6 y/o threatening with knives

[a_work_in_progress]

My 6 y/o has recently taken to threatening her little brother with knives. They're butter knives, but still it's disturbing. How should I handle this?

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Originally Posted by a_work_in_progress

My 6 y/o has recently taken to threatening her little brother with knives. They're butter knives, but still it's disturbing. How should I handle this?

Obviously, put the knives away..

But, describe the threats. Is she being sarcastc or serious? Not that she really would do it, but does she SOUND serious? Do you get the feeling that she might do something to him?

[a_work_in_progress]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

Obviously, put the knives away..

But, describe the threats. Is she being sarcastc or serious? Not that she really would do it, but does she SOUND serious? Do you get the feeling that she might do something to him?

She's being serious, and extremely angry. She's doing it when they're using the knives to make sandwiches and such. Yes, I feel that she might try to hurt him.

[Rigama]

Wow, that must be really disturbing to see.

I agree, take the knives away.

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Originally Posted by a_work_in_progress

She's being serious, and extremely angry. She's doing it when they're using the knives to make sandwiches and such. Yes, I feel that she might try to hurt him.

I don't have any good answers because this is over my head. But, taking knives away is the best start. (hide them) but it isn't going to help how she feels. It's just a safety precaution.

I have some plastic character utensils from Zoo Pals. Maybe you could buy a set of those, and they can only cook with those. It will only keep her from hurting him seriously. It still hurts, but it wont leave a scar. Again, that is JUST for this one situation. It isn't going to help her.

I hope other MOms have some ideas for dealing with her anger.

[mavery]

Do you have a sense of what she's angry about? Is she actually angry with him or is she going through a more generally rough time? Aside from putting the knives away, I would think the main tactic is to figure out why she's feeling this way and try to help her find solutions to what is angering her so much as well as talking about other ways of dealing with her anger.

[a_work_in_progress]

She has always been high needs and has had an angry personality. I suspect she may be on the spectrum.

[LynnS6]

Have you thought about therapy for her? Play therapy might teach her how to handle her emotions. If she's always been high needs, highly angry, and is possibly on the autism spectrum, then she might need more strategies than a typical kid needs.

You might also want to consider having her assessed by a developmental pediatrician to determine if she is indeed on the spectrum. Knowing that might help you get therapies that help her cope better - so for example if she's got sensory issues (many kids on the spectrum do), then getting her occupational therapy for the sensory issues might help her regulate herself better. Social skills work might help her express herself more verbally and less physically.

I guess I'd start with therapy and think about further assessment after you see how the therapy helps (or not).

[WuWei]

I see you have a new baby, could the "acting out" be to gain your undivided attention? I can't imagine how busy it is with all of them home for the summer, with a new little one too. Do you know what proceeds the anger developing? In the moment: connection with her emotional experience, validation of the ugly feelings, facilitation to observe the impact of her actions, seeking to understand the underlying need (HALT?). The HALT theory helps me to trouble shoot: tired, angry, hungry or overstimulated (not "mean"), lonely. Something along the lines of "Wow! DD you sound really angry about the sandwich thing. You want to be able to use the jelly too?! You seem to be upset that ds doesn't want you to use it?" And you probably will get a loud "YES! I want to use the jelly now!!"

I find that connecting with our son's experience allows him to move through the emotion rather than feeling that he must hold on to his anger and defend his position/"rights"/"fairness". (I am still working on remembering validation with dh. I just want to *explain* the other pov instead. ) We don't use the vocabulary of rights and fairness, but instead try to find what does each person need. So, I'd also be validating her 'You believe it is bad ("unfair, mean, hateful", whatever descriptive word
SHE used) not to share the jelly?' (or whatever thing is in conflict) I generally get something like 'Well, I want to use it too! I don't want to wait! He can't use it all the time.' And again I try to support the strength of the emotion through *hearing* (not agreeing, but fully listening) to ds's perspective. Saying 'I understand, I see, Oh!, Hmmm, that must hurt, that sounds upsetting, that sounds scary/sad/hard, do you feel angry/mad/tired/hungry?' etc.,

And THEN, after connecting, I'd describe the observations that you see in Ds's actions: 'Ds sounds like he isn't ready to share the jelly yet. He is holding tightly to it. Do you think that he looks ready to share? What can we do to work this out? Do you want to use the other jelly? Do you want to sit on my lap while she finishes her turn?, etc.' If there is an inability to see another's pov, I usually find that is when we have hit overload and ds's own needs are too strong to empathize with someone else's. So, trying to redirect toward meeting the underlying needs (again after connecting FIRST) is often the easiest next step. And then discuss the situation later when everyone is calmer. 'Wow! You sound so upset. Do you think that you might be getting tired? I know I have a tough time when I get tired. Do you want to come over and eat your snack and sit with me?'

I am comfortable with looking for patterns to the incidents and working to address the overwhelming stimuli which brought our son to such distress in the first place. Our son has physical sensory seeking behaviors, food intolerances, and is highly sensitive to outside stimuli such as crowds, lights, noise, clothing, etc. We are very selective about engaging in activities when he isn't well rested and has eaten some protein. Has there been a lot of commotion, perhaps, without enough food energy that is the trigger to the angry outburst? How can this be proactively addressed so that the energy doesn't move toward threats? We have had significant progression to being able to share, take turns, listen to other's needs, honoring boundaries, etc. (both in playgroups and at home) by avoiding dairy and other food intolerances (let me know if you need more info).

In the event that our son would be forceful against anther person, (can't remember that happening for a long time), I would remove the "victim". Or interject my body between them, rather than using force to 'get my way'.I strongly believe that our actions imprint more than our words. So, saying 'we may not grab, hit, kick, etc.' because the other person doesn't want you to do that; but if *I* am grabbing, and holding him when he doesn't want me to do that.....you see the confused and contradictory message.

For instance young children were really hard to play with because they take and touch things indiscriminately. Older children who have more impulse control were more companionable. Also, because our son is very physical, it is essential for him to have physical outlets. So, indoors with other children on rainy days are harder (ie. shorter tolerance before frustration overload) than on sunny days outside. So, being present to help redirect the younger child is a full time job, itself! Do you have any help in the late afternoons, when everyone is more boisterous? Are there things that you can do to provide parallel play, so that they are not struggling to share when hungry?

By recognizing the patterns of what worked best for ds, we have a full and engaging social calendar without the meltdowns. One aspect that has become apparent also is that I can not be off chatting away while I expect him to remain companionable when other children are 'in his space'. Personally, I found most playdates are more frustration than benefit for children before they are asking to see each other, usually around age 4-4.5. So, I imagine it is frustrating to dd to have a little one in her space all the time. Are there ways to provide for her to have time without little ones in her space? A special routine at lunch where you connect together, perhaps, making everyone's lunch with you, while the others are playing separately?

Basically, I avoid putting ds in an environment to the limit of his endurance. I believe that grabbing and hitting are symptoms of overstimulation beyond his developmental or situational impulse control, imo. The HALT theory has served me well in examining what needs are unmet. But the prevention is something that I help ds to look at 'How does your body feel?', when I see him starting to be more impatient, before the escalation.

Oh, Cherry Plum or Rescue Remedy help to settle ds if we overlook the point of no return and he melts down due to hunger, frustration, overly tired, overstimulation. There are usually signals that he is not at his best that I help him to recognize and listen to and address.

Anyway, this may be all the things that you tried. But, this is what I try to do.

HTH, Pat

Edited to correct pronouns.

[fluttermama]

((((hugs)))) This is probably a good time to get an psych eval and a diagnosis.

[a_work_in_progress]

I just wanted to send off a quick response... Thank you to everybody who has responded thus far.

6 y/o DD has started seeing a therapist recently.

I'll respond more later when I don't have such a headache.