Need help with leaving the pool

[mightymoo]

I'm a SAHM to DD who is 4 and DS who is 2. This summer we joined the pool club I belonged to as a kid, and I've been looking forward to my kids having the same fun experience I had there, but my DD's behavior is really getting in the way of this. DD fits the 'spirited child' definition - she is VERY strong willed and gets very upset if she doesn't get her way, any time she is told "no" in any form, she generally responds by screaming 'NO! I WANT X!' unless of course she can see a way to manipulate the rules and circumstances to her favor, she is very intelligent.

I am reaching the point where I am dreading having to go to the pool because she is so horrible trying to leave. We don't blow in and blow back out - she gets plenty of fun time, I'm talking leaving after being there 3-6 hours. I will warn DD that we are leaving in 30 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 2 minutes, I give her plenty of time and warnings to wrap things up. I then ask her to get out and dry herself off, she will not get out of the pool. She won't get out of the pool until I physically walk away to the exit, at which time she starts screaming. I absolutley adore having my child screaming at me in the middle of a crowded club full of parents. She will do things like run away to the other side of the pool when I've already dried off and convince her brother to run off with her, so now I'm chasing them (really not what I want to do)

Part of the problem is that I have DS, who is usually pretty willing to leave when we are ready to go but absolutely insists I carry him out. (Any attempts to get him to walk generally result in getting my legs tackled while he screams). So, now I have to carry DS (35+ pounds), plus 2-3 bags full of wet towels, clothes snacks and our bag full of pool toys out to the car, while simultaneously dealing with DD throwing a tantrum because she doesn't want to leave.

So I'm looking for ideas short of relinquishing our membership and never going back.

[sunnysideup]

One thing I have noticed--it can be possible to give too much warning. For some kids, when you start warning a half hour before, it feels like so much time and so many warnings that they see it as something that can be drawn out forever. When we go somewhere, we talk about how long we'll be there before we go (we'll be staying until lunchtime, or whatever), and then I give a ten and 5 minute warning. Some kids prefer the "two more trips down the water slide and then we need to go" type of warning.

It can help to talk about how to leave at another time. When you're sitting down at the dinner table (or another neutral time that you have each other's attention), start a conversation about how much you enjoy going to the pool, but how it makes it difficult when it is so hard to leave. Empathize with her about how hard it is to leave something fun, but running away when it is time to leave is not acceptable. It's not safe for either of you to be running, and not fair for her to make you chase her, it makes it hard to pack up all your things. Ask for her help in finding a solution, "can we think of some ways to make it easier to leave?" Brainstorm some solutions together. Kids often like to be given a little responsibility, maybe she could be in charge of putting pool toys in a bag? Maybe she could keep a snack or special toy in the car, for the ride home?

[mightymoo]

I have tried giving less warning, and I've tried giving her tasks. She was very helpful with the toys the first few times, now she just refuses.

We have also tried talking about it at other times, but I will look for a good time and try asking her if she can think of ways to make it easier. Generally though she responds to any request to think of alternative solutions with 'I don't WANT TO THINK - YOU THINK!'. She's not really an alternative solution kind of kid. The other day she wanted to turn the fan off because it was too loud for her to hear her toy and I tried to work through to a win-win scenario (her playing with the toy further away from the fan) but she was unwilling to offer any other solutions but the one she wanted originally and wasn't willing to consider alternatives I offered. But I'll give it a try.

[blessed]

Can you explain to her that she will not be able to come back tomorrow if she acts that way? My 3 yo grasps this pretty well. I explain that the yelling and carrying on is hard for other people to listen to and that it's not a good way to act in public.

The key is not to make it an empty threat. I would calmly explain it to her on the way home from the pool after she's calmed down. Then, the next day, remind her on the way there about your agreement. Then when she starts to tantrum at time to go, crouch down at her level, talk calmly and gently without anger or frustration, and remind her what will happen if she continues.

Maybe you can load up the car prior to asking the kids to leave, so that your hands aren't full and you're not as stressed (is there a lifeguard or another mom to watch them momentarily?)

Give her all of your sympathy and support. Have a special treat ready - a chocolate bar or something she really likes - and let her know she can have it as soon as you get going. Let her know that you are on her side and that you really want to help her succeed with the new rule, and that you're trying to help her in any way you can.

If all fails and she fullblown tantrums and runs, just get her home as you usually do, but after all is calm remind her that she won't be able to swim tomorrow. Be sad for her in a genuine way. You want her to swim, it's just that we can't let kids carry on like that in public. It's just not allowed.

Then stick to it, no matter how unpleasant tomorrow is. Do not cave or bargain or give another chance. That night, plan with her about strategies that will help the two of you negotiate leaving without tantrums.

The day after tomorrow, happily set off for another swimming adventure with a clean slate. Gently remind her about the agreement on the way to the pool.

If she feels like this is a power struggle between the two of you, she'll shoot her own foot off (i.e. never swim again) just to win her point. That's why it's so critical to approach it as you doing your best to help her deal with this difficult problem - the one of her bothering other people so much with her tantrums. Obviously, greatly praise her for her successes, even if only partial.

[mavery]

Have you tried one day saying when you are leaving and she is refusing
"This is not safe. I need your help leaving the pool. If you don't feel like leaving the pool calmly and safely we will not come to the pool tomorrow (or whenever it is you would be going)." ?

The chances are it won't make a difference to the current departure, but then if you actually do not go to the pool the next day (and without rubbing her nose in it, make sure she knows you are not going because of this problem), she may be motivated to cooperate the next day when you invite her to try again. Then repeat the procedure. If it is clear to her that you are staying home because struggling with her is difficult for you and unsafe for everyone (running around and antics by the pool are definitely not acceptable), NOT because you want to punish her, she may be willing to accept a certain type of behaviour as her responsibility to enable everyone to be at the pool.

She obviously enjoys the pool so it seems like if you are willing to miss a couple of days and let her know that IF NECESSARY you would give up going altogether, it might help her get through this.

ETA I see my post is a lot like blessed's. I guess I was typing this while she was posting.

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by blessed

Maybe you can load up the car prior to asking the kids to leave, so that your hands aren't full and you're not as stressed (is there a lifeguard or another mom to watch them momentarily?)

Unfortunatley I really can't - there are two sections to the pool, the big pool has lifeguards, but the baby pool is seperate and fenced off and it does not have lifeguards, parents are supposed to watch their children in the baby pool, so I can't leave them there and go out to the car.

Can you explain to her that she will not be able to come back tomorrow if she acts that way? My 3 yo grasps this pretty well. I explain that the yelling and carrying on is hard for other people to listen to and that it's not a good way to act in public.

The key is not to make it an empty threat. I would calmly explain it to her on the way home from the pool after she's calmed down. Then, the next day, remind her on the way there about your agreement. Then when she starts to tantrum at time to go, crouch down at her level, talk calmly and gently without anger or frustration, and remind her what will happen if she continues.

Give her all of your sympathy and support. Have a special treat ready - a chocolate bar or something she really likes - and let her know she can have it as soon as you get going. Let her know that you are on her side and that you really want to help her succeed with the new rule, and that you're trying to help her in any way you can.

If all fails and she fullblown tantrums and runs, just get her home as you usually do, but after all is calm remind her that she won't be able to swim tomorrow. Be sad for her in a genuine way. You want her to swim, it's just that we can't let kids carry on like that in public. It's just not allowed.

Then stick to it, no matter how unpleasant tomorrow is. Do not cave or bargain or give another chance. That night, plan with her about strategies that will help the two of you negotiate leaving without tantrums.

The day after tomorrow, happily set off for another swimming adventure with a clean slate. Gently remind her about the agreement on the way to the pool.

If she feels like this is a power struggle between the two of you, she'll shoot her own foot off (i.e. never swim again) just to win her point. That's why it's so critical to approach it as you doing your best to help her deal with this difficult problem - the one of her bothering other people so much with her tantrums. Obviously, greatly praise her for her successes, even if only partial.

This has been our main tactic, though perhaps not so concrete. We've been talking to her about how if she makes it hard on mommy, mommy doesn't want to back come to the pool and I actually had been avoiding it for a week or two until yesterday because its so painful for me. And when I went yesterday I avoided leaving until DH could get there and help, and it wasn't any better. :P

DD is really a here and now sort of kid. Telling her she'll lose something in the future generally doesn't have much of an effect on her.

Arg, I don't mean to be shooting down ideas, just trying to explain further. DD is just a really spirited kid and doesn't respond like most kids.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Although it might not help solve the problem in the long term, while you are working on it, I would search for ways to make the actual act of leaving physically easier for you. Some thoughts might be a cart for the bags (maybe the 2 YO could push?) and/or stroller for the toddler. Or for that matter, a stroller for her -- she's not that big. If you have a double stroller so much the better.

I might also change the order that I work with the kids -- pack as much as possible, get her out, dry and dressed (so she's less likely to jump back in) before you get the little one out.

I would also be suited up and go in to get her, rather than calling from the side and/or chasing her. That way there is less build up for a tantrum and its not nearly so much fun and/or attention getting.

There is nothing wrong with her, or you, getting into the car wet and just heading for home -- reducing the drama at poolside might help keep everyone calmer. Carseats dry just fine and aren't damaged by water. Or maybe just a simple coverup for everyone that just slips over the head?

Maybe a snack in the car? Or a really fun reason to get home? Not as a bribe (if you do this you get that) but just there, or "we have X at home".

Also you might want to check the basics of making kids easier to manage -- is she getting enough sleep or has bedtime slipped due to summer? Good diet? Enough attention outside of pool time? Sometimes I've managed to solve my difficult times by adjusting other basics.

[sunnysideup]

Could she be over-tired or hungry? I have one dd with very little body fat--swimming makes her very tired and hungry, and it shows up in the form of crabbiness and irritability.

Originally Posted by mightymoo

We've been talking to her about how if she makes it hard on mommy, mommy doesn't want to back come to the pool and I actually had been avoiding it for a week or two until yesterday because its so painful for me.

I'd make this more concrete--it is unsafe for you to run in the pool area. If we are going to go to the pool, I need to be able to count on you to not run away when it's time to leave.

Some kids have real trouble controlling that impulse to run, and it can help to come up with a code word to help them remember. With my 2yo, we practiced playing "red light, green light." I say "green light" she runs, I say "red light" she freezes. Now, when she runs from me I can say "red light" and she remembers to stop.

[rainbowmoon]

I have this exact same problem everywhere I go with my 3yo! it's so embarrasing because after running away numerous times, he will throw himself on the floor screaming. :

[blessed]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

DD is really a here and now sort of kid. Telling her she'll lose something in the future generally doesn't have much of an effect on her..

Especially since she already knows it's not going to pan out the way you're saying that it will, yk?

I wholeheartedly believe that this technique will work - if you DO it.

I don't think it helps to talk about not going back to the pool if this and when that. Children just don't respond to speculation when they are so caught up in the moment. You have to set a concrete goal for her, help her try to attain it, and carry out the consequence exactly as you described it to her if she fails to carry it through.

It might take two times, maybe three, but she'll figure it out.

[chfriend]

My guess: you are actually staying *too* long...until she doesn't have the resources to transition.

My suggestion, don't stay more than 2 hours and when you are leaving be going somewhere fun. Then, you are not so much leaving the pool as you are headed to the park.

Another thing that would work with my kids is to say, "Please let me know when you are ready to go." Usually they are ready before I am and I have to ask for a 10 minute warning to finish up my play. Really.

I would not walk toward the exit and wait for my kid to scream. It would feel too much like a threat to leave her there. What if she didn't scream? What if she acted like it was just fine with her if you and ds got in the car and went off? If she calls your bluff, you're in a fine kettle of fish.

[mmace]

One thing that really helped with my son (and still helps, at the age of nine!) is *not* focusing on time, and instead focusing on activity. For us, at the pool, when it's time to go I gve them each four last jumps in. They can count it off themselves, it's a concrete thing, and it makes getting out much easier. Giving them an amount of time just seems random to a kid - five more minutes at the pool goes by in the blink of an eye, whereas five more minutes until we get to Grandma's house and can go potty is an eternity.