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Mind your own beeswax, ********! - Page 3

post #41 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by momto l&a View Post
:

Thats crazy IMO

Wonder why Because thats certainly a good way to curb someones desire for learning!
no idea, its a big town, 3 branches of librarys, two are attached to schools!! So its pathetic, you cant research your project with more than 3 books now. you can get out more than 3 books, as long as they are from different sections, and being that ds is a kid, we are limited to 3 board books. I've noticed that using the self check machines it seems to override their limit though
post #42 of 103
If your child can play on their own computer at home, why would they need to play the same games on the one at the library, as well? Wouldn't you rather they look at all those books or magazines they don't have at home? I've always felt the computers at the library are for those patrons that don't have any other access to computers/internet.

Ds (age 8 1/2 years) has his own computer. So, when we go to the library, he doesn't use their computers. For us, the library is for books.

I can understand being asked to leave if a child is making a loud fuss and not listening to Mommy when it comes to calming down. Even if you are the only ones in the building, it is about courtesy, which needs to be taught early. Having a melt-down? Fine. But, we are leaving so as not to bother others that are trying to concentrate. Even if nobody else is there, there is the need to learn that that unacceptable behavior has a price. In this case, leaving the library until you can go there without screaming. It's pretty simple.

I don't mean libraries should be the silent tombs that some of us remember ("Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Whisper, don't talk!"). We had a school librarian when I was in grade 2 that carried a wooden ruler on a string attached to her belt. She had no hesitation in using it on unruly kids! : Thank goodness times have changed!

But, there should be respect towards the other folks that are also using the facility. If I needed to use a library computer to do research on something (say, a school project or employment information), it could be bothersome to have a pre-schooler playing games right next to me. In our library, all the computers are together. There is no separate children's library or computer area.

Same goes for doing homework and other research (lots of our high schoolers use the library after school). It's tough to study if a little munchkin is talking really loud or running around.

Also, for everyone venting about the evil book-slingers rudeness to you, do any of you actually complain to the librarian in charge? It sounds like (and, I could be completely wrong, of course) you just put up with it. For the OP, I would have immediately asked to see that woman's superior and complained about her attitude. I doubt you are the only patron she treats that way.

We are fortunate and have a really nice library in our small town with 4 great librarians (Melsie, they ARE librarians, all with degrees in library science and not one of 'em has worked for the DMV, which, in our town, has a very nice group of employees, too!). They will order anything for you. They will suggest other titles they think you might like. They will call you when a book is late (late-return fees are pretty much un-heard of here). They will go the extra mile to help you in any way they can as regards books or other media needed.

But, they don't do much when it comes to kids running around and being loud. I mean REALLY running and REALLY loud. I've been that mean other patron that has told a child to stop running or to quiet down a bit because they were yelling and their parent wasn't saying anything. We went to story hour a couple of times until ds asked if we could stop because other children were interrupting or being disruptive and the parent ignored it or wasn't there (many parents will drop the children off for the hour and come back later) and he found it annoying. The same thing went with the craft hours they have. When I complained about it, I was told, the librarians are nervous about "disciplining" children, especially those without parents accompanying them. "We aren't supposed to confront the patrons, whatever their ages. But, if you want to, it's fine with us, we won't stop you!"
post #43 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Hmm...I'll edit if I'm forced to.

This same lady tried to block dd from checking out a stack of books the first day we went. She counted them and said "You have ten books here!" I thought she was complimenting us for reading so much to dd and just kind of smiled and nodded. But she said "You can't check out this many books at one time!" :

I was surprised and said I wasn't aware of any limit on the number of books. And to be honest, this was a small stack for us. Usually we bring a canvas grocery bag and fill it up - probably more like twenty or thirty books. We go to the library about once or twice per week, so it's not like we have them for long.

She thought and said "Well, I'm not sure if there's an actual policy. But I just don't think it's a good idea to take this many books at once."

Good grief. These are children's books, yk? Dd runs through five or ten at any given session of us reading to her, and we read to her every day.

It just really surprised and disappointed me, the difference in the attitudes towards the kids reading and learning. At our old library they would beam smiles at us and tell dd what a lucky girl she was to get so many books to read.

I guess I'm missing our old library a lot .
She likes to play cowboys and indians! I guess you're going to have to play right back! What a youknowwhat.
post #44 of 103
Thread Starter 
Dd and I go to the library and hang out for a couple of hours most times. We end up reading a dozen or so books, she participates in any story times that are taking place, she looks at the kids' magazines, and if she feels like it, she gets on the computer.

Sometimes we go outside to the park next door and play on the swings before coming back inside to play some in the library. Yes, we do this even though we have our own swingset in the backyard.

For us the library is about spending an enjoyable afternoon learning .
post #45 of 103
I know about the stress of library. I get frustrated because though the children's section is in a separte part of the building (which is great, I can sit and read stories with the boys) the checkout is right there in the middle of all the main section. It is very frustrating to try and control the boys and juggle an arm full of books and checkout and keep them quiet. Plus they keep telling me to use the "self checkout" (the are really pushing that here) and I've finally just told them that I don't care to. I want to boys to get used to going to the library but they are young and very energetic and frankly it wears me out to go sometimes. Thanks goodness I haven't had any really mean librarians. And I'm sorry but 10 books is a ridiculous limit. Here was can check out 50 at a time on each card.
post #46 of 103
We seem to have nice library staff here.(have no ideas which ones are true librarians) I'm terribly shy, so I don't talk to any of them. I don't even know how many items we can check out at a time. I'm sure I don't come anywhere near it since I will lose items if I take too many home at one time. I need to be able to keep track of them. I usually let my girls pick out up to 3 things each.
We were just at our library Fri night, and there was a 2 yr old that shrieked every now and then - no biggy. None of the staff said anything, which I thought was pretty cool since it was the children's area after all. The mother wasn't ignoring it, so I was satisfied. I am only bothered when parents just carry on paying no mind to the fact that their child is being really loud where people are trying to concentrate. I have tried to study there w/ a child doing that. I had to keep re-reading the same passages. It got annoying.

We recently moved back from another state, and the kid's librarian up there was like the OP's librarian. I was afraid to do anything wrong, so we didn't frequent the library. My 3yr old at the time was immediately, sternly directed off of a computer in the kid's area. There are signs saying children are not allowed to use them.: I actually didn't allow her to use them since there was that sign, but she slipped away for a second. I didn't even have a chance to direct DD elsewhere before that lady pounced. It's a shame that parents so often don't pay any attention to their children's behavior, so those of us that do care how our kids behave have to pay for it w/ staff that assume we are all inattentive.

Also, I asked once if they had any Dora books since that's what my 3 yr old was into at the time. OMG, you would have thought I was asking for Playboy. Why would I want to read such commercialistic crap to my child?! (she didn't really say that but the word commercial was in there along w/ her look of disdain.) : ...And no they didn't carry "those" books.
post #47 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 View Post
I can understand being asked to leave if a child is making a loud fuss and not listening to Mommy when it comes to calming down. Even if you are the only ones in the building, it is about courtesy, which needs to be taught early. Having a melt-down? Fine. But, we are leaving so as not to bother others that are trying to concentrate. Even if nobody else is there, there is the need to learn that that unacceptable behavior has a price. In this case, leaving the library until you can go there without screaming. It's pretty simple.

Your words here have made me re-think how I handled one of these situations recently. I am careful to visit the library only at times that ds is *fresh* and not getting tired or hungry. And we don't do a big book selection trip at the same time as we do a program/story-time trip, it's just too much to ask of ds.

On this unfortunate day we had gone only to select books. We had finished using the self-checkout, but had to wait in line for the librarian to fetch for us a book we had had on request for weeks that had finally come in. Just as we were walking to the check-out desk something set ds off (I still don't know what) and he began crying loudly and inconsolably. While I tried my darndest to sooth him - I even gave him my cell phone to call Timbuktu - I sent dds with my library card to get their long awaited novel.

DS and I waited in the lobby to be as far from patrons as I could without losing sight of my dds, but honestly with the accoustics in that part of the building I doubt it helped.

If we had left, we could not have gotten back to the library before our special book was sent to the next patron in line.

My thinking:
1. I didn't want dds to suffer because of their brother's meltdown and my inability to control it.
2. We were leaving almost as quickly as we could.
3. I sincerely wouldn't have been upset if I had been one of the quiet patrons and someone else had been me that day.

But I can also understand your arguement.

In an ideal world I would take ds to the library and encourage him to read and enjoy the books available. As soon as he lost interest we would leave. However, I have two other young library patrons in my charge who wouldn't get nearly enough library time if DS alone set the schedule. So, I play with him at the library as long as I can keep him pretty quiet and in the children's area. I do not let him randomly pull books off shelves (which, by the way, he would LOVE to do), but I do let him toddle as fast as his little legs will carry him up and down the picture book aisles. It's our family's compromise. But, since this isn't truly the *correct* way to behave at the library and we aren't the only patrons, am I being selfish?
post #48 of 103
we have only 1 library in our town, and the head librarian was a mean control freak who would shush my then 18 months old for talking when he was looking at picture books. he wasn't even loud! we've been avoiding the library for a while, which is really a shame, as there are no other places to go to, other than the musum, the cafe, and the store. now the old librarian is gone, but no new one to replace her, and the library is open 2 hours a day, 4 days a week. we end up going to the cafe almost every day. i get my tea, read to the kids, chat with others. everybody loves my kids there! :
post #49 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by annabanana View Post
...we end up going to the cafe almost every day. i get my tea, read to the kids, chat with others. everybody loves my kids there! :
Another think I miss about our old library. They had a little cafe set up inside with pastries and cookies, teas, coffee, juices.

You can't go anywhere with a 3 yo for longer than about 45 minutes and it's time for them to eat. Being hungry is dd's biggest trigger for irritability, too. It was so nice to be able to just walk over and get some juice and an oatmeal raisin cookie. Then, back to the books .

They also had the common sense to put all of the young childrens' books (board books, etc) next to an nice sunny area with a small play kitchen, couches and an adult magazine rack. So moms would pack in their toddlers, set up a blanket on the floor for the baby, and relax on the couch with a magazine and some good conversation with other moms. Meanwhile the toddlers and preschoolers can play with the toys, each other, and also the books.

There was constantly a spontaneous storytime taking place. A child would find a book and bring it over to be read, mom starts reading and the other five kids in the area migrate over to hear the story. And it just takes turns like that.

Oh, I miss it.
post #50 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Another think I miss about our old library. They had a little cafe set up inside with pastries and cookies, teas, coffee, juices.

You can't go anywhere with a 3 yo for longer than about 45 minutes and it's time for them to eat. Being hungry is dd's biggest trigger for irritability, too. It was so nice to be able to just walk over and get some juice and an oatmeal raisin cookie. Then, back to the books .

They also had the common sense to put all of the young childrens' books (board books, etc) next to an nice sunny area with a small play kitchen, couches and an adult magazine rack. So moms would pack in their toddlers, set up a blanket on the floor for the baby, and relax on the couch with a magazine and some good conversation with other moms. Meanwhile the toddlers and preschoolers can play with the toys, each other, and also the books.

There was constantly a spontaneous storytime taking place. A child would find a book and bring it over to be read, mom starts reading and the other five kids in the area migrate over to hear the story. And it just takes turns like that.

Oh, I miss it.
oh, i miss YOUR library too...

but you gave me a great idea--i will ask the owner of the cafe whether we can have a small bookshelf of books there to read! i'd be happy to donate some books!
post #51 of 103
She gives librarians and library workers a bad name!
post #52 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marybethorama View Post
She gives librarians and library workers a bad name!
You know, I actually don't think she was really being especially rude or unreasonable. As some have pointed out, if you see a 3 yo at a keyboard, chances are not bad that they're going to be using the equipment irresponsibly.

Of course, if she'd bothered to just pay attention instead of jumping to conclusions she would have seen that dd was sitting quietly with her headphones on, pointing and clicking to make words in an educational game. But I don't think in her mind it mattered how dd was using the computer. In her world, a child did not belong on a computer !! I'm pretty sure she wasn't expecting me to step up and defend dd's right to be there.

And that's the part that bugs me. Here I am working my tail off to encourage dd's love of books and reading and learning. And here we are in the one place of all places where it is just critical for dd to feel joyous and welcome. And here she is, stomping all over a child's heart. Making her feel unsure and afraid, worried that she is doing something wrong.

To be honest, even if dd had been sitting at the computer banging on the keys, that was not the appropriate way to intervene. She made dd feel as though she didn't belong. And that's just wrong .
post #53 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post

I guess I'm missing our old library a lot .
I miss my old Library as well, for similar reasons, not to mention here we lack a good selection. I'm actually seriously considering paying the 25$ fee to be able to check out from the neighboring county Library system.
post #54 of 103
There are a bunch of 'old' women who run our library as well. However, there is a huge playroom with lots of toys and puzzles and a puppet theater, plus the libraians laugh and chat with the children. They even know kids names.

Inappropriate people come in all genders and ages.
post #55 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
no idea, its a big town, 3 branches of librarys, two are attached to schools!! So its pathetic, you cant research your project with more than 3 books now. you can get out more than 3 books, as long as they are from different sections, and being that ds is a kid, we are limited to 3 board books. I've noticed that using the self check machines it seems to override their limit though
With the 2 libraries being attached to schools even makes that 'rule' worse IMO.

Those self check machines are smart
post #56 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
There are a bunch of 'old' women who run our library as well. However, there is a huge playroom with lots of toys and puzzles and a puppet theater, plus the libraians laugh and chat with the children. They even know kids names.
This is how it is at our local library as well. Color me shocked when they remembered the young ones names.
post #57 of 103
I hear lots of negatives about our local librarians, but have not had any bad experiences yet (knock on wood). There is one librarian who is particularly stern and we try to avoid her.

Our town is growing, but the library has not kept pace. It is too small, lacks a good selection of books, has NO audio recordings for kids, it is packed in the afternoons with kids doing homework -- and yet everyone seems to do just fine all squished in there. We try to go in the mornings when I know it is not as crowded and my kids will be better behaved.

But really, the library needs a multi-million dollar overhaul.

I am so jealous of some of the libraries I read described here. Cafes? Toys? Puppet theaters? Playrooms? Friendly librarians? :swoon
post #58 of 103
I guess I shouldn't tell you ladies about my local libraries :

I haven't had any bad experiences with our public libraries, the funding and fundraising done here is fantastic, the large central library just got a total overhaul and now has not only a large children's section, but also a seperate teen section. Our little nearby library is tiny, but the librarians are constantly rotating the books, the staff are great with kids (I haven't seen a kid shushed in a library since I was a kid), and the kids have their own computer section with games, databases and tightly controlled internet access that all kids are encouraged to use as much as possible. Several of the staff are even hsers and will look out for books for me, or help hsers connect.

The only time I've had problems with a library lately has been, not surprisingly, the provinces dept. of education library, commonly known as the Teachers Library. It has some great stuff in it, but is almost impossible to find anything in it, other than just wandering up and down the stacks. The staff are singularily unhelpful in finding anything at all, and they not only disapprove of normal children's behavior, but they seem to feel that a child should never set foot in their facility.

Now, my sister is a teacher, and she gets the same attitude from them when she brings her own kids, so it's not just hsers that get the royal sucky treatment, but they all make it clear that they don't really approve of this "homeschooling thing". All educators who are registered with the province have access to this facilty, but I've often had to point this out to the staff who keep asking me what school I'm from, or where ds will be using the material (since home is obviously not an approved learning facility.) The worst thing about the staff there, I think, is that they have succeeded in intimidating and chasing off many teachers who try to use the facility. My sis thinks only about 1/4 of the provinces teachers bother to use the library, even though they can search it online and get materials delivered to their school for free. The staff has just gone so far out of their way to make the library hard to use that they are limiting even the public schools students access to a LOT of material.

I live down the street from the library, and I find it totally funny how much ds freaks them out, so I have spent a lot of time there, but I know very few other hsers who've bothered. It's a shame, because they have not just school books, but toys, games, manipulatives, movies, kits, all sorts of great stuff and out of town hsers could get the same free delivery that public schools get. Since Mb is so spread out, for some rural people, a trip to the library might mean a plane trip, or a dangerous 10 hour drive on a lake road through bush. Having this service would be indispensible for them. Too bad the staff have to make it so hard and useless, sigh.
post #59 of 103
Amazing how it varies from place to place. Some years back, my son and another couple of teens at the time sat on a panel with their moms for a large roomful of youth librarians who were there to find out more about what homeschoolers would like to see in the way of services from libraries. They were really wonderful and open-minded about everything they heard. It was put on by an association of youth librarians in the San Francisco Bay area. Very impressive. - Lillian
post #60 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthiegirl View Post
I hear lots of negatives about our local librarians, but have not had any bad experiences yet (knock on wood). There is one librarian who is particularly stern and we try to avoid her.

Our town is growing, but the library has not kept pace. It is too small, lacks a good selection of books, has NO audio recordings for kids, it is packed in the afternoons with kids doing homework -- and yet everyone seems to do just fine all squished in there. We try to go in the mornings when I know it is not as crowded and my kids will be better behaved.

But really, the library needs a multi-million dollar overhaul.

I am so jealous of some of the libraries I read described here. Cafes? Toys? Puppet theaters? Playrooms? Friendly librarians? :swoon


We just moved to a new town, and the library here is this way too. They have one (!) low shelf of non-fiction adult books (the rest are romance serials), the kids section is four shelves of mostly tv-books (dora, barbies, bob the builder, etc). They actually have a surprising number/variety of non-fiction kids books, but most are soooo outdated. It makes me sad, I want to support our local library, but really, we only go because it's a nice walk to get there. Usually we just check out a movie. For books, we go to the library near my mom.

OP, I think it's wonderful that your daughter is so comfortable using a computer. My oldest is nearly 4.5yo, and she is just starting to show an interest. It amazes me how quickly she has figured out both the manipulation of the computer and how to get through the games she plays. I had no idea she had such a grasp of phonics, letters, numbers, etc.
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