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Why can't she like Polly Pocket and other froo froo stuff? - Page 8

post #141 of 186
Oh no, the point is there. If you like it, it's okay to buy it, and buy it, and buy it and buy it, and then buy some more. Doesn't matter if it teaches something to your children you don't want them learning, especially if you aren't even aware that it's doing it. Kids are most definitely NOT being marketed to, and as parents we are not being egged into submission by forces outside our brains and homes (as if, of course this is happening). Children are being boxed further and further into narrow straight jackets of what is acceptable play for their sex (have you BEEN in toys R us lately?), but it's okay IF they LIKE it, because well, that's what they like! There is no influence from society playing a part in it, right? I mean, they are born that way, right? yeah, right.
post #142 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
Oh no, the point is there. If you like it, it's okay to buy it, and buy it, and buy it and buy it, and then buy some more. Doesn't matter if it teaches something to your children you don't want them learning, especially if you aren't even aware that it's doing it. Kids are most definitely NOT being marketed to, and as parents we are not being egged into submission by forces outside our brains and homes (as if, of course this is happening). Children are being boxed further and further into narrow straight jackets of what is acceptable play for their sex (have you BEEN in toys R us lately?), but it's okay IF they LIKE it, because well, that's what they like! There is no influence from society playing a part in it, right? I mean, they are born that way, right? yeah, right.

I understand your passion, but really missing your points.

Why does a girl having a dress-up bin necessarily tie into crass commercialism? My Mom made my dress-up clothes .

All the catalogs I've seen of independent ittle places selling more natural kinds of toys have dressup stuff. So let's not just target Toys R Us. (And no, I've not seen it lately, only in one once). So, is it okay from Magic Cabin, but not ok from ToysRUs?

Yes we are being marketed to all the time. Have you seen all the ads in Mothering magazine lately? High quality stuff to be sure, but still marketing all the same.

I think a child can participate in dress up and still not be a victim of crass commercialism.
post #143 of 186
You know, I totally get not wanting the Disney crap and all that. That stuff sucks.
But I can't see what' wrong with liking something bright and shiny. I like bright and glittery things, and I'm not terribly girly. As a matter of fact, I am one of the least girly people I know. I have adult friends who have a closet full of dress up clothes (they bring quite a wardrobe to Burning Man). So I guess the problems with dress-up or the color pink don't register with me.

As a matter of fact, my bedroom is purple. Two different shades.
post #144 of 186
I think the problem with things like dress up isn't dress up itself, it's if there's only that kind of option. And because it's so prevelant you really have to push the other stuff to get equal time.
post #145 of 186
all dress up is not bad, focusing a great deal on dress up, especially dress up limited to sparkly shoes, tutus, princess dresses and the like, tiaras (did you SEE the point about 20 tiaras????), forty shades of pink, feather boas, etc, ets IS bad. A variety is important here I would think, doctors, vets, police, aprons, high heels AND construction and hiking boots, hats, hats and more hats, mens clothes, womens clothes, sparkly stuff, plain stuff, etc, etc. You get the idea. All children are attracted to sparkles, doesn't mean that's the only thing they should be dressing up in, even if it takes encouragement from US to try on different roles, different ways of looking. I make my son dress up clothes, I give him all sorts of stuff, including girlie stuff. I said earlier I would want my son given more traditionally female identified toys, and a girl more traditionally male identified toys. Why? Because in order to skew the balance to be more equal against the WAVE of society that seeks to influence me and my son, I HAVE to. I can't ignore the HUGELY limiting ideas of what is acceptable toys for boys in society today, I have to counteract it. So I do, and you know what? My boy plays with match box cars one day, his tutu and doll the next. I find he has good balance and has more of an opportunity to use his imagination, then have someone use it for him, kwim? That's why I don't like much of the toys out there (magic cabin excluded, there are good choices there) in mainstream society, mostly plastic crap with no real purpose, that limits imagination, especially when it comes to gender.
post #146 of 186
Quote:
I think the problem with things like dress up isn't dress up itself, it's if there's only that kind of option. And because it's so prevelant you really have to push the other stuff to get equal time.
BSD, I LOVE you! So succinct.
post #147 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
I think the problem with things like dress up isn't dress up itself, it's if there's only that kind of option. And because it's so prevelant you really have to push the other stuff to get equal time.
We don't have any princess or girlie type stuff in the house for that very reason. It is just soooo prevelant that I know that DD will get enough of it elsewhere. Same goes for Disney and other character stuff.

To the person who asked what is inherently wrong with commercial character stuff, I do believe that it limits the imagination AND (at the same time) stifles a child's awareness of the real world around her. There was some recent study in the UK that showed that this huge percentage of kindergarteners had never seen a real mouse and only recognized Mickey MOuse. I think that's just the tip of the iceberg. Some kids become sooo immersed in fantasy characters that in the end they know nothing and care to know nothiing about the real world at all.

When my DD was a baby and I started to show her books, I didn't bother showing her Winnie the Pooh, which I figured would be meaningless to her. I decided that I would wait until she was 7 or 8 years old and she could read The House at Pooh Corner herself. In the mean time, I have shown her lots about real bears, both in books and at the zoo.
post #148 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
all dress up is not bad, focusing a great deal on dress up, especially dress up limited to sparkly shoes, tutus, princess dresses and the like, tiaras (did you SEE the point about 20 tiaras????), forty shades of pink, feather boas, etc, ets IS bad. A variety is important here I would think, doctors, vets, police, aprons, high heels AND construction and hiking boots, hats, hats and more hats, mens clothes, womens clothes, sparkly stuff, plain stuff, etc, etc. You get the idea. All children are attracted to sparkles, doesn't mean that's the only thing they should be dressing up in, even if it takes encouragement from US to try on different roles, different ways of looking. I make my son dress up clothes, I give him all sorts of stuff, including girlie stuff. I said earlier I would want my son given more traditionally female identified toys, and a girl more traditionally male identified toys. Why? Because in order to skew the balance to be more equal against the WAVE of society that seeks to influence me and my son, I HAVE to. I can't ignore the HUGELY limiting ideas of what is acceptable toys for boys in society today, I have to counteract it. So I do, and you know what? My boy plays with match box cars one day, his tutu and doll the next. I find he has good balance and has more of an opportunity to use his imagination, then have someone use it for him, kwim? That's why I don't like much of the toys out there (magic cabin excluded, there are good choices there) in mainstream society, mostly plastic crap with no real purpose, that limits imagination, especially when it comes to gender.

Gotcha. Balance, yes we all stive for that.

I can appreciate the child's mother having her ideals, but I still don't think it's the dcp who needs to police the toys. It doesn't sound like there is an overwhelming amount commercialized stuff there. I don't see a problem with acknowledging what the child likes to play with and telling her that she can enjoy them at daycare, but they won't be showing up at home.

I think that sending your child to daycare and exposing them to other children involves giving up a certain amount of control (and no, please don't compare this to spanking, CIO, dietary issues, etc, because in my mind a couple plastic dolls does not even compare). Also, if this woman is not going to homeschool in the future and cannot afford Waldorf or Montessourri, the exposure is going to happen eventually. Why not take this opportunity to teach the child now what the values of the home are?

I think if the mom cannot comfortably let it go, she should look into having someone come into her home.
post #149 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
all dress up is not bad, focusing a great deal on dress up, especially dress up limited to sparkly shoes, tutus, princess dresses and the like, tiaras (did you SEE the point about 20 tiaras????), forty shades of pink, feather boas, etc, ets IS bad. A variety is important here I would think, doctors, vets, police, aprons, high heels AND construction and hiking boots, hats, hats and more hats, mens clothes, womens clothes, sparkly stuff, plain stuff, etc, etc. You get the idea. All children are attracted to sparkles, doesn't mean that's the only thing they should be dressing up in, even if it takes encouragement from US to try on different roles, different ways of looking. I make my son dress up clothes, I give him all sorts of stuff, including girlie stuff.
Well, you've posted a good description of our dress-up box
post #150 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
Kids are most definitely NOT being marketed to, and as parents we are not being egged into submission by forces outside our brains and homes (as if, of course this is happening). Children are being boxed further and further into narrow straight jackets of what is acceptable play for their sex (have you BEEN in toys R us lately?), but it's okay IF they LIKE it, because well, that's what they like! There is no influence from society playing a part in it, right? I mean, they are born that way, right? yeah, right.
We're ALL being marketed to. I think the whole issue is more complex myself. I don't think it's always cut and dried.
post #151 of 186
Hm, here are my thoughts...

1. I want JBwebbal's dress up box...
2. 20 tiaras sounds a bit too much... :
3. I don't think that watching Disney will turn a girl into a person without imagination, unwilling to experience the world, powerless, who has to be rescued... as long as those are not the values that the parents embrace...
4. I want my child in a daycare with mostly natural wooden toys. :
5. Pink and sparkly is fine by me.
6. Too much of ANYTHING (too much of "natural" or too much of "commercial" is not my cup of tea).
7. As a parent you get to pick daycare, you can't demand from a daycare to get a new box of toys just because nothing else there suits your child.
post #152 of 186
Well just call me the "Queen of Crass Commercialism"....lol.
post #153 of 186
not trying to be snarky marcee, after my tirade last night, BUT you DO have the tiaras for the job :
post #154 of 186
And yes for the record we also have a Doctors uniform, police uniform, firefighter stuff, construction stuff (my mom was the first female steward in washington no less, worked construction her whole life, and was a foreman, and she LOVES pink!)we also have aprons as well as many, many, many other career dress up items. Can I help it if I found a great dress up kit at a yardsale for 17.00. Should I have said "only one tiara please"
post #155 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
not trying to be snarky marcee, after my tirade last night, BUT you DO have the tiaras for the job :
Oh I am not offended at all! (I used to think I really was a princess growing up, so NOW I AM THE QUEEN!!!LOL) I wear my tiara proudly!

And actually I was a girly girl growing up and um now... not so much! My lil sister was a tomboy her whole life and is now at 24 oh so girl and even matches her bra and panties to her outfits!
post #156 of 186
So, what if the OPs dress-up collection included: fancy, astronauts, police officers, fire-fighters, doctors, etc., and the little girl still wanted to dress fancy? OP didn't mention any other dress-up outfits, but that doesn't mean that they aren't available.
post #157 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by marybethorama View Post
We're ALL being marketed to. I think the whole issue is more complex myself. I don't think it's always cut and dried.
We *are* all being marketed to. Even as adults there are few who actually recognize that and think rationally about it. Why do you think people drive Hummers, and spend thousands on clothes, a house they can't afford, and image, image, image... and then they are asking "what happened" because they are up to their eyeballs in debt?

Here is a mother who is actually saying, "Hey, I don't agree with this aspect of society and so I'd like you, DCP, to help me instill this particular value in my dd." Instead, people say it's okay to ignore it as "it's not important to them". For some people, the toys their kids play with are as, if not more, important than breastfeeding or cloth-diapering or vaccinating or circumcising. Who are we to judge that this is something this woman should not worry about?

There need be no other discussion of it. If you are being paid to care for a child, you do what you can to care for them as their parents will.
post #158 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
We *are* all being marketed to. Even as adults there are few who actually recognize that and think rationally about it. Why do you think people drive Hummers, and spend thousands on clothes, a house they can't afford, and image, image, image... and then they are asking "what happened" because they are up to their eyeballs in debt?

Here is a mother who is actually saying, "Hey, I don't agree with this aspect of society and so I'd like you, DCP, to help me instill this particular value in my dd." Instead, people say it's okay to ignore it as "it's not important to them". For some people, the toys their kids play with are as, if not more, important than breastfeeding or cloth-diapering or vaccinating or circumcising. Who are we to judge that this is something this woman should not worry about?

There need be no other discussion of it. If you are being paid to care for a child, you do what you can to care for them as their parents will.
I think that it is the woman absolute right to worry of anything she finds important for her child. But I dont think that she has the right to expect the DCP to bend to her views. If she does not like the selection of toys and it matters that much to her she should go elsewhere. If it is something that she is a little flexible on she should stay. It really is her choice. If she is extremely passionate about she needs to make the choice, not expect the DCP to change.
post #159 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
If you are being paid to care for a child, you do what you can to care for them as their parents will.
Request of a parent should make sense in the context of the situation. It must be a reasonable request. This parent can demand certain things from a babysitter, or from a daycare that advertised itself as Waldorf-inspired. If a given daycare provider didn't mislead the parent in its appeal, then the parent is making a choice to abide by the rules adopted by a given daycare.

I don't get how it is possible in daycare setting to rearrange the toys so that ALL but one kid have access to certain toys...

I am not debating values here, I'm debating business - for - money expectation.
post #160 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
Mom says "That isn't who we are" She would like me to discourage her from playing with the girly things, and encourage her to play with the dr kit, and the building toys. Why is it so bad for her to love this stuff???
This is the original post (which I keep going back to). The mother is just asking the OP to discourage her dd from playing with girly things. In the course of a day, how hard can that be?

Then she asks, "why is it so bad for her to love this stuff?"... and the answer is because the family doesn't approve of it and she has no right to decide what is right and wrong for the family. It. is. not. up to her to decide what is "so bad" or not so bad for this family. Her obligation is to say, "Yes I can try to do that." or to say, "I won't and I'm telling you up-front so you can find another DCP if you feel you need to."

As I've said before... we all "control" things about our child's upbringing. It is not our right to say that one mother is more controlling because she is controlling something we don't care about/have an opinion about.

For example, if a DCP were praying a Christian prayer around my dd, I wouldn't give a flip. But I can guarantee that my in-laws in Turkey would care. If a DCP is praying in front of the kids, and you ask that they don't... is this controlling... or is it just something that matters to you?

ETA: again, for the record... my dd has never been in day care and I've never been a DCP.
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