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Why can't she like Polly Pocket and other froo froo stuff? - Page 7

post #121 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
O.K.
What would have been the right thing to do? And why?
I would have sent the list of books home with the kids and asked the parents if they had any objections to the books. If so, I'd ask the child of that family to go play while reading that book.

Same thing if someone brought a "Christmas" book or a book that was blatantly patriotic. There are non-Christians and there are people who don't feel that that we need to toot American horn any more than it's already being tooted. I'm sure there are many other subjects that should be closely considered.

Eventually, when they are older and are able to understand these things better, they will get exposed to them.
post #122 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
...Allie brought a book called "Sarah has two Mommies" (not the real title, I can't remember it) Allie brought it on her own. Her Mom said "I swear, I didn't pick this one, I tried to tell her to bring Chicka Chicka boom boom".

So. What should I do? This would NOT be O.K with Zach's parents. It might even upset a few other parents. BUT, it was important to Allie.

What would have been the right thing to do? And why?
In my opinion, there is no "right" answer to your question, though I'm inclined to very closely consider Allie's wishes--more closely than the various parents. : To put it another way, if Allie and Zach are best friends, then sooner or later it's going to come up anyway, and Zach's parents will have to deal with it, "it" being the way to communicate their own prejudices to a very young child.

I'm more curious about what you did do about it, since this was back in May....
post #123 of 186
Me too, how did you react to that scenario?
post #124 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
Me too, how did you react to that scenario?
Well, since Allie's Mom would never push her veiws on anybody, and is one of my best friends, AND, I adore this kid. She has a special wisdom about her. KWIM? So, I couldn't NOT read her book. She's too smart for that.

SO, I emailed the parents, and all of them EXCEPT Zach's parents were totally fine with it. Zach's mom was uncomfortable, but she also ADORES Allie. So, she said, read it, but just once please.

It was an O.K book, but a little old for my kids, so I lost a few of them before the second page. Last year, most of my kids were more of the ten words on a page or less kind of group. They love a repetitive book. Like Silly Sally, or The big hungry Bear.

I was glad I read it.
post #125 of 186
Only read the first couple pages but....I'm currently in the process of looking for childcare for when I go back to work. Most daycares around here have waiting lists of 2+ years and day home spaces are mighty scarce and you usually can't book a spot or choose a nanny until 2 months before you go back to work. I'm jealous of the posters who had the luxury of rejecting a daycare because of polly pockets and plastic toys. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of commercialized toys. But it's a way bigger deal for me to find a gentle, positive care provider for my daughter in a location that's close enough to my home or work that I'm not spending extra time away from my kid commuting. Big picture, people.
post #126 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nina_yyc View Post
Only read the first couple pages but....I'm currently in the process of looking for childcare for when I go back to work. Most daycares around here have waiting lists of 2+ years and day home spaces are mighty scarce and you usually can't book a spot or choose a nanny until 2 months before you go back to work. I'm jealous of the posters who had the luxury of rejecting a daycare because of polly pockets and plastic toys. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of commercialized toys. But it's a way bigger deal for me to find a gentle, positive care provider for my daughter in a location that's close enough to my home or work that I'm not spending extra time away from my kid commuting. Big picture, people.

That's what I'm thinking too. My daycare friends think I'm insane to carry a baby all day on my back or tied to me in any way. They think I am crazy for liking cloth diapers. They don't think a daycare with no timeout can run smoothly. But, it does. I keep telling them, "hey, this works".

I'm not all that good about the foods though. We eat what the kids like within reason, and I rarely buy organic foods. Most Moms here would croak if they saw what we eat. It's healthy by most standards, though, but I could definatly improve.

But, all this talk about Waldorf schools? That doesn't exist here. If it did, it would be out of most parent's price range. I have all teacher's kids, I have to be reasonably priced.
post #127 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrennaMama View Post
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and makes unrealistic demands of it's duck-care-provider, I'm gonna call it a controlling duck.. no judgements, just observation.
best quote of the day...
post #128 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nina_yyc View Post
I'm jealous of the posters who had the luxury of rejecting a daycare because of polly pockets and plastic toys. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of commercialized toys. But it's a way bigger deal for me to find a gentle, positive care provider for my daughter in a location that's close enough to my home or work that I'm not spending extra time away from my kid commuting. Big picture, people.
Well, that's the thing. We were very lucky in finding a home-based daycare close to our home and both our workplaces, with a very loving provider. Dd loves the other kids there. They do craft projects, dance, sing, play dress up (with frou-frou princess stuff), play outside for hours....I can deal with Dora the Explorer somehow entering our lives in the process.

I think dd's more into the monkey, in any case.
post #129 of 186
Quote:
But, all this talk about Waldorf schools? That doesn't exist here. If it did, it would be out of most parent's price range. I have all teacher's kids, I have to be reasonably priced.
DH and I earn teacher-level salaries and DD's daycare (no character toys, mostly open-ended and natural materials) is very affordable for us. (DD's daycare does not actually advertise itself as a Montessori or Waldorf school.) Although I think there is an association between Montessori and Waldorf and price, it definitely doesn't have to be that way....there's no real reason the philosophy has to cost more. I suppose the materials are slightly more expensive, but only if you buy a lot of premade stuff.

Quote:
Now she picks up sticks and points them at me saying she'll kill me. Teachable moment? Hell yeah. "Dd, pirates were dangerous bad men that hurt a lot of people. Killing is wrong, and we are gentle and loving... Did you know Mommy worked on boats? Want to see some pictures? I was a fisher-woman, and I followed whales. Wanna see?" Princesses. She is innundated by Princesses. Teachability... yep! "Dd, Princesses ought to be gracious, educated, compassionate, and inspiring. They need to learn and grow and be virtuous so that they may grow to be Queens and take care of their land and the people who live there... Would you like to see a book about a Queen in Egypt?"
And yet, I'd certainly rather protect my child from violent movies and princess-obsession a bit longer till she can absorb the subtleties of my explanations a bit better. I mean, from this POV, anything, including The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, could be a "teachable moment," right? ("DD, cutting people up with chainsaws is a very bad thing to do.")

Quote:
Why are some parents so vehemently opposed to "character" items, (I know why I dislike Bratz, and why I don't love Barbie stuff...) like the Disney Princesses, and Polly Pocket? What is behind the fear of or dislike of "crass commercialism"?
I'm opposed to thehighly gendered, commercial character play for a number of reasons. 1, It's all intended to make children buy and watch, and I find the marketing machine repulsive and insidious; 2, I think it's very limiting of children's imaginations, and imagination is very, very precious to me; 3, I think all the highly-gendered play and separate expectations are extremely rigid and harms kids who are not "gender-typical" (my own DD would never have cuddlked the blocks in a million years); and 4, I believe it sets boys and girls up as people who won't ever be expected to enjoy each other, understand each other or speak the same language.
post #130 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nina_yyc View Post
Only read the first couple pages but....I'm currently in the process of looking for childcare for when I go back to work. Most daycares around here have waiting lists of 2+ years and day home spaces are mighty scarce and you usually can't book a spot or choose a nanny until 2 months before you go back to work. I'm jealous of the posters who had the luxury of rejecting a daycare because of polly pockets and plastic toys. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of commercialized toys. But it's a way bigger deal for me to find a gentle, positive care provider for my daughter in a location that's close enough to my home or work that I'm not spending extra time away from my kid commuting. Big picture, people.

As a Mom who uses daycare, I agree with this sentiment. Good quality affordable daycare is scarce in my area so when we chose our DCP we didn't sweat the small stuff. In our case its crappy snacks, thankfully we provide meals but the center's snacks are not my first choice but its a good place so you overlook the small stuff (food would probably not be small if dd had allergies or issues but she doesn't so its small for us).

I know in my area what waldorf or montessori centers/schools that exist are out of my price range and in many cases do not offer hours conducive to working parents. (9-3 with no before or aftercare)

Shay
post #131 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
DH and I earn teacher-level salaries and DD's daycare (no character toys, mostly open-ended and natural materials) is very affordable for us. (DD's daycare does not actually advertise itself as a Montessori or Waldorf school.) Although I think there is an association between Montessori and Waldorf and price, it definitely doesn't have to be that way....there's no real reason the philosophy has to cost more. I suppose the materials are slightly more expensive, but only if you buy a lot of premade stuff.
I think the op was commenting on the inavailability of programs that adhere to these philosophies in her area... and the ones that are available in the city, which I understood to be a trek, are more costly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
And yet, I'd certainly rather protect my child from violent movies and princess-obsession a bit longer till she can absorb the subtleties of my explanations a bit better. I mean, from this POV, anything, including The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, could be a "teachable moment," right? ("DD, cutting people up with chainsaws is a very bad thing to do.")
I hope it's clear that I'm in no way angling to justify exposing children to violence in order to attain teachable moments, and I'm disturbed that one could twist what I said and come up with a statement that, from my POV, Texas Chainsaw Massacre could be used to teach... I'm not sure what one could, sincerely, teach a child using that movie.

Unfortunately, dd saw some of the Pirate movie... Mom at school, dad not always as 'with it' in terms of what is 2-3yo appropriate.

Unfortunately, dd's older friends are all princess-obsessed and now, she is a bit too.

I choose to take these unfortunate happenings and use them in a positive light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
I'm opposed to thehighly gendered, commercial character play for a number of reasons. 1, It's all intended to make children buy and watch, and I find the marketing machine repulsive and insidious; 2, I think it's very limiting of children's imaginations, and imagination is very, very precious to me; 3, I think all the highly-gendered play and separate expectations are extremely rigid and harms kids who are not "gender-typical" (my own DD would never have cuddlked the blocks in a million years); and 4, I believe it sets boys and girls up as people who won't ever be expected to enjoy each other, understand each other or speak the same language.
Thanks for answering my question. I can totally see where you're coming from, and have many of the same concerns myself. I see many parents with these concerns. Some of them live in a state of enmity with the Media Monster. Some of them try to be a big huge filter for it. Some try to just model their own values consistently, in an effort to balance it out.

There're a lot of ways to handle commercialism, sexism, racism, and all the other bad-tidings of society. I merely offered up an approach that I use.

I feel if I help dd to process what she sees, ask her questions, make myself available to her as a resource, that'll set the stage for later, when she is more sophisticated and can process ethics and society at large on a deeper level. I think she is a great communicator, already, and tell her so. Nothing in this world (Disney Princesses and Transformers combined) has more power than we give it. If these influences pop into her world and I do nothing to supplement her experience with information, then I'm not doing my job, and she will indeed, like you said, be set up "as (a person)who won't ever be expected to enjoy each other, (boys and girls, right?) understand each other or speak the same language."

It's all about us... we're the last word, the frontline, and the best filter.
post #132 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc View Post
I'm opposed to thehighly gendered, commercial character play for a number of reasons. 1, It's all intended to make children buy and watch, and I find the marketing machine repulsive and insidious; 2, I think it's very limiting of children's imaginations, and imagination is very, very precious to me; 3, I think all the highly-gendered play and separate expectations are extremely rigid and harms kids who are not "gender-typical" (my own DD would never have cuddlked the blocks in a million years); and 4, I believe it sets boys and girls up as people who won't ever be expected to enjoy each other, understand each other or speak the same language.
I understand why you're opposed-no one would want those things, or at least I wouldn't but I think there are more variables involved. I think it's more than exposure to media that causes those results. My son and his best friend (a girl) have both been exposed to lots of media BUT they are very creative (my son is one of the most creative children I know) and they don't play gender-steroptyped games. Their favorite thing in the world is to make "mud cuisine" (it goes way beyond pies ) Sometimes they play other games but in their own way.

I could see though if people were constantly pushing certain characters along with gender stereotypes that one could get that result.
post #133 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
Not offended at all. I actually have no problem with my dd playing with girly 'stuff'. (Although to be honest she ignores her dolls in favor of her brother's trucks, while her brother goes and plays with her dolls. Go figure )

What I do object to is...commercialized 'girly' stuff. Disney princesses, for example *winces*. Let's just say, as much as I LOVE WDW, the Disney Princess phenomenon is not something I want my child to embrace as healthy.

I don't like commericalized boy-ey stuff either....you know...emblazoned superheros on powerwheels, that kind of thing.
Haven't read the whole thread yet but had to comment that this is almost exactly my take on this. We love pink, purple, and cute, just not the weird disneyfied versions.
post #134 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
Haven't read the whole thread yet but had to comment that this is almost exactly my take on this. We love pink, purple, and cute, just not the weird disneyfied versions.
Totally. Waspy-waisted giant-eye-balled Happily-Ever-Afterers whose lives stop when they marry the prince... No thanks. She loves 'em. I just keep trying to show her alternative forms of princessly-awesome-ness... She has a thing for an orange jersey knit dress this week, with circles... it's her current princess dress. She just figured out how to get it on her body herself... awesome.
post #135 of 186
In our house it probably helps that dad is the one with the over the top kawai obsession. he's got a pink kitty wallet and a giant pink bear on his desk, lol.
post #136 of 186
Let's see I really dislike childrens clothes with characters on them but my kids like the so I let them have them because to me they are harmless.

I dont care for the whole poor girl needs to be rescued Disney Princess them...But my DD loves them and I loved them when I was little and I am pretty sure that I came out ok.

I draw the line at what "I" feel are Hoochie dolls such as Bratz and I do not by "trashy" barbie clothes. But Savara has many barbies (and would have more if my dog would stop eating them)

Savara has about 20 tiaras, 10 wands, and 20 or so pairs of princess shoes, 10 princess dresses, tutus, wings, wigs, wedding dress, beads and earbobs(I found an AWESOME dressup kit at a yard sale for 17.00) she adores them and I remember loving things like this as a child as well. My boys dress up with her all the time.

I think if a little girl is drawn to "girly" things she should be allowed to enjoy them. I would rather her do it at 5 then at 21 and look like a glittery dolly parton! I just dont see the harm.

And if she grows up and her signature colors are Blush and Bashfull then so what I could think of worse then her growning up to be a girly girl. I just think we have bigger fish to fry in this world than what toys kids should play with...re: gender neutrality.

If I did not like a daycares choice of toys then I would look elsewhere or ask if my daughter could bring her own. I would not expect them to cater to me alone. Kinda selfish in my opinion. I mean I would not take my child to a daycare that was big on christmas if it was something that I did not believe. I would never presume that my dollar would give me the right to be that demanding.

So on that note... I dont think I will open up a daycare... Goodness who knew it coult be such a heated can of worms!

ETA: I also do not let my boys watch rated "R" movies but I dont expect their friends moms to do the same. I simply dont let my boys go to houses where they are allowed to watch them. We invite them to our house.
post #137 of 186
Also my DD LOVES pink. It has never really been my "color" But I indulge her because if she likes it that much, who am I to say,no. I dont care if my boys like either..
post #138 of 186
I rest my case, crass commercialism is winning obviously. Except in my home, it isn't going to happen.
post #139 of 186
OH, and I definitely want any girl children of mine to never get the idea that what being a girl is all about is putting clothes on and taking them off, acquiring things, about appearances and being "dressed up", and being "rescued". I don't care if she does think they are cool, it's my job to fight this epidemic of limiting girls (and boys for that matter) into such straight jackets of gender identity and expression. Society will do it's damnedest in fighting against me, but I will continue the good fight. Not to mention that I want my chlidren to learn to be productive members of society that DO things, not puppets in a market economy that only seeks to teach them to BUY. Adults should be smart enough to be able to like pink and shoes, but also understand they are being marketed to, and what is behind these ideas, children have no clue, so it's my job to keep their lives as neutral as possible until they can better understand what is going on in our society.

I thought this would be a place where folks might undertstand some of this stuff, and there are those out there, thanks folks, but damn do I feel alone.
post #140 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
I rest my case, crass commercialism is winning obviously. Except in my home, it isn't going to happen.
Way to completely miss the point, there.
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