down around 1pm? It'll be hell, but i'll try it.

BTW..I have not been drinking camomile, I have been drinking echinecea lately because there is a bug going around. Does the camomile help your LO sleep longer/better?

That's great that she can nap for so long! You really must force yourself to nap also.

I think it's possible for a 10.5 month old to drop to one nap (my friend's just did), but it sounds like she needs 2.

I can't tell from your post what time you go to bed and what time the nap usually is?

I'm wondering though, do you think she should be getting up earlier? Have you tried a 7pm-7am sleep span?

chamomile helps me relax and sleep and someone also said it seemed to help their LO.

Not here, yawn Although the last two days I've had success lengthening DS's nap from 40 mins to 2 hours AND he has slept for the first 3 hours of the night without waking. But then, it's the usual story.

[LeoneLover13]

Frustrated!!!!

Babygirls schedule got all out of whack lately with us going out so much the past week (DH has an easy week). Shortened naps, or missed naps, late bedtimes etc. had caused her to be not waking until noon the next day and then not going to bed until midnight the following night with one nap around 1pm and the second around 7pm (when I thought she was going to sleep!) :

So today I tried my utmost to break that bad habit. I woke our tired butts up at 8am after not going to bed til midnight last night (and still waking every hour) and she did great all day...took a 45 min nap at 10am and then 2 hours at 2pm. So we went on our nightly walk at 715pm and she passed out almost immediately at 730/745pm for 1/2 hr just like she has done for 3 days now.

As soon as we got home, I tried to transfer her over to our bed, nursed her...and she woke up bright eyed and bushy-tailed just like after her naps.

What gives?!?! I did everything right, got through this hellish day with my grumpier-than-ive-ever-known-babygirl got her to sleep at a normal hour and she wakes up!! She definitely doesn't need 3 naps so I don't know what the heck is going on. What do I do now?! Do I keep trying the same thing for the next week and be dead on my feet with a horrifically-grumpy baby?

[Louisep]

Sounds to me like the getting up earlier and going to bed earlier is working. I think you should try taking your nightly walk earlier so she doesn't fall asleep on it, but gets sleepy. Then when you get home put her to bed, then when she wakes up she *might* be more likely to fall back asleep.

I'm sure it will take a little while for her to get used to the new earlier schedule too. So hang in there!! I think it's going to work for you because of the naps she was taking.

Good luck!

[terrainthailand]

Sorry LeoneLover13 - those schedule changes can be a bear. After we got back from a 6 week trip to the US, my DD woke up hourly for more than a week. I thought I would go nuts. That was actually what got me to finally read this book.

I agree with LouiseP about trying to avoid her falling asleep in the carrier. You know what NCSS says about falling asleep in the same place the wake up! You could also try adjusting the schedule more gradually (1/2 hour at a time). If, that is, you have the patience!

I hope it can give you some hope, and not drive you crazy, that things are going pretty well for us at the moment. Wake-ups seem to be down to about 3 times/night (once I go to bed at 9:30/10) - though I need to do another log to really be sure. Last night she actually slept straight from 9:30 to 3:30. AMAZING!! Her two bottom teeth are in now and I am planning to take the opportunity to gently encourage her to drop a night feeding. My plan is to make a real effort to get up and bounce her to sleep, rather than offering her the boob straight away. Obviously I will nurse her if she starts to really cry or is rooting around, but I suspect that she won't do that every time. My hope is that a few nights of this might convince her to skip one of those wake-ups. Wish me luck!!

[100%mom]

Can I join? I haven't read the book yet, but I plan to get it from the library next time I'm there.

My little one is 8 months and I'm TIRED!! Last night he woke up almost every hour. He just nurses and falls back to sleep. He's not awake for more then 5 minutes at a time, but I'm just tired from waking up over and over all night long. A couple weeks ago I moved him out of our bed into a playpen right next to the bed. So now I sit up and feed him on the side of the bed every time he wakes up. His naps are fine. He take a couple hour to two hour naps a day. I just want him to sleep longer at night. There are some nights that he will sleep for a 3 hour stretch, but not many. Most nights he wakes up every two hours.

[LeoneLover13]

Thanks ladies. It's 915am here and I made DH wake us up when he got home from work (he jsut started nights which makes my life SO much harder!) so we'll see how today goes. I will try walking with her earlier and maybe put her in the stroller instead of the carrier. I really hope this works so I can get back to figuring out her waking at night!

100%mom-- Of course you can join! Your situation sounds like mine, which started around 6/7 months. Get the book and get ready for results! Hopefully :-P

[crabbyowl]

Joining In

Hello! I'm new to this thread, and want to start doing the NCSS with my 10.5-month-old who still usually wakes every 1.5-2 hours at night.

I started doing just the PPO last night, and I actually only had to get up with her TWICE!!!! Fell asleep at 7:50, up right away, asleep again at 8:35. Up at 12:15, asleep at 12:55. Up at 3:20, diaper change, down at 4:10. Up for the day at 7:45!
:::

It may have just been because she was expending more energy during the night - the first time I tried putting her down at her usual bedtime she woke up right away and didn't fall back asleep until 45 minutes later. Then her night wakings lasted about 45 minutes each because she didn't want to let me remove her pacifier before she was asleep. She did eventually accept it, though, so hopefully it'll get easier. When she falls asleep right after nursing she'll pull off on her own and close her eyes to sleep, but she usually wants the pacifier after nursing, and she doesn't like it when I try to take that away.

: to everyone!