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Ahhh! My mom is considering Gardasil for my little sis because...

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
..."it protects against cervical cancer!"

She's actually been really great with me not having DD vaxed at all (I'm the first in the entire family to ever even consider not vaxing, so it's pretty much new to everyone else). But my little sister (14 years old) has friends right and left who's parents are worshipping Gardasil and one in particular is trying to convince my mom that my sister should get it.

A few things- first off, we're a strong Christian family so purity is a big value to us. I tried explaining to her from MY POV (definitely not science ) that in a roundabout way, giving my sister this shot is somewhat like giving her birth control "just in case", despite the fact that we don't agree with premarital sex and do what we can to teach and encourage waiting until marriage. But this other mom keeps saying "It's not JUST in case they have sex anytime soon...I'm SURE they'll have sex by the time their 40." (whatever the heck that means???)

Also, she's not concerned about HPV. The thing that hooked her was the stupid "prevents cervical cancer" plug. : (And I think that's what this other particulr mother is pushing, too...and she believes it herself) I explained to my mom that this vaccine isn't a "cervical cancer vaccine" like they tout it as. (that should totally be illegal, IMO) I tried explaining the different strains and the probability stuff and all that, but I'm not sure how much got through to her. I also reminded her that at the stage the vaccine is in, my sisters friends who've all already received the vax are literally GUINEA PIGS!

Oh yeah, and another thing...she kept saying, "Well, Dr. "W" (family friend and doctor) is all for it." Argh!! I told her she needs to read my vax books (she "sort of" read part of Stephanie Cave's book once) to understand the system better, because most doctors are PART of the vax business...and many times even the doctors don't have a clue to the other side.

Thankfully, she DOESN'T think my sister needs it right now. I said, "Okay, if you REALLY think K needs it, why does she have to get it right now?" and she said, "I know! That's what I think, too." ANd my dad was there when I was talking to her and he isn't concerned at all with my sister NOT getting the shot...he kinda thinks it's phooey (but of course, he hasn't had someone trying to convince him, either).

My MIL lost my copy of Mothering with the "Guard Against Gardasil" article in it but thankfully I found it online, so I'm going to pass that on to her. I just need to know what else I can help her understand. She's definatley not closed down to hearing me out- in fact she made it clear to the other mom that I "see things from the other side" (in a "hey, there might be more to this than you cared to consider" kind of way) and the mom kinda rolled her eyes and said, "She probably does." But she's never really considered the "other side" of vaccines until my DD came along so I want to make sure she's REALLY educated about all this now that it's come down to it.
post #2 of 46
Thread Starter 
Oh yeah, and I feel so crappy...I was actually there when this other mom was doing some more "convincing" with my mom at lunch a few days ago. And when my mom said that thing about me being on the other side, my grandma, who was also there (but thinks "gee, I hope you're right" about me not vaxing DD *sigh* ) said, "Okay, what's the OTHER side?" and was honestly giving me a chance to speak up. But I couldn't. I said, "I don't really like to discuss it with people because everyone just argues with me" since I KNOW none of them have done any opposing research. But I felt like that was an opportunity that I shot down because I'm a wimp. I still don't really know how to handle this no-vax thing when it comes to opportunities to share vs. opportunities to have people argue.
post #3 of 46
Do you have the recent Mothering issue that had an article of Gardasil> If so, you might want to copy it and give it to your mom. You can highlight the important parts if you think she might just skim it or not read it all. It might be posted on the magazine site, I'm not sure?
post #4 of 46
post #5 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
Do you have the recent Mothering issue that had an article of Gardasil> If so, you might want to copy it and give it to your mom. You can highlight the important parts if you think she might just skim it or not read it all. It might be posted on the magazine site, I'm not sure?
That's the issue my MIL lost and I was able to find that article online...I emailed it to my mom and I've been telling her I wanted her to read it so I'm sure she will.

Thanks for the links!
post #6 of 46
Now, a little off topic, but kinda on since it's still about Gardasil ... I just saw an ad on TV for the Gardasil "vax" and it was pushing asking about it at "your daughter's back to school checkup."

I thought that Garadisil couldn't "push" their drug on teen girls anymore ... or is that just a pipe dream of mine?

Or is that school districts can require the drug?
post #7 of 46
They try to make it sound like people are catching cervical cancer from licking the railings on the subway.
post #8 of 46
School districts can't require any drug or vax! "Ask about it at you8r daughter's back-to-school checkup" is just part of the ad, giving parents an opportunity in the very near future to ask about it.

And as for backing down from opportunities to educate people about not vaxing, I think you're making the right decision by not discussing it. In some sutuations, dealing with other issues, I feel it's worth discussing. But not this. IMHO this is too big of an issue to talk about over lunch or anything else. Just knowing you don't vax is enough for others to know, and in many cases too much. People have to do their own research, and you can't help them along that journey if they won't listen to you. If it comes up, just say you don't vax and that they might consider doing their own research. Then leave it be. You can't help people if they refuse to be helped. Arguing with you is a way of refusing to be helped. Ideally, they'd respect your decision, ask you about your reasons for not vaxing, and agree to do their own research--if only to understand your opinion better.

But until that happens, IMHO it's best not to discuss it.
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post
They try to make it sound like people are catching cervical cancer from licking the railings on the subway.


post #10 of 46
Oh, and has anyone considered letting your sister make the decision whether or not to get the vax? She's old enough to research it if she wants to, to weigh the risks and benefits--if there are any--etc. Sometimes we don't give kids credit for knowing as much as they do and being able to make their own decisions about things like this.
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrskennedy View Post
School districts can't require any vax!
But states can, and then the school districts enforce it.
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
But states can, and then the school districts enforce it.
i think shes saying they cant REQUIRE them, as in make them mandatory, but they can make them umm..sound that way.

op...yeah, id let your sis research it, honestly..

i dont understand how its legal for them to be all " cervical cancr vaccine" crap because its NOT, its supposed to protect against hpv strains tht could potentially cause cervical cancer, but they dont want to tell you that much..talk about scare tactics . :sigh: if you read their literature how is this not obvious?
oh, yeah. no one reads it because they go alone with the hype

i hope your mom listens, and your sis has some say. i wouldnt go to a doc at that age, so there wasnt a way to make me if i had been trying to be forced into it, lol ( neither of my parents could pick me up, and i said no, so too bad)
anyway i hope they figure out that its ridiculously hyped nd NOT at all what the commercials try to make it seem!
post #13 of 46
Thread Starter 
I honestly don't think my sister really understands how to research something like this, and in all truth she probably wouldn't and since most of the girls around her are getting the shot and it's "all the rage" these days, I don't think it'd do much good (just knowing my sister). She's at an age where she DOES have the ability to research herself, but what she actually gets from it is a totally different thing.
post #14 of 46
I personally think bringing "values" into the debate of Guardisil has been devestating. It just confuses the issue.

I think Pharma spinmasters kept promoting it because most people do not to want to appear that they agree that it promotes sex, since that argument isn't exactly the strongest. Sorry to say if you disagree.

Show her the VAERS results for Gaurdisil and let her understand that there is risk if you think she is mature enough.
post #15 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmasbaby7 View Post
I personally think bringing "values" into the debate of Guardisil has been devestating. It just confuses the issue.

I think Pharma spinmasters kept promoting it because most people do not to want to appear that they agree that it promotes sex, since that argument isn't exactly the strongest. Sorry to say if you disagree.

Show her the VAERS results for Gaurdisil and let her understand that there is risk if you think she is mature enough.
For an individual family, it can be one of the most important "arguments" in the issue, whether it confuses it for others or not.
post #16 of 46
I'd have to actually look up how many types of HPV exist, but i'm pretty sure it's in the hundreds, at least. Vaccinating against less than 10 (i'm guessing here too) doesn't seem like a very high success rate, considering an upward of 85% of the population has some type of HPV.

My second point, and i could be wrong on this too, but the last time i was researching into it, two types of HPV they vaccinate for (types 6 and 11 i believe) are the two types of HPV LEAST likely to cause cervical cancer.
post #17 of 46
This is a vaccine I keep flip floping on. I am undecided, but I have lots of time before my girls will be there. I read stuff from both sides. It does cover only 4 strains and two of them, 6&11 only cover HPV that causes warts NOT cancer, BUT the other two, 16&18 are responsible for 70% of cervical cancer cases. And over several years vaccinated women have had lower incidence of high grade cancer. Does you mom know it is THREE doses? I don't like that. The purity argument can be a good one, but I keep thinking what if my girls do wait but marry someone who didn't wait! They could still pass HPV to her anyway.................I guess I say all this conflicting stuff to say tell your mom to WAIT! No sense rushing in to inject your sister with chemicals that have no long term studies.

Let us know what she decides.
post #18 of 46
I have to strongly disagree that getting a vaccine against a sexually transmitted infection is like giving a teenager birth control "just in case."

HPV is astonishingly prevalent in the population, and asymptomatic in males. That means that your little sister may one day contract HPV without ever doing anything that even mildly contradicts your family's values - she may only ever have sex with her husband, who may never know that he's infected (because he could have gotten the virus from a blood transfusion or from an adolescent romantic folly he's long since repented) until his beloved wife has an abnormal pap smear.

I think it's fine to argue that your sister shouldn't get the vaccine because you don't think it works, because you don't think HPV is the problem that Merck would have you believe, because you feel the vaccine is inadequately tested and/or inadequately safe, but the concerns about sexual purity always read to me as a statement that sexual purity is more important than women's health.
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julz6871 View Post
This is a vaccine I keep flip floping on. I am undecided, but I have lots of time before my girls will be there. I read stuff from both sides. It does cover only 4 strains and two of them, 6&11 only cover HPV that causes warts NOT cancer, BUT the other two, 16&18 are responsible for 70% of cervical cancer cases. And over several years vaccinated women have had lower incidence of high grade cancer. Does you mom know it is THREE doses? I don't like that. The purity argument can be a good one, but I keep thinking what if my girls do wait but marry someone who didn't wait! They could still pass HPV to her anyway.................I guess I say all this conflicting stuff to say tell your mom to WAIT! No sense rushing in to inject your sister with chemicals that have no long term studies.

Let us know what she decides.
You do know that this vaccine has not been studied for several years ~ meaning there is not a test group that has been studied for any great length of time. The efficiancy of this vaccine is truly guesswork at best. While those two strains are responsible for some cervical cancer ~ most people get those strains and resolve them on their own w/o ever getting cervical cancer. If the same amount of money spent on promoting this vaccine was spent on promoting the need for appropriate prevention of transmission and/or preventative care (paps) ~ I think it would go a lot further to prevent cervical cancer then this vaccine ever could. Not to mention taking some of those funds and giving grants for the lower income portion of the population who cannot otherwise afford preventative care (and thus are the portion of the population most at risk).
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1babysmom View Post
For an individual family, it can be one of the most important "arguments" in the issue, whether it confuses it for others or not.
If you wouldn't mind indulging me, I would love to know what you mean since HPV is the least of reasons a teenage girl should not be having sex. There are so many other more crucial reasons for a young woman to abstain: more serious infections, unwanted pregancy, etc.

So I guess I just don't get it.
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