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Why can't she like Polly Pocket and other froo froo stuff? - Page 4

post #61 of 186
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
you can't go to McDonald's and ask for a prime rib..
HEY!! I am not prime rib.... But, I am at LEAST Applebees.

Certainly not McDonalds.....
post #62 of 186
So I was reading, and thinking "what would I say if it was the mom posting?" And assuming she gave the same info, I think I'd still have to say that I sympathize, but that her expectations of group daycare are a little out of line.

I don't know, maybe 3 is a little young, but I know for sure by 4 or so, my dd understood that the rules were different at home vs at (bio)Dad's, or Granny's, or her friends'. It simply wasn't a big issue...Granny lets you play Barbie? That's nice. Mommy doesn't like them, so we don't have any here. I guess that's not completely the same, because she didn't spend as much time at those places as a child might spend in daycare...but she did end up internalizing more of the "home" rules than what she learned other places.
post #63 of 186
When you apply the common test of replacing gender with race (or sparkly dresses with darker skinned baby dolls in this case), the gender bias becomes glaringly obvious. It's not okay to demonize girly things, that sends the message that girly things (and thus girls) are bad.

I don't like characters or commercialization either (it was a very sad day for me when my ds fell in love with Elmo... I'm still not certain how that happened), but you can be girly without being branded with Princesses or Dora (or Princess Dora).
post #64 of 186
I gotta say I agree with velochic. So honey, you are not alone on that soap box. My issue is guns and swords, and other toys of violence. It sounds as if some of this stuff (froo froo stuff) wasn't present when the mom enrolled her child (all this talk of this stuff coming out in summer). If some daycare provider had guns and swords, I would be asking them to keep them away from my son. Most definitely. And just because a day care provider has done something always isn't reason enough to say that a parent can't ask that things be done differently. How else would providers improve and change? I remember when I worked as a preschool teacher we used to give the kids crap food, and it changed after parents asked for change. Quite frankly I am stunned at some of the toys the OP mentioned, at our school the toys were pretty much VERY neutral. Polly pocket would not impress me at a daycare provider.

And frankly I was offended about the comment about the mother wearing "men's clothes". I doubt she wears a men's suit and tie?
post #65 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
HEY!! I am not prime rib.... But, I am at LEAST Applebees.

Certainly not McDonalds.....
I have a gift certificate for Applebees, too. Do you deliver? :
post #66 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
I gotta say I agree with velochic. So honey, you are not alone on that soap box. My issue is guns and swords, and other toys of violence. It sounds as if some of this stuff (froo froo stuff) wasn't present when the mom enrolled her child (all this talk of this stuff coming out in summer). If some daycare provider had guns and swords, I would be asking them to keep them away from my son. Most definitely. And just because a day care provider has done something always isn't reason enough to say that a parent can't ask that things be done differently. How else would providers improve and change? I remember when I worked as a preschool teacher we used to give the kids crap food, and it changed after parents asked for change. Quite frankly I am stunned at some of the toys the OP mentioned, at our school the toys were pretty much VERY neutral. Polly pocket would not impress me at a daycare provider.

And frankly I was offended about the comment about the mother wearing "men's clothes". I doubt she wears a men's suit and tie?
But no one is talking about guns and swords. I totally feel you on keeping symbols of violence and actual representations of violence out of children's play-areas, off their radar entiely if possible, etc... totally.

But we're talking about a 3 yo little girl covetting what she is forbidden to have, desire, play with... sparkly purple dress up shoes, dressy dresses, and some little figurines.

I think anyone anyone here would agree that were nextcommercial to be guilty of exposing these kids to overt-characters, product placement, media-poison stuff, then she'd not have a leg to stand on if the client mom disapproved. But, mostly, the real issue lies in the fact that the girl sees what the other kids wear to day care, and sees what the other kids play with (including her brother-again I find it striking that that keeps going under the radar; hello? her son can play with the girly froo froo stuff, but the girl can't??) and she wants to be part of that. She sees the pleasure that her friends and brother find in these things, and wants to enjoy those things too.

Why exactly is that a bone of contention here?
post #67 of 186
Quote:
But we're talking about a 3 yo little girl covetting what she is forbidden to have, desire, play with... sparkly purple dress up shoes, dressy dresses, and some little figurines.
And I am talking about a 3 yo boy covetting, desiring, things I don't want him to have, guns and swords, etc. They are forbidden to him. You can call me controlling, but I don't take that label, just as much as making sure that my son doesn't eat crap is not controlling either. And I do think the toys in the day care provider's home are bordering on crass commercialism. I would not support my son being subjected to this stuff, say if it were pirates of the caribeean, transformers, or even thomas the train (I abhor that stuff, and it is not in our home even when my son LOVED it). I don't like product tie-ins of any sort. As for the son playing with this stuff, well, in our home I support opposite gender identified toys to a higher degree. He is given more toys that are not traditional boy things, and if we were a girl, the same would happen for her. Does it mean I forbid all things? No, but I am careful in what he plays with. Frankly I go along with the idea that we are only hearing ONE side of the story, I haven't found the OP to be very neutral in her descriptions of the situation, hence my offense at the term "men's clothing" when referring to the mother. And again, I do think it is within a parent's right to request that their values be respected by their day care provider, within limits of course, but like I said, how else do we get our providers to change if we don't ask?
post #68 of 186
Also, the bone of contention with the OP wasn't so much that she was being asked by a parent in her day care to restrict toys (that has been the focus of the replies), but this question
Quote:
What on earth is wrong with this child having a natural attraction to shiny girly stuff?
I have heard in more than one reply from the OP a real disdain for this parent's values. I don't think these things are natural attractions, I mean, seriously, my son might LIKE thomas the train, but it is hardly something innate within him. I look at the question above as gender stereotyping. Natural attraction to sparkles? To shiny stuff? To disney princesses? To crass commercialism? Hardly. The OP called the mother's clothes "men's clothes". I hardly think that is the case. Like I asked, is she seriously wearing a suit and tie? Men's shoes?

I would never buy my daughter a barbie doll (nor my son either) and if a day care provider didn't respect that it is simply not a value in our family that we purchase or play with those sorts of toys, then yes I would be offended. I don't support my son wanting, or playing with products that are obviously gender oriented, or crass commerical products. I get upset at my partner when she buys him disney crap, or at grandma when she bought him thomas stuff. I think it limits imagination, and I find it stifling. I much prefer gender neutral toys (and to me legos and blocks are gender neutral) myself for my son. I don't view it as controlling at all.
post #69 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
To me, this is the underlying question... what is it to us to judge this woman and decide what is best for HER family?

We rally around the OP because she is "one of us". If it was the mother here complaining about the day care worker, we'd be rallying around her. I've never seen such a blatant display of double standards.
I would NOT be rallying around the mom if she posted here. I'd be on the daycare provider's side. I'd still have the same opinion of the mother
post #70 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by marybethorama View Post
I would NOT be rallying around the mom if she posted here. I'd be on the daycare provider's side. I'd still have the same opinion of the mother
Well, this is typically what we do. I've been here long enough to see it happen over and again.

I don't want to hijack nextcommercial's thread, but let me explain where I am coming from and perhaps put some different perspective on it. Before I do, I'll state once again that I do believe it's nextcommercial's obligation as a paid care provider to do everything in her power (not buy anything, mind you) to conform to the parent's wishes for their children. It's not her place to decide if the mother is being too controlling or her ideas are weird. Her place is to do everything within reason to help the children be raised with the same principals that the parents are raising them.

My dd attends a private school. It's the only one of its kind in the state and we are very committed to having her attend this type of school because of *our* values. This school, as of this year, has instituted a MANDATORY hot lunch program. We are charged $4 per lunch and we are REQUIRED to take the hot lunch. Here are some things on the lunch menu for the first week of school: Cheeseburger, Nachos Supreme, French Toast sticks, Grilled Cheese. I have been up in arms about this. I am REQUIRED to pay for these crap meals. Guess what they tell me... I'm too controlling. I've tried to opt out of the program but they say they cannot provide hot lunch unless everyone participates. So I'm to pay $4 a day for a lunch I would NEVER allow my dd to eat. In my eyes it is JUNK food. The school thinks that I'm overreacting. What do you think? Am I being too controlling? This issue is of extreme importance to *MY* family and nobody else at the school seems to be able to understand why it's so important to me because this is a great alternative to the crappy lunchables they would send. The other parents think that this hot lunch is GREAT and cannot fathom why I think it is unhealthy. It's the healthiest meal these kids are going to get. My standards are DIFFERENT than theirs, so I get criticized for it. I see that this woman's standards are different as well, and she is being criticized for asking nextcommercial to try to work with her on her standards. If nextcommercial's post was about the mother asking that her dd be given something different to *eat* rather than play with would the reactions be any different. Probably...

My reason is actually a valid one, but not something I share with the school. My dd is probably borderline ADHD. She's really smart and energetic, but her environment (especially food) has a large impact on her behavior. If I keep her away from processed foods and artificial fillers, she has a great attention span, is a great kid (she never whines or cries or talks back... I mean she is just a joy to be around), is polite, and can remember every single thing told to her. I've explained to the school that if I have her eat the food I'm paying for... the food they are serving... she will be in trouble at school all the time. We also have diabetes in the family and I am concerned that her diet be filled with fresh, natural, wholesome food for that reason. They tell me I'm overreacting and being too controlling about my dd's diet.

So yeah, I think that people who don't live our lives haven't a clue about why we do the things we do, but usually we have good reasons for it. I'd probably say that Nextcommercial is a loving, caring person and THAT is what is most important to these parents. But why do you have to take the bad with the good just because someone else is judging you and saying "you're unreasonable and we don't do it like that so tough titties." This school of dd's is the only one of it's kind. So, what are we doing since they told US "tough titties!"... we're paying that $4 a day and still sending a sack lunch. But it would be really nice if someone would stop long enough to say, "Hey, they must have a good reason... let's listen to them before we judge them."
post #71 of 186
You know, I think part of the issue here is just that the mom and the DCP and the parents of the other kids at the DC are on different wavelengths. The mom wants this kid in a daycare with mainly gender-neutral toys and with other kids whose parents are not so into the whole character princess bit. I understand that. I wanted that too, and I got it. And yeah, it's important to me. Seriously, even two Disney princess washcloths would be irksome for me.

I agree that Waldorf or perhaps a Montessori where characters are banned would be better for the family's value system. I think the mom is just frustrated and is flailing around trying to control the situation. It IS unreasonable for her to ask that you forbid toys. Of course.

ETA: The only characters my DD recognizes are Elmo and Thomas. Ironically, she first encountered both of them in library books! (We're 95% TV-free.) Yep, it's possible. Oh, and I'm not even sure she knows what a princess is.

And I;d like to suggest another explanation for the little girl's behavior (besides "it is biologically hard-wired for girl children to love pink")...maybe she just wants to belong. The other girls have this stuff and are into this stuff, right? Maybe the DCP unwittingly makes it seem special and exicting, too? (My own DD went through a phase of wanting to wear dresses all the time. It took us a while to figure out that one of her favorite teachers ALWAYS complimented her when she wore a dress. After the teacher quit, she lost the preference for dresses.) Again, this is where the parents maybe need to seek out a different DCP if they want to avoid this stuff.
post #72 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
So, Mom just doesn't like it. It's probably how I felt about cheerleaders. I even remember putting little ideas about cheerleaders in my dd's head. (Yes, I was anti cheerleader.. I thought they were perky little twits).
My mom was very anti-cheerleader too, and very much raised me to believe that I shouldn't be "on the sidelines cheering the boys." I briefly considered trying out for cheerleading in high school (in addition to being a total goth and doing theater and music ), but decided it wasn't worth the anxiety it would produce with mom. Mom, by the way, is a former model, who was the only daughter in her household, who wanted to be out climbing trees with her brothers, and who had an artificial sense of "girl-ness" imposed on her. She raised me, a daughter who was a total tomboy and who still can't be bothered with makeup or hair blow dryers. My daughter? Pink is her favorite color. Enough said. What goes around comes around!
post #73 of 186
I have only read the original post so I have no idea where this thread has gone, but I just want to tell you our experience. We don't have cable and live in an area where you can't really get much with an antenna. We don't let DD watch any TV (except some sports). We do let her watch videos but only have Charlie Brown specials (DH and I find them less commercial and in your face, plus to us they seem better than the other stuff out there these days). We can't stand Disney, Barney, and alot of the other mainstream stuff. That said, DH and I understand that we cannot dictate what other people do. If we are at someone else's house we don't tell them what they can and cannot have on the TV or what toys can and cannot be out for the children to play with. Now, if it was something totally inappropriate for children her age or we viewed the toy as dangerous I would speak up, but if we see it as a matter of parenting choice we just let it go. We are in control of what she sees and plays with so much and she is going to have to be out in the real world some day. When she asks for the stuff at home (which I am not sure that she has yet) we just say "we don't do that in our house and leave it at that". Being a mother who extended breastfeeds with no bottles or pacifiers I am actually much more concerned with her being exposed to other children using those things, but again in our house the dolls don't have these things and when she mentions binkies (like, "baby JP has a binkie") again we just say "we don't use those in our house, we use mommies side (her word)".

So, I guess my point is, as parents it is our job to decide what our dc are exposed to, but my goodness we live in a society where there are alot of parents making different choices. If someone chooses to let someone else watch their children outside of the home then they have to accept the fact that their children are going to be exposed to other things.

JMO,

Beth
post #74 of 186
Jwebbal - Would you feel okay with your daughter playing with swords and guns even though you're not okay with your son playing with them? The mom is okay with her son playing dress up, but not okay with her daughter doing it.

velochic - same thing. Is a healthy diet only important for one of your children or all of your children (I'm guessing from your post that you only have one?) But wouldn't you hold all of your children to the same diet standard unless one of them had a medical reason that didn't apply to the others?

This woman is saying I don't want my daughter to play dress up, but it's okay for my son. Wouldn't we be up in arms if she was saying I don't want my daughter to get dirty, but it's okay for my son or I don't want my daughter to play ball, but it's okay for my son. I think the fact that many of us dislike commercialized toys, especially highly exaggerated overly feminine princess toys, is clouding the gender bias here.
post #75 of 186
Jwebbal, if you had a daughter as well as a son, would you let her play with Thomas, but not your daughter?

You know, if this mother only* had a problem with Polly Pocket or other "brands" (although, really - Joy's Waldorf Dolls is a brand for Pete's sake!), I could understand where she was coming from. But sparkly shoes for dress up? With a DCP that is clearly not gender stereotyping because the boys seem as likely to play with the sparkly dress up as the girls? What on earth is wrong with that? Especially when she was no problem with her son wearing sparkly shoes. . .

It's astounding to me that some people support the kind of sexism that allows things that are associated in our society with femininity to automatically be demonized (but only for girls! It's cool for boys to be princesses!)
post #76 of 186
The OP said herself that she was the best the mom could do in the area. No one else babywears, feeds organic, cloth diapers etc. It sounds like this mom did the best she could to find a DCP that fit her lifestyle and parenting choices, but of course as parents we should understand that "the best we can do" is rarely perfect. Whoever made the point that would rally around this mom if she was an MDCer hit the nail on the head. It's not uncommon to see comments about making your wishes completely clear to a DCP and not allowing your values to be compromised because you have to work, and here we are telling a DCP to disregard a parents wishes because she dresses in a masculine manner?
post #77 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
The mother made a choice in this daycare , and she can't demand that the provider changes her polices and buys new toys. I think for all the talk of respecting child's wishes on this board, there is something to be said for not ripping toys out of kids' hands...

I can use cloth dipers that a parent left me, I use the healthy snack that a parent left me, but I can't force a kid to not like pink dresses!

If I don't approve of certain toys in my house - I can make them "dissapear" after the kid goes to bed. As a daycare provider, I can't buy a stash of new toys for every child that comes in. If this is important to the parent, they should discuss it upfront. I hope you are not suggesting taking every froofroo pink thing out of this child's hands as soon as she picks it up? And saying, "Well... all the other kids can play with those toys, but here is your box, and don't you touch anything else!" :
exactly!
post #78 of 186
The question wasn't about one being allowed, and the other not. The question is "why can't she like polly pocket and other froo froo stuff"

And I will keep repeating, I wouldn't want my daughter playing with that crap either.

I wouldn't want my son playing with it either, but that is besides the point. I am only hearing ONE side of this story, and I find the OP to be biased on the issue of gender. I keep referring to her use of the words "men's clothes" when describing the mother. Frankly I find it offensive. I think there is something under that.

If someone saw me wearing no make up and "men's clothes", and I was clear I didn't want my daughter playing with "froo froo stuff" I think some "well meaning" person might assume some nasty things about me. The bottom line is I am the parent, it is my decision, not yours how I raise my daughter. No child was ever left irreparably harmed by not being allowed to play with crass commercialized crap and "froo froo stuff" like princess washcloths and sparkly dress up clothes. Stop focusing on the son, and focus on the issue before us. Does this mother have a right to have her preferences respected. I don't see respect here, I see disdain for a mother that is questionable on the basis of how she presents.
post #79 of 186
Quote:
BUT, I think the big difference is she LOOOOOOOVES these things. She absolultely obsesses about them.
The more my child obsesses about something, the more I question it. The crass marketing that is aimed at children is frightening to me.
post #80 of 186
Quote:
Her dd quickly pointed out the cinderella t-shirt the other three year old was wearing. Mom just shuddered. LOL
I shudder too. What is funny about it? I am particular about what my son wears, does that make me an evil mother?


Quote:
What I DO do for them is, I NEVER give these kids anything processed or from a package. I feed them differently than I do the other kids. THAT makes me feel bad, because if A child brings in a birthday cupcake, these two can't have one. They don't know what they are missing, but they see how attractive these things are, and obviously, they want one too.
See, and this is where the food analogy comes in. I don't feel bad that I don't allow my son a lot of the crap other people feed their children. If my child was in daycare I would have a very difficult time letting him eat cupcakes as well. I see this whole issue as not respecting the choices a parent is making about their children. If the mother was amish, or muslim, or mormon, would we disrespect the mother's wishes for her daughter then?
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