Only while nursing - Page 2

[dooney]

I had to cancel my appointment. My mom is in the hospital again - she had a heart attack in Feb, and was having chest pain and numbness in her arm last night but they decided it wasn't her heart this time but we still don't know what it is - and I have to man the daycare all by myself tomorrow.

I don't know what to do.

[2mama]

I felt this way with my son. It was the most horrible feeling in the world. At times I felt like I never wanted to nurse again.. But I always did and 2.5 years and another baby later I still am. It was so uncomfortable, but it only lasted about a month for me. When I went back to work it stopped. In hind sight I probably was depressed but just never treated. This time I did not feel that way, but I undeniably did have ppd. Meds have helped SOOOO much I enjoy my kids in a whole new way and I don't dread getting up anymore!!! I never wanted to take meds.. but I would much rather take them than feel like that again...

[Milkymommi]

Dooney, is it at all possible for you to see a Naturopath? It's so much less intimidating and in many cases a great option to treat things like this. I have had fantastic results over the years with reguard to depression ( non- nursing ). We use Naturopathic care for everything possible and it's been really great for us. Maybe this could be a good place for you to start as well?

hang in there mama

[ahdoula]

I had been scanning this forum for a couple weeks looking for something to jump out at me, to explain how I had been feeling. I couldn’t put my finger on it. I assumed it was postpartum related, but I wouldn’t have called it depression. I originally didn’t click on this thread, because I had “moments” when I wasn’t nursing.

I decided to read the thread a few days ago and wished I had sooner!

I realized that the way I am feeling is connected to feeding and milk, the reason I didn’t realize it before is because it is related to LETDOWN specifically. In fact, I can tell a letdown is coming because of how I SUDDENLY feel. This happens several times during a feeding, but those times are not as intense as the emotional feelings I get in between feedings during a spontaneous letdown. I think this is because during feeding I am at least feeling more connected to my baby and the nice feelings of nursing and so the yucky emotional stuff is easier to ignore.

In between feedings it is much worse. I can tell I am about to letdown (about 60-90 seconds after it hits) because of how I feel and it’s a horrid feeling lasting about 2 minutes.

So to explain how I feel: It’s a sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach. There is a strong aversion to food. I don’t feel sad, but I feel “icky and yucky.” It is a feeling I seem to have associated with strong feelings of worry and guilt in the past, because when I first started experiencing the sensation I kept searching for what I was feeling guilty or worried about. Turns out there was nothing, it was just that same sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that makes me loose my appetite that I had experienced in the past for these other reasons.

I feel able to cope with it, as I know now what it is and why. I think also as time goes on (my baby is 4 weeks now) it gets less intense. I lost a lot of weight quickly in the beginning because food always sounded so horrible. I am able to eat now, it’s just sometimes doesn’t sound good at the moment, or after I eat I momentarily wished I hadn’t. I think because the sensation lasts only moments now, where as before it was lingering.

My biggest thoughts right now are about NAMING this. If there are so many of us and it seems to be fairly unheard of, It ought to have a name. Also as a breastfeeding counselor I would take comfort in knowing what this emotional issue connected to breastfeeding IS.

[Milkymommi]

Ahdoula... your words could have come directly out of my own mouth.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of hours. I keep trying to post here but my dd keeps waking up to nurse so I have to keep leaving before I get my thoughts down

During the last nursing, I decided that I'm going to contact a friend of mine and ask her to read this thread. She just got her CLC and her mother is probably the most well reguarded IBCLC in our area. I'm curious as to what they will say about all this. I've mentioned it at LLL before but I'm pretty sure that at the times i've brought it up neither of them were there.

I haven't forgotten about posting the results of my ND visit either... I'm not going in till Monday. We've had to reschedule etc... I think i'm going to turn her on to this thread as well so maybe we'll get to hear from one or more of these ladies within the thread. I hope so.

Be well everyone!

[ahdoula]

Kristie,
I am a CLC myself and after two peer counselor programs and my CLC training, I havn't heard of it. An IBCLC may know better but I expecpt it is not the sort of thing in text books, but the sort of thing some IBCLCs know of through their own work. I should check my Answer Book and see if it gives mention....

Since yesterday it has seemed worse. Maybe becuase I am more aware of it, or maybe just a normal flucuation of the hormones.

[Andiad]

Originally Posted by ahdoula

So to explain how I feel: It’s a sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach. There is a strong aversion to food. I don’t feel sad, but I feel “icky and yucky.” It is a feeling I seem to have associated with strong feelings of worry and guilt in the past, because when I first started experiencing the sensation I kept searching for what I was feeling guilty or worried about. Turns out there was nothing, it was just that same sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that makes me loose my appetite that I had experienced in the past for these other reasons.


My biggest thoughts right now are about NAMING this. If there are so many of us and it seems to be fairly unheard of, It ought to have a name. Also as a breastfeeding counselor I would take comfort in knowing what this emotional issue connected to breastfeeding IS.

Ahdoula...thank you so much for your thoughts. You are right on!

I really connected with what you said about associating the feelings with something in the past. That is what I felt as well.
I remember as a child occasionally having that same deep in the gut feeling of "yuck". When I would get that feeling I recall, in my mind, creating a character out of it like a dragon and then I would imagine a prince coming and fighting it away. I know....sounds bizarre...: but I was little, what can I say.
I bring that up because that was the same in the gut Yuck feeling that I would have during letdown. I also found nursing extremely painful for the first few weeks. My little one is almost 9mos. now so I don't get those feelings really while nursing anymore. However, it impacted me enough that I'm still thinking about it and curious about what it is.

[Lkerith]

I cant even express how happy I was to find this thread. I get the same icky feeling, in fact, it was one of many problems with bfing that lead to me pumping exclusively. I still get the yucky feeling with pumping. This last week its been better so hopefully its going away (my baby is 5 ½ months). Thank you all so much for sharing your experiences. I wish I read this sooner!

[dooney]

If this is so common, why isn't there more help?

[MilkTrance]

So to explain how I feel: It’s a sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach. There is a strong aversion to food. I don’t feel sad, but I feel “icky and yucky.” It is a feeling I seem to have associated with strong feelings of worry and guilt in the past

yes, word for word, totally how I feel

And why isn't there more help? Hate to be all bitter about it, but I really think it's because it's a woman's issue, so there are all sorts of strange complexities surrounding it, some of which women do to themselves such as questioning their worth as a mother ("if I were a good mom wouldn't I feel great nursing my DC?," "I haven't heard about this before, I must be the only one," etc), so it makes it almost 'shameful' to disclose such things. Also I think there is a real prejudice against emotional/psychological problems. They aren't as easy to deal with, not tangible like the physical. I ALSO think that the reason we have problems with mental illness and emotional/psychological problems is because we associate emotion with women.

[dooney]

K used to eat every three hours, and sleep every three hours, so they just naturally coincided and he'd nurse to sleep. I'm going back to school now, so DH is going to have to put K to sleep and I don't want him to need the boob to get to sleep or stay asleep, so I've been offsetting the schedule - feeding him early and then holding/walking him to sleep. This helps a LOT because instead of dozing off, he watches me and interacts with me. Sometimes he pulls off and just smiles at me, then goes back to eating. There are still little twangs of yuck but they are much more manageable now. I'm still mad that I spent $23 on a prescription I'm not going to take, but I'm getting over that.

[carriesunshine]

I don't post here much... I just usually lurk. But I couldn't read this and not respond - I had the exact same thing happen to me!! It was exactly as so many of you have described... about 30 seconds before let-down, I'd get this huge, horrible rush of icky feelings - for me it was some sort of mix of dread, panic, hopelessness and other things I couldn't really describe. It was one of the worst things I've ever felt, and I seriously thought I was the only one.

It lasted a long time for me - over a year - but it finally went away, and we're going on 27 months of nursing now. I'm pretty sure it was related to PPD; though I never have talked to anyone about it, I think I've had some level of depression going on for quite awhile now. It's encouraging to hear so many if your success stories in dealing with depression.

OP -- I'm glad to hear from your last post that things are getting more manageable and that you're feeling a bit better. I hope things keep looking up. Thank you for posting about this - it really does help to know we're not alone.

[mamaboobaAES]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Most meds say "do not take while breastfeeding" because the drug companies are covering their backsides. Most drugs actually ARE safe for nursing mothers, despite the warning on the bottle.

I hope somebody with Dr. Hale's book can post about Lexapro in particular- see what he says about that particular drug while nursing.

Ugh. This is the type of attitude that make me cringe. They are not simply covering their backsides. These drugs have BLACK BOX warnings which is the strongest warning a drug can have without being BANNED and pulled off the market.

please go to www.uniteforlife.org.

I nearly lost my life and became a psycho murderer because of Zoloft and it really pisses me off to see so many people promoting it. The drug companies really have done a very effective job haven't they.

The AAP lists these drugs as a concern and a psychiatrist I talked to went so far as to say that women should not nurse if they are taking antidepressants, which I was shocked to hear him say, since they want as many customers as possible.

[Individuation]

Originally Posted by carriesunshine

I don't post here much... I just usually lurk. But I couldn't read this and not respond - I had the exact same thing happen to me!! It was exactly as so many of you have described... about 30 seconds before let-down, I'd get this huge, horrible rush of icky feelings - for me it was some sort of mix of dread, panic, hopelessness and other things I couldn't really describe. It was one of the worst things I've ever felt, and I seriously thought I was the only one.

It lasted a long time for me - over a year - but it finally went away, and we're going on 27 months of nursing now. I'm pretty sure it was related to PPD; though I never have talked to anyone about it, I think I've had some level of depression going on for quite awhile now. It's encouraging to hear so many if your success stories in dealing with depression.

OP -- I'm glad to hear from your last post that things are getting more manageable and that you're feeling a bit better. I hope things keep looking up. Thank you for posting about this - it really does help to know we're not alone.

You guys are the best.

I've been having a bit of trouble with PPD these past few weeks. It's hard to separate out what is PPD and what's been caused by actual illness (I had a post-partum infection followed by an MS flare-up)... but when I read this thread I recognized EXACTLY what is going on. I'm in shock.

The one thing I can say is that it's easier now that I know what it is. I start to feel that way, wait for the let-down and sure enough... there it is. Wow. Before, I think my mind was casting around for something to explain those feelings, you know?

[Milkymommi]

I suspect the longer this thread survives, the more mamas will show up here saying "Holy cow, I thought I was the only one". It's comforting to know that we're not crazy or alone but super sad knowing so many of us have or are struggling with this and there's little to no information out there on it.

I spoke with both my ND and a CLC as well as an IBCLC about it and had them all read this thread.

My ND has been looking into this with me for a while and had heard of it before but didn't have any direct wisdom. Since then she's worked on it and come up with a big whopping dose of Pulsatilla. So, we'll try that along with my other supps which have pretty much nixed the ppd otherwise but tnot the letdown deal. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

The CLC and the IBCLC were just as stumped. One having heard of it a few times, both assumed it was probably ppd related but had no direct info either. They are however super interested in helping me come up with some answers.

It's disheartening that with the wealth of info out there these days on bfing that there's nothing being said about this. I agree though that it's probably mostly due to the fact that it seems to carry such a "shameful" conotation and I can certainly see how mamas might struggle with feeling like a failure or fearing that someone might think they're crazy or "not a good mom for feeling like that". All of which is simply not true but hard to get away from.

[mamaboobaAES]

Originally Posted by MilkTrance

yes, word for word, totally how I feel

And why isn't there more help? Hate to be all bitter about it, but I really think it's because it's a woman's issue, so there are all sorts of strange complexities surrounding it, some of which women do to themselves such as questioning their worth as a mother ("if I were a good mom wouldn't I feel great nursing my DC?," "I haven't heard about this before, I must be the only one," etc), so it makes it almost 'shameful' to disclose such things. Also I think there is a real prejudice against emotional/psychological problems. They aren't as easy to deal with, not tangible like the physical. I ALSO think that the reason we have problems with mental illness and emotional/psychological problems is because we associate emotion with women.

From time to time I get this icky feeling of extreme anxiety and irritability that comes on suddenly. I have found it is related to my blood sugar and eating as well as anxiety over tangible things that I can fix. For example I am irritated by the house being a mess, people getting into my personal space and people being passive aggressive. I visited my chiro and she did some emotional work and also reactivated the nerves and energy that was switched off that was controlling my pancreas. Through muscle testing I was able to get off of certain supplements that were making me weaker and onto better ones. I take 3 fish oils a day and also take thyroid support (herbal/ vitamin / mineral mix) and also B12. The B12 was being depleted by breastfeeding.

I also work to come up with solutions to the people being in my space, and I do the chores that other people are passively aggressively ignoring, and I feel better when the house is clean, I am well-fed, etc. Sometimes I also get irritable because I am very hungry or thirsty or haven't eaten well. I feel much better after a meal with lots of veggies and protein and carbs. Also drink lots of pure water and go to a chiro who specializes in applied kinesiology and energy work. THe B12 and switching EFAs helped me a lot. Also get a lot of sunlight and exercise and try to have some fun. And make sure you are getting lots of sleep.

[mom0810]

The feelings described above in the PP are not PPD, by the way. Those are normal feelings of agitation and stress and the poster outlined some appropriate ways of dealing with them.

PPD is much more serious and does require professional intervention. Anxiety while nursing "could," I guess, be a sign, but it's certainly not enough for a diagnosis.

[ahdoula]

Originally Posted by mom0810

PPD is much more serious and does require professional intervention. Anxiety while nursing "could," I guess, be a sign, but it's certainly not enough for a diagnosis.

I realize you were speaking to the PP specifically but you need to be careful in not offending these other woman suffering from this problem.

When it comes down to it there are many different kinds of PPD and I don't think it's a good idea to criticize anyone's feelings concerning their postpartum emotional state.

No one likes to be feeling horrible after having a baby and have someone say, "yeah, well it's not PPD." Considering so many woman stay silent on the issue, and that this is such an obscure problem, these woman should be encouraged.

What has been being said here is that these woman have very intense feeling, negative feelings while nursing that didn't start until they were postpartum. Textbook PPD it is not but it needs to be taken just as seriously because for these woman it is very real and a very disturbing way to feel.

[ComfyCozy]

Add me into the "I can't believe I read this" group!

I wish I could say it was a couple minutes of icky feelings, or that it just lasted while baby was on the breast, but for me it was the descent of a black cloud over my mood that refused to go away. It would worsen when baby was nursing, but it did not go away until she was weaned. This did not happen with any of my babies except the last. It got pretty bad to the point where I just wanted to retreat from everyone except the baby and I started to have days where I didn't want to get out of bed. It took a long time before I realized that the intensity of the depression was linked to the frequency and duration of the baby's nursing. We almost weaned, and the black cloud started to lift, but she wasn't ready and so the nursing increased. The black cloud appeared again, with a vengeance. I was off meds by this point and we just had to let the nursing go. I was not functioning for the rest of the family, and frankly, because of reduction surgery she was only getting drops of milk, so I knew she wasn't being nutritionally deprived. We had a good 18 months of nursing.

I'm dreading the reappearance of the black cloud when this next baby is born. I was on the verge of going back on the zoloft (after having been off for about 6 months) when we found out I was pregnant, and I've struggled with my mood all throughout the pregnancy, using Sam-E and Inositol, but I just feel like I'm going to fall off a cliff when this baby comes. I can only comfort nurse, but not nursing her is just not an option I'm willing to take.

[Milkymommi]

I was talking today with the IBCLC that I mentioned earlier and she reminded me of something she's said to me when I first approached her about this issue. Oxytocin. She remembered dealing with a mom some years ago who's oxytocin was completely off the charts and she has similar experiences to what we are while nursing. Maybe this may be a good place to start looking for some on this thread... have our respective providers do a work up and check our oxytocin levels as well as thyroids.

I'm getting a lab slip Friday for myself. I'm so determined to figure this out.