Everything has changed... - Page 2

[TigerTail]

?

I was relating it to the loss of bonding at birth, from the doped-out thing. It might be easier to subject a nb you hadn't even seen for hours after birthing to that kind of experience, along with the whole medicalization of birth.

I know Queen Victoria, in her own words, had difficulty bonding with the children she had after she'd begun having the trendy chloroform births.

[fruitful womb]

ALL of you guys are so lucky.

I read somewhere once, just after my ds#1 was born, (everyone knows what happened to him), there was a young mother who lived in a house full of men, on her own. She had a boy, her first child and when the nurse asked her if she wanted to circumcise the mother said, "No are you out of your mind?" She was harassed by the doctors and other nurses. She stuck to her guns and blaitenly cussed everyone out for thinking of such a horrible thing. They threaten to take the child away from her and in the end she kept her baby whole and went home from the hospital. Later, after her ds was 9ys she watched an actual circ video. She cried so hard. While she held her son sobbing, he said, "Mom its okay that didn't happen to me, its alright mom."

This was on some forum back in 2000. She wrote that she HATED mothers who allow this to happen to their sons. This mother expressed a lot of anger towards ignorant mothers.

As guilty as I feel, and as STUPID as I was... I'm green with envy that you all were so lucky to have a solid backbone, and was influenced in such a way that it saved your babies.

My hats off to you Mamas.:

[tuansprincess]

I was just talking about this with my dh the other day. (Ok, I was doing all the talking, but anyway! )

Dh is Vietnamese and intact. We got pregnant and knew we wouldn't circ if it was a boy. Our dd was born and I went on my merry way. 9 mos ago we had a son. An (ex) friend is preg w/ a boy and still planning to circ. I did weeks worth of research and due to both I am now extremely anti-circ. I was incredulous at how un-informed I was and nonchalant about the issue before. I actually feel disgusted with myself that I wasted so many years doing nothing to save other little boys. But - I am doing what I can now.

[DklovesMkandJK]

All I can say is AMEN!

[bluetoes]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

?

I was relating it to the loss of bonding at birth, from the doped-out thing. It might be easier to subject a nb you hadn't even seen for hours after birthing to that kind of experience, along with the whole medicalization of birth.

I know Queen Victoria, in her own words, had difficulty bonding with the children she had after she'd begun having the trendy chloroform births.

True. Thankfully these days even in the most medicalised birth you're given the baby very quicky (unless something is wrong or you're asleep because of an emegency c-section) and even if you beg them it's nearly impossible to get anything that would make you woozy (at least where I had the wee man). Twilight births were just so wrong.

They could have stopped my heart with demoral and I would still have been telling anyone who would list NO CIRC NO CIRC NO CIRC! I had no attachment to the baby next door and I would have been screaming it for him too!

Anyway, back on topic, a friend of mine IRL just desribed me as 'passionate' when I really care about something, I am sure referring to my circ. is evil rants I go on sometimes. I just can't get across to her that it's because I imagine those little boys to be my little boy and i can't help but care. I am trying to plant the seed in her to not do it but I don't think I am having much luck since she's not saying anything back.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

just after my ds#1 was born, (everyone knows what happened to him)

I've only heard some of the story, I don't really know what happened. Are you ready to share it?

[BabyJay'sMom]

I feel the same way. I think it is fascinating how militant my beliefs have become now that I KNOW I made the right decision for my son.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

it's not surprising that the rise of ric in victorian times coincides with the advent of using ether/chloroform on birthing mothers.

Exactly! Read this essay:

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by eepster

I've only heard some of the story, I don't really know what happened. Are you ready to share it?

Here is my story.
Its a bit long and it has a few grammatical errors. I'll relive it and clean it up shortly. Its what I plan to use for the ARC. I'm ready to share it. It'll make you hate me for sure.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

Here is my story.
Its a bit long and it has a few grammatical errors. I'll relive it and clean it up shortly. Its what I plan to use for the ARC. I'm ready to share it. It'll make you hate me for sure.

You said no once that should have been enough, but they didn't like the answer so they came back when you were drugged and exausted hoping for one more to their liking.

They did the same to me the only difference was that my mother had warned me it would happen so I was better prepared. When she first warned me I thought she was paranoid.

We won't hate you for losing the battle, we will hate the medical establishment for drafting you into the war.

[fruitful womb]

: Thanks, your support means a lot.

Your so lucky you were warned! I'm curios to know what influenced you mamas that made you not do it? Some of you mentioned it already. Some, I'd like to hear your journey to the intact decision. The FIRST time around you saved your first son.

If you notice, Parents aren't the ones asking doctor's to circumcise their sons. The doctor's are asking the parents if they can do this to his/her patient w/o the patients consent of course.

I BET if doctors and nurses simply stop asking, then the parents wouldn't think twice about it. Better yet, instead of asking parents permission to do the surgery they should explain to parents how to care for their intact son. That'll be the day.:

"Circumcision has been called "criminal assault" by more than one legal scholar since it is illegal to allow a non-medical/non-therapeutic procedure to be done to a child's body." J.A.C. (emphasis added)

Surgery in the absence of disease violates a Doctor's number one sacred dictum, "Prenum Non Nocre" The Hippocratic Oath:"First Do No Harm".

[bluetoes]

Originally Posted by A&A

It's correlational, not causational.

Exactly. I won't lie to you guys. I am into a lot of aspects of natural living but drugs give me drugs was my birthing philosophy. (although requests for something to take the edge off or calm me down were ignored as it would affect the baby thankfully!) Having said that they could have stopped my heart with morphine and I would have still been screaming NO CIRC NO CIRC NO CIRC since I was so frightened we wouldn't escape for circ. mountain!

However I will most certainly agree is that circumcision is VERY much a feminist issue. So many men bully their partners into and women won't stand up for themselves. They listen to paternalistic old school doctors telling them what's best to do instead of listening to their own instincts.

[stacey0402]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

: Thanks, your support means a lot.

Your so lucky you were warned! I'm curios to know what influenced you mamas that made you not do it? Some of you mentioned it already. Some, I'd like to hear your journey to the intact decision. The FIRST time around you saved your first son.

If you notice, Parents aren't the ones asking doctor's to circumcise their sons. The doctor's are asking the parents if they can do this to his/her patient w/o the patients consent of course.

I BET if doctors and nurses simply stop asking, then the parents wouldn't think twice about it. Better yet, instead of asking parents permission to do the surgery they should explain to parents how to care for their intact son. That'll be the day.:

"Circumcision has been called "criminal assault" by more than one legal scholar since it is illegal to allow a non-medical/non-therapeutic procedure to be done to a child's body." J.A.C. (emphasis added)

Surgery in the absence of disease violates a Doctor's number one sacred dictum, "Prenum Non Nocre" The Hippocratic Oath:"First Do No Harm".

I'll share my journey with you when I have a second to get it all out, but I hinted at it in the post above this

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

Here is my story.
Its a bit long and it has a few grammatical errors. I'll relive it and clean it up shortly. Its what I plan to use for the ARC. I'm ready to share it. It'll make you hate me for sure.

Don't feel bad for a minute!!! I had a similar L&D with my first son. The nurses lied to me, wouldn't let me out of bed ( i wanted to walk around) threatened me if I didn't get an epidural my baby would die, the crap went on for hours. Fortunately they "let" me take my baby home intact, unfortunately, my parents and my ILs cried and bitched until we finally consented to a circ. Soon thereafter we (DH, DS, and I) moved out of state, soon after that we were divorced (my xDH has since gone on to circ two more sons). It's been a big issue in my life. I am Jewish and DH is not, go figure. I have also had two more sons. NOT circed.

Currently, I am a RN, I work in a NICU where luckily we don't perform circ. Unfortunately, again, so many F-d up stupid people in this country, almost every american parent of a boy wants to talk about cutting their boy's penis, even if their baby can't even F-ing breathe yet, has brain injuries, whatever, "when will you circumcise him?" I just want to slap every last one of them.

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by stacey0402

I used to work on a post-partum unit (I was young and pre-kids). I cannot tell you how many times a mother would weep as I wheeled her baby boy away for his circ. It always baffled me the way the mom would beg me to take the baby away quickly. I told one mother, "You know you don't have to do this, right?" and she just insisted I take him quickly. The Circ room was just across the hall from her and I know she heard every scream.

FTR: I did not perform circs, I was only a med tech. I "helped" during the procedure by trying to calm the poor babies. Not a chance in hell I'd be able to do that job today. No way. I'm feeling rather militant in my anti-circ stance today. Back then I knew I wouldn't do it to my son, but it didn't affect me that other families chose this.

I'm just speechless. I can barely type my words here. The whole, "Take my baby quickly" Is INSANE! Then they cry that it was done? I'm in shock. There is NO education going on in those hs. Correct me if I'm wrong, Marylin Milos got fired for showing a circ video to her patients and to almost every, no EVERY patient she talked to she manage to convince them to leave their son intact. Did you get repremended for suggesting to the mothers that they didn't have to do this?

What would it be like today if a intactivist nurse showed a video and did surgery counseling to the parents? Would she get fired?

Originally Posted by mara

I am Jewish and DH is not, go figure. I have also had two more sons. NOT circed.

Currently, I am a RN, I work in a NICU where luckily we don't perform circ. Unfortunately, again, so many F-d up stupid people in this country, almost every american parent of a boy wants to talk about cutting their boy's penis, even if their baby can't even F-ing breathe yet, has brain injuries, whatever, "when will you circumcise him?" I just want to slap every last one of them.

That is wild.

Our culture is psychologically damaging young girls who might have sons one day. Deep down, no mother wants to do this. You rape the baby, you violate the Mother and Dad is a victim too. And the cycle continues. And for what?

I think the only influence I had was too little too late. Had I been conditioned like I am now, I would've been viciously protective of my son.

Are you guys apart of the Nurses for the Right of the Child NRC organization?

[mommy_e]

Originally Posted by stacey0402

I just can't believe how much my perspective has changed since having my son.

I agree. My extended family has two boys who were circed before I even was pregnant and I was slightly sad at the time. I knew it wasn't necessary, but wasn't that passionate. Now that I have three intact boys, the thought of anyone doing that to them makes me nauseated. I have to limit my time on anti-circ sites, even this one, because it gets me very depressed to think about it.

[stacey0402]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

I'm just speechless. I can barely type my words here. The whole, "Take my baby quickly" Is INSANE! Then they cry that it was done? I'm in shock. There is NO education going on in those hs. Correct me if I'm wrong, Marylin Milos got fired for showing a circ video to her patients and to almost every, no EVERY patient she talked to she manage to convince them to leave their son intact. Did you get repremended for suggesting to the mothers that they didn't have to do this?

What would it be like today if a intactivist nurse showed a video and did surgery counseling to the parents? Would she get fired?



That is wild.

Our culture is psychologically damaging young girls who might have sons one day. Deep down, no mother wants to do this. You rape the baby, you violate the Mother and Dad is a victim too. And the cycle continues. And for what?

I think the only influence I had was too little too late. Had I been conditioned like I am now, I would've been viciously protective of my son.

Are you guys apart of the Nurses for the Right of the Child NRC organization

I never got in trouble, but I don't think the patients would have ever said anything. A few of the pediatricians I worked with would tell me that there was no way they'd do that to their own sons, but I don't think they did any education with the parents.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by fruitful womb

Your so lucky you were warned! I'm curios to know what influenced you mamas that made you not do it? Some of you mentioned it already. Some, I'd like to hear your journey to the intact decision. The FIRST time around you saved your first son.

My dad is Irish (as in born in Cork) therefore intact, and firmly of the belief that unless one has the reason we can't discuss for circ'ing that there is no reason too. My mom had us before ultrasounds or amnios were around, so they had no way of knowing my sisters and I would all be girls. They had been through making sure that every one in the hospital knew if they had a son they didn't want to circ back in the '60s and '70s. On top of that my eldest sister had circ'd which took us all by surprise, so this time she wasn't just assuming that I knew better and wouldn't be swayed by Drs while vulnerable.