Midwifery in the Netherlands

[JaneSmith1010]

Can any of you tell me how midwifery and homebirth are received in the Netherlands? I am looking to emigrate and am not sure what countries are the most open to alternative medicine and/or do not have inadequate medical systems.

[clogmama]

Homebirth and midwifery are completely normal here. I had a homebirth here and I know many other women who have had homebirths and waterbirths at home.

[JaneSmith1010]

Wonderful! I have been looking up certification programs for midwifery there and am still not sure what sort of midwives there are. In the U.S. there are uncertified midwives, certified ones and nurse midwives. The same there?

[LeftFootGreen]

Midwifery is the norm!

Using midwives during pregnancy and birth is actually the norm here. Something like 50% of pregnant women give birth at home. In the insurance rules, only births requiring medical attention and designated as such are eligible to have a hospital birth covered by insurance. When you're PG here, you notify your insurance company and receive the necessities for a homebirth --a packet called the "kraampakket". So, yes! Midwifery is normal!

The education is a four year study, in Dutch. Here is a website with info: http://www.verloskundige.info/ (all in Dutch)

[JaneSmith1010]

Originally Posted by LeftFootGreen

Using midwives during pregnancy and birth is actually the norm here. Something like 50% of pregnant women give birth at home. In the insurance rules, only births requiring medical attention and designated as such are eligible to have a hospital birth covered by insurance. When you're PG here, you notify your insurance company and receive the necessities for a homebirth --a packet called the "kraampakket". So, yes! Midwifery is normal!

The education is a four year study, in Dutch. Here is a website with info: http://www.verloskundige.info/ (all in Dutch)

Oh great!!! Now we just need to find out more about the Netherlands politics, qualification transfers and immigration info. Depending on the way the presidential elections go in the U.S. we may be emigrating in the next 3 or 4 years. Any general info you'd like to share is much appreciated!

[sadiejane08]

I can't tell you specifically what the rules are in your situation, as I immigrated here with my Dutch husband. What I do know is that you and your husband will both have to take the naturalization classes, where you'll learn the Dutch language and information about the social and political structure of the Netherlands. At the end you'll have to pass a test showing you have a moderate ability to get your way around in Dutch.

Another little tidbit is that you won't be able to just convert your driver's license; you'll have to pass a driving test here first, within six months. You get one shot at an expedited exam (10 theory questions and then driving); if you don't pass, then you have to follow the same path everyone in NL follows to get a license. It's taken much, much more seriously here than in the US, and several rules are quite different, so you'll probably want to take several lessons with a driving school before you go for the test.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service website may be helpful to you: http://www.ind.nl/EN/index.asp

That's all I can think of for now!

Good luck,

SJ

[sarahmck]

One note about homebirth here: Although it's the norm as others have said (30% of first births is the figure that I've heard most recently), it's different from homebirth in the US. I have one child who was born at home in California. There, the midwives have to be totally committed to homebirth. It's a political issue and to be a homebirth midwife is to be an activist. In The Netherlands, being a midwife is a normal thing, like being a nurse. So in the case of most midwives, that passion isn't there. They aren't committed in their very souls to natural birth at home without interventions. There are a variety of interventions that I'm told (anecdotally) are common, such as breaking of water and even episiotomies. And there are strict guidelines about hospital transfer and most midwives aren't terribly inclined to go against those guidelines because, again, they aren't passionate about homebirth. So if you have meconium, they want to transfer. If you need to push for more than two hours for a first baby or one for a subsequent baby, they want to transfer.

To anyone who reads this and thinks "hey, my Dutch midwife was passionate!," please keep in mind that I'm speaking generally. There are, of course, exceptions. I think that I have found one of those exceptions and will try to hire her if I manage to get pregnant.

As for that driving license thing, is that 6-month comment that the PP made still true? I'm currently taking driving lessons and haven't run across that. Also, if you qualify for "the 30% rule," you don't need a Dutch license. Baby is awake, no time to continue.

[lostintnl]

Originally Posted by sarahmck

As for that driving license thing, is that 6-month comment that the PP made still true? I'm currently taking driving lessons and haven't run across that. Also, if you qualify for "the 30% rule," you don't need a Dutch license. Baby is awake, no time to continue.

In answer to your question they did away with the accelerated possibility back in spring of 2005. I know that for certain b/c I had one of the last exam dates.


Ok, back on topic. I had a wonderful midwifery practice here in NL. They were very pro-nursing and I'm fairly certain one of the midwives is still nursing her 4 yr old. They even gave instructions on babywearing. I know they are not the norm. My DH and I loved their slide show presentation on BF it was 8 slides and 1 slide for FF. It cracked us up.
I was supposed to give birth in a unafflilated birthing center but was transfered to a hosipital on my request with labor that was lasting over 26 hrs and only progressing to 6 1/2 cm. I have a genetic form of anemia and I was exhausted and did not want to be forced into having a C.
I had basically had it with the birthcenter when I had puked in my bathwater and had to get out and they hadn't cleaned it up in over and 1 1/2hrs. I just wanted back in tub with my back labor b/c the shower and the birthing ball weren't cutting it. In the end I was delivered by and OB but my midwife stayed with me as long as she possibly could. The after care was great with one of the midwives stopping by daily to chat and examine my DD and myself and give BF advice when necessary.

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by lostintnl

In answer to your question they did away with the accelerated possibility back in spring of 2005. I know that for certain b/c I had one of the last exam dates.

Unless, like Sarah mentioned, you fall under the 30% rule. Then you're able to exchange your U.S. license for a Dutch license. Only catch is that the 30% rule applies mostly to temporary scientific workers, not immigrants.

[SuzymomofLaura]

Originally Posted by sarahmck

In The Netherlands, being a midwife is a normal thing, like being a nurse. So in the case of most midwives, that passion isn't there. They aren't committed in their very souls to natural birth at home without interventions. There are a variety of interventions that I'm told (anecdotally) are common, such as breaking of water and even episiotomies. And there are strict guidelines about hospital transfer and most midwives aren't terribly inclined to go against those guidelines because, again, they aren't passionate about homebirth. So if you have meconium, they want to transfer. If you need to push for more than two hours for a first baby or one for a subsequent baby, they want to transfer.

Sad enough, the above is true, BUT... it helps a lot if you are passionate about homebirth yourself, and interview your midwife thoroughly beforehand. It's common practice for midwives to work in a 'praktijk' with five or more midwives. Which one will assist you when the time comes, will depend on who is on call. Some are VERY committed, some are just plain awful.

[sadiejane08]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

Unless, like Sarah mentioned, you fall under the 30% rule. Then you're able to exchange your U.S. license for a Dutch license. Only catch is that the 30% rule applies mostly to temporary scientific workers, not immigrants.

[Rant on] Which is so incredibly boneheaded, if you ask me. I mean, both groups are equally clueless as to Dutch driving rules. Why make one group take the test and just hand out licenses to the other? [Rant off]

I failed my expedited exam because I didn't get in the inside lane of a two-lane rotunda :. My driving instructor, whom I'd contracted for six or seven lessons before my test to make sure I knew everything I needed to know, assumed I knew everything I needed to know because I'd had a US license for 20 years. And thus I've been licenseless since October 2003. Too p***d to go through the hassle of the regular testing system.

It's worked out fine so far, thanks to such a bike- and bus-friendly country (and a Dutch husband who drives). And if I ever *need* to drive, if one of my kids is ever spouting blood or whatever, well . . . I know how to drive in NL .

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by sadiejane08

[Rant on] Which is so incredibly boneheaded, if you ask me. I mean, both groups are equally clueless as to Dutch driving rules. Why make one group take the test and just hand out licenses to the other? [Rant off]

I'm guessing for the same reason they give them an absolutely enormous tax break--to convince doctors, scientists, etc. to come work in a country that would otherwise seem like a bureaucratic and economic nightmare.

But, you're SO right about it being not a very bright choice of things to entice them with. My scientist husband has had 5 speeding tickets since we moved here--including 4 on one day! (don't get lost on the Groningen ring while going 6km over the speed limit) And the funny thing is we don't even own a car!

[sarahmck]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

I'm guessing for the same reason they give them an absolutely enormous tax break--to convince doctors, scientists, etc. to come work in a country that would otherwise seem like a bureaucratic and economic nightmare.

The thing is that EVERYONE I know who isn't actually Dutch is on the 30% rule. Not just a narrow definition of extremely technical people. Heck, even my DUTCH neighbors are on it because they lived outside of The Netherlands for a good 10 years or so, consecutively.

I am seriously the only person that I personally know who isn't Dutch and isn't on the 30% rule. And I know quite a few non-Dutch people via the American Women's Club.

[sadiejane08]

Originally Posted by sarahmck

I am seriously the only person that I personally know who isn't Dutch and isn't on the 30% rule. And I know quite a few non-Dutch people via the American Women's Club.

Well, let me double your numbers . Though you don't know me personally yet, but after the next 9 months together through all the ups and downs in the April DDC, we may well feel like war buddies

[lostintnl]

Count me in on not here with the 30% tax ruling. I married my Dutch DH and we didn't get that benefit.

I have lived in Tilburg and now in IJsselstein so my contacts with expats tend to revolve around ppl who moved here for a partner and not for a job.

I am part of a yahoo group for expat women in NL and the majority of us our here for our Dutch partners and not b/c of a work transfer. It is definitely a different perspective.

Lou-Anne
(who has her Dutch drivers license and is afraid to use it : )

[sarahmck]

Originally Posted by lostintnl

I am part of a yahoo group for expat women in NL and the majority of us our here for our Dutch partners and not b/c of a work transfer. It is definitely a different perspective.

Ooh, which group is that?

[lostintnl]

I'll send a PM with the info. I don't remember what mdc's rules are about other sites.

[sarahmck]

Thanks!