required reading for highschool - Page 3

[mtiger]

Our experience has been much as Meg (above) wrote. The Honors program pretty well skips anything to do with the "regular" required reading (Call of the Wild for 10th) beyond checking that the book was actually read (the regular English classes do take a test, Honors has the reading journal). The other required reading is "tested" via in-class essays and discussions. They allow for the class to get right into it from day one, instead of having a lead time for the kids to read.

Really, though - how is having required reading over the summer (especially if it allows for the class to start immediately on the same page) different than having required reading during the school year? How is a teacher to teach (especially an advanced class) when they're all reading something different?

Meg - I do have a more specific question for you (I'd happily take it private or to a new thread if that's better). How do you handle the use of Spark Notes by your students? After my son slogging through Great Expectations last year and really having to work at that AND on the related assignments, we discovered that all but one other student never read the book, but relied on SNs to get through. Granted, he learned more than the others likely did, but it was very frustrating to him. We've agreed that SNs have a place - AFTER the book's been read - but it would seem to me that a teacher of an advanced class would skew things so that not reading the book wasn't an option. Thoughts?

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Our experience has been much as Meg (above) wrote. The Honors program pretty well skips anything to do with the "regular" required reading (Call of the Wild for 10th) beyond checking that the book was actually read (the regular English classes do take a test, Honors has the reading journal). The other required reading is "tested" via in-class essays and discussions. They allow for the class to get right into it from day one, instead of having a lead time for the kids to read.

Really, though - how is having required reading over the summer (especially if it allows for the class to start immediately on the same page) different than having required reading during the school year? How is a teacher to teach (especially an advanced class) when they're all reading something different?

Meg - I do have a more specific question for you (I'd happily take it private or to a new thread if that's better). How do you handle the use of Spark Notes by your students?

Natural consequences, of course.
My essay tests are pretty simple. I pick a random (but revealing/important) quote from the book and ask the writer to explain this quotation in context, analyze it, and explore in what way that quotation reveals the writer's point. If they've read the Cliffs Notes, they're generally screwed because their observations are basically not going to be much better than superficial. Superficial observations, in my class, basically get one a "D."

For what it's worth, I don't mind if they use Spark Notes to help them understand the book. I mind if they read the Spark Notes instead of the book.

After my son slogging through Great Expectations last year and really having to work at that AND on the related assignments, we discovered that all but one other student never read the book, but relied on SNs to get through. Granted, he learned more than the others likely did, but it was very frustrating to him. We've agreed that SNs have a place - AFTER the book's been read - but it would seem to me that a teacher of an advanced class would skew things so that not reading the book wasn't an option. Thoughts?

That's also why I do the reading journal. If you're having to respond to specific quotations throughout the journal -- actually, as the major material OF the journal -- it becomes more of a PITA to use the Spark Notes than not. There's no way to prevent cheating, though, not really.

I just thought of this, though -- most of the items on my list are NOT fiction; therefore, they are far less likely to have been Cliffs Notes'd or Pink Monkeyed or Sparked. Could that also be why the teacher in the OP's post chose Kite Runner, Angela's Ashes, and such? I wouldn't be surprised, now that I come to think of it.

[mtiger]

Sigh.... sadly, it would seem that most of the essay Q's came straight from Cliffs and Sparks. Something I plan to address at the start of the coming year.

My take on those aids is the same as yours. Great to help in solidifying the points, review, etc. Not as a replacement. I was actually shocked to learn that Honors students would go there. Color moi naive.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by mtiger

Sigh.... sadly, it would seem that most of the essay Q's came straight from Cliffs and Sparks. Something I plan to address at the start of the coming year.

My take on those aids is the same as yours. Great to help in solidifying the points, review, etc. Not as a replacement. I was actually shocked to learn that Honors students would go there. Color moi naive.

Sorry that this is totally OT by now, but have you ever heard of a plagiarism detection service known as www.turnitin.com?

That has helped prevent plagiarism in my school a LOT. Nothing's perfect, but this has really helped.

[folkypoet]

Another unschooler here.

On the topic of the OP, I have to admit, I read Steinbeck's The Red Pony in 8th grade and felt traumatized by it. "Too tender-hearted" was my mother's way of putting it. That story haunted me for quite a while. :

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

Also an unschooler...

I think required fictional reading is crazy dumb. I don't care how classic Gone With the Wind or War and Peace are. If someone isn't into it they shouldn't have to read it.

By high school, I had stopped reading required books. Period. I didn't read a single one until college. I was too busy reading lots of other interesting books (many of them "classics" and "new classics" with heavy themes of their own), and I refused to spend my time reading what other people thought I should. I figured I had better things to do with my days. Acing the tests was easy - even in advanced and AP classes. I just listened to the discussions. Didn't even need the Cliff's Notes. Probably says more about the teachers than it does about me.

Had I been given at least some choice in the matter - say, choose three books from this list - I probably would have picked up at least a few. But, as it was, slogging through books that held no interest for me wasn't a top priority.

I did read many of those required books later, and I fell in love with several of them, plowing through everything the authors had written. But, if I'd actually read them at the time, I'm fairly certain they would have left a sour taste in my mouth. And that sour taste can be hard to get rid of, even years down the road. That's what concerns me about required reading. I know that many people have been introduced to books in high school that changed their lives, but I'll bet there are quite a few others out there who will never read another "classic" because of their required reading experiences.

Originally Posted by sunflowers

I guess I'm a bit of a failure in that area of parenting. I'm the one mom on MDC whose child does not seem seem to value reading and he doesn't listen to his mom when she makes suggestions like that! I can accept ds for who he is- a kid who prefers to use his hands and manipulate things rather than use his eyes to stimulate his imagination. Not every child loves to read and the reading lists are a tool I can use to encourage ds to try something he wouldn't otherwise choose on his own.

You should read through some of the posts on the Learning at Home and Beyond board. There are tons of kids out there who would rather do than read, and they're just as well-rounded as the bookworms (often more so).

[Alenushka]

HOnestely, mos of the teenager live a pretty charmed life in US.....compare to many places on Earth
Getting a dose of relaity from Angela Ashe is not that bad of an idea.
And really..."Hamlet", "Crime and Punishment" or many other classisc are far more traumatazing

[mtiger]

I read The Kite Runner on Saturday. Excellent book. Absolutely excellent. Handed it over to my 15yo to read. My 13yo is next on the list.

[Petronella]

The thing is, most books only say "life sucks and then you die" as you put it, if you're LOOKING for that as the message. And IME, teenagers are better at finding uplifting themes than adults are. I read 'The Road' by Cormac McCarthy and just found it incredibly sad, but my 12-yo dd read it and found it a beautiful, bittersweet story about the love between a father and his son. The gory parts didn't even get to her.

Feel free to disagree, just my two cents.

[mags.bubble]

Originally Posted by widdlelou

I don't have a teenager, but I can give you the point of view of a high school teacher (well now I'm a sahm). For many english classes they aren't totally going with "classics" to teach the students. And classics change, there are new classics. I think Sylvia Plath's the Bell Jar is a classic. Its a pivitol book full of deep thought, and very well written. Its a book I think that is great to read, full of femist thought and thought provoking issues. Its a book that forces deep thinking and a great book to discuss. And bravo for them requiring such deep literature. Native Son is also an important book. I believe I read this in middle school or 9th Grade, it delves into racisim and African American culture during segregation and a whole slue of issues. And Anglea's Ashes is terrific as well. Plus its adding Irish culture and the relgious conflicts and effects of poverty on a person/family/people.

These books are made to hook kids into the class. They need to be deep enough that it will draw out questions and thoughts through their own study and so they can journal them easily. I think that many classics are dealing with many depressing isues. Most of the classics are. And yes there are some sexuality in some of these books, its not the main theme. But you are talking about teenagers here. They are dealing with heavy issues, sexuality and the like. And its good to find different point of view and such in these books. Its what makes literature exciting and important. Most the books I read in high school were kind of depressing, but thats not going to lead a kid to be depressed, but it will give them an intersting point of view that I think will only enhance their life.

Oh and to add one more thing... I think its important also for every once in a while to have a student read a book that manybe they would not probably choose by themselves. It opens up their minds to something new -- new poitn of view, new way of thinking etc. And that is important as well. But taht is imho

Well said, thanks for this response.

To the OP, I have at dc16. At a time when it is hard to find commom ground between us I love reading what they are reading. We may talk about little blurbs from the book or she may ask a question or two. I don't expect her to "discuss" with me, but when she does her project once school starts I find I can really 'share' the experience with her. It is a small way of connecting in a time when she really doesn't openly communicate with her dad and I.

Maggie

[spero]

Wow, the books on the required list make Catcher in the Rye, Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon, and Animal Farm - all books that were struck from the English cirriculum in my school in the early 80s, but still made available for us to read on our own for extra credit (I did) - seem tame!

My 14-yo freshman DD is a very mature and voracious reader, and chooses great, challenging books for herself; but I know that Angela's Ashes would just be too much for her. She's extremely sensitive, and knowing that this was a true story she would definitely be traumatized. That's not to say she couldn't handle it when she's a junior or a senior, but right now she couldn't handle it.

I like to see that The Curious Incident of the Dog at Nighttime is on some lists! That is an awesome book - one that even my reading-challenged 16-yo loved.

I'm not a fan of school-"required" summer anything. My DD had to complete a major science project over the past summer, due the first day of school, and I thought that sucked! My kids (except for the aformentioned reading challenged DS) all read over the summer, we are at the library 2-3 X/week during that time. Summer is down time for kids, IMO; and should not include "required" work for school.